Where's The RLA Rage? Backroom Deal?

[FedEx courier]

Looks like the FAA rhetoric is still running strong, check out brownbailout, they haven't given up at all. They still seem very unsure about it. Vantexan was a lost cause a long time ago, he's been preaching about the bad economy from the Fox news pulpit for months. The good cop bad cop routine "vantexan" plays is as transparent as his motives.

 

[vantexan]

Looks like the FAA rhetoric is still running strong, check out brownbailout, they haven't given up at all. They still seem very unsure about it. Vantexan was a lost cause a long time ago, he's been preaching about the bad economy from the Fox news pulpit for months. The good cop bad cop routine "vantexan" plays is as transparent as his motives.

LOL, all I'm saying is watch what happens when a union insists on UPS pay and benefits. Before it's over you'll wish you had been willing to meet them halfway. It's absolutely unrealistic to believe you can add billions annually to their costs, dry up their savings and take all their profit for the employees and not expect them to completely overhaul the company, possibly getting rid of Express all together. That's not fearmongering, that's reality. The one thing that matters most to them is the stock price. No profit, no dividends, the stock tanks. They won't let that happen, it's about the money. You are kidding yourself otherwise. I'm not playing good/bad anything, just telling you what you don't want to hear. But if there's an alternative reality where they can pay great pay and benefits and still maintain profits, dividends, and the stock price please tell me how to get there. But hey, I'm just a courier, what do I know? You've obviously run the numbers, have the facts, there's no pulling the wool over your eyes. Good luck!

 

[vantexan]

Looks like the FAA rhetoric is still running strong, check out brownbailout, they haven't given up at all. They still seem very unsure about it. Vantexan was a lost cause a long time ago, he's been preaching about the bad economy from the Fox news pulpit for months. The good cop bad cop routine "vantexan" plays is as transparent as his motives.

P.S. I'm going to vote no on the union if FedEx offers to top me out. If they don't I'm going to vote yes on the union. Good cop/bad cop, gotta love it!

 

[grgrcr88]

lol, all i'm saying is watch what happens when a union insists on ups pay and benefits. Before it's over you'll wish you had been willing to meet them halfway. It's absolutely unrealistic to believe you can add billions annually to their costs, dry up their savings and take all their profit for the employees and not expect them to completely overhaul the company, possibly getting rid of express all together. That's not fearmongering, that's reality. The one thing that matters most to them is the stock price. No profit, no dividends, the stock tanks. They won't let that happen, it's about the money. You are kidding yourself otherwise. I'm not playing good/bad anything, just telling you what you don't want to hear. But if there's an alternative reality where they can pay great pay and benefits and still maintain profits, dividends, and the stock price please tell me how to get there. But hey, i'm just a courier, what do i know? You've obviously run the numbers, have the facts, there's no pulling the wool over your eyes. Good luck!

we call it ups!!!!

 

[Ricochet1a]

P.S. I'm going to vote no on the union if FedEx offers to top me out. If they don't I'm going to vote yes on the union. Good cop/bad cop, gotta love it!

The scenario you put up is PROHIBITED by federal law. FedEx (or any company) cannot offer any form of quid pro quo for a employee's union vote. What FedEx can do is offer everyone an increase in pay without any strings attached - which is what will happen should the change in voting definitions stand any litigation from Delta and Express.

I'll guarantee you this, Express won't "top-out" ANYONE in an attempt to ward off unionization. If they did this, they'd have to top out EVERY job classification within FedEx. They'd be moving more that half of the way toward what a union contract would be attempting to get. Fred will offer probably a couple of bucks an hour more to the Couriers, RTDs, Mechanics and CSAs - no more. Even that he won't be at all pleased about.

You seem to think that the battle can be won without any fight ever taking place. This is incorrect. FedEx will fight every step of the way and it won't be until Express operations are shutdown by a strike that Fred will even begin to compromise. It will take a strike, it is going to get ugly and FedEx will amp up its campaign against its employees in the process.

So I guess that since Fred isn't going to offer to top out all employees to ward off unionization, you're going to vote yes in the even of a certification process? Would you sign a union card at the right time? Before a vote even takes place, enough union cards have to be signed to allow - presumably the Teamsters - to petition for a union certification vote to even take place.

Collective bargaining can't take place if every employee takes a position of only being willing to strike for just what meets their minimum requirements. The union position is determined by consensus of all employee demands. Then the minumum acceptable terms are determined by what can be agreed upon by at least 50% of the covered employees. If employees decide to opt out of collective bargaining and a strike if they are offered what meets their minimum needs, then the union will fail. This is a prime employer tactic, offer just enough to the employees so that enough of the employees don't approve a strike vote or cross a picket line to get what the company is offering. It is called COLLECTIVE bargaining for a reason.

Go try to bargain for a change in compensation right now as an individual and report back your results and success story....

 

[vantexan]

The scenario you put up is PROHIBITED by federal law. FedEx (or any company) cannot offer any form of quid pro quo for a employee's union vote. What FedEx can do is offer everyone an increase in pay without any strings attached - which is what will happen should the change in voting definitions stand any litigation from Delta and Express.

I'll guarantee you this, Express won't "top-out" ANYONE in an attempt to ward off unionization. If they did this, they'd have to top out EVERY job classification within FedEx. They'd be moving more that half of the way toward what a union contract would be attempting to get. Fred will offer probably a couple of bucks an hour more to the Couriers, RTDs, Mechanics and CSAs - no more. Even that he won't be at all pleased about.

You seem to think that the battle can be won without any fight ever taking place. This is incorrect. FedEx will fight every step of the way and it won't be until Express operations are shutdown by a strike that Fred will even begin to compromise. It will take a strike, it is going to get ugly and FedEx will amp up its campaign against its employees in the process.

So I guess that since Fred isn't going to offer to top out all employees to ward off unionization, you're going to vote yes in the even of a certification process? Would you sign a union card at the right time? Before a vote even takes place, enough union cards have to be signed to allow - presumably the Teamsters - to petition for a union certification vote to even take place.

Collective bargaining can't take place if every employee takes a position of only being willing to strike for just what meets their minimum requirements. The union position is determined by consensus of all employee demands. Then the minumum acceptable terms are determined by what can be agreed upon by at least 50% of the covered employees. If employees decide to opt out of collective bargaining and a strike if they are offered what meets their minimum needs, then the union will fail. This is a prime employer tactic, offer just enough to the employees so that enough of the employees don't approve a strike vote or cross a picket line to get what the company is offering. It is called COLLECTIVE bargaining for a reason.

Go try to bargain for a change in compensation right now as an individual and report back your results and success story....

I'm talking generally, if FedEx announces that they are going to top us out faster, maybe raise top out a bit, I will vote no if a union vote comes about. If they offer that much and still a union is advocated with the rhetoric of getting even more then yes I will vote against a union. If FedEx makes a minimal offer then I will go with the union. But don't kid yourself. If the union pushes for UPS comparable pay and benefits it will set things in motion for major changes in how the company operates. And for all of the employees who live paycheck to paycheck, how are they going to survive a strike?

 

[vantexan]

Here's some reality. FedEx doesn't have enough people to adequately cover their business right now. Couriers are still quitting, even in the midst of a recession because the job and wages suck. There is no future for anyone who is an hourly under the present wage and benefit plans. This has nothing to do with entitlement programs. I'm sure the Tea Bag set will try to paint any changes to the RLA or the RLA exemption as an attack on the Free Market. Whatever. Guess what the biggest entitlements are anyway? Social Security and Medicare, neither of which the conservatives realize are entitlement programs of which most of these oldsters are the primary beneficiaries. Perhaps they are too stupid to figure it out, so they'll have to wait for Rush and Beck to fill them with the "truth". Sad.

Here's a dose of reality...all the states with large social programs are hurting, all the states that have been frugal, much less so. Compare California with Texas, it's laughable. And European socialism is teetering on the brink of disaster. Wow, live in Greece, retire with full gov't pension at 53. With many other perks. Guess what? It doesn't work. And a number of other large countries there are in danger of failing too. And President Obama wants that for all of us. Could be those crazy old Tea Party folk are concerned that everything they've worked hard for, including Social Security and Medicaid, are about to go up in smoke. Oh, by the way, the GAO announced today that the real cost of the new Health Care law will be 1 trillion dollars. A whole lot more than we were told. And guess how they want to pay for all this? A VAT tax. Countries have a VAT in place of an income tax. Obama wants a VAT on top of our income tax! Better hope we get $30hr, we'll need it! FOX spin? Prove me wrong! With the truth!

 

[Ricochet1a]

I'm talking generally, if FedEx announces that they are going to top us out faster, maybe raise top out a bit, I will vote no if a union vote comes about. If they offer that much and still a union is advocated with the rhetoric of getting even more then yes I will vote against a union. If FedEx makes a minimal offer then I will go with the union. But don't kid yourself. If the union pushes for UPS comparable pay and benefits it will set things in motion for major changes in how the company operates. And for all of the employees who live paycheck to paycheck, how are they going to survive a strike?

What makes you think that ANYTHING FedEx states it is going to do is going to 'stick' for any period of time? You must either be very trusting or have a memory deficit. FedEx does at it pleases, when it pleases, with its employees since the employees don't have a binding contract to prevent any such ploys by Fred.

Fred could announce tomorrow that starting in 2011 - pending no union certification - that top out times will be reduced to 6 years. Would you take him at his word? Fred could announce annual payraises of $1/hr for the next ten years - pending no union certification... Would you actually believe that he'd follow through on that, or he'd find a convenient excuse - such as the sun rising in the east - to get out of that promise?

FedEx wll make a 'minimal offer', it will be real minimal and there would be no way to ensure that the wage stagnation that has been standard fare at Express would end. Fred's 'promises' to the wage employees aren't even worth the cost to print them up and place them in an employee handbook - he'll change them whenever he thinks he can get away with it and not have a mass walkout. He gutted the pension plan and got away with that - what would lead you to think he'll stop there? He's paying Ground drivers the equivalent of $12/hr - that is fair compensation in his mind. Do you want to let him keep on stagnating Express compensation so that Express is compensated on the same levels as Ground?

At this point, still trusting FedEx outside a contract is insanity. I don't know what you are so fearful of. Going through life being fearful is no way to live. Gather up some 'intestinal fortitude' and make a decision to put an end to the games of FedEx. I said many months ago that there will be leaders in this effort and sheep. You have clearly identified yourself as being one of the latter - which is fine. I have never lived my life being a sheep and refuse to allow myself to have that mindset. It takes all kinds to make a world, it takes leadership to change the world. Playing it 'safe' won't get you anywhere but where you are at right now, undercompensated and having no means to have any say in your income. The most important freedom we all have is the freedom to say 'NO!', don't be afraid to tell Fred NO!

With the experience of many years in the military I can tell you this: Lead, Follow or Get out of the Way. You seem to be a follower, which is fine. Let those that have the intestinal fortitude to lead get things accomplished and then you can make the decision whether or not to take any personal risk in the outcome. You may want to spend some time reading Thomas Paine, especially The American Crisis... Don't be a 'sunshine patriot', stick with the cause even at the risk of personal loss, you'll be a better person for it and have just a little more pride in yourself as a result.

 

[bbsam]

Still looking for the leaders in this effort. So far I see sheep and very loud bleeting sheep. J/K

 

[MrFedEx]

Still looking for the leaders in this effort. So far I see sheep and very loud bleeting sheep. J/K

Until the law is in effect and cards start getting signed, it's still very dangerous to be talking about unions. Even though we all know what's going-on and it's the #1 topic of conversation, management won't answer any questions or even acknowledge a potential change in RLA voting.

If you had ever worked under the Smith regime, you'd understand why people are fearful of getting the ball rolling. That's where the Teamsters come-in.

 

[MrFedEx]

Here's a dose of reality...all the states with large social programs are hurting, all the states that have been frugal, much less so. Compare California with Texas, it's laughable. And European socialism is teetering on the brink of disaster. Wow, live in Greece, retire with full gov't pension at 53. With many other perks. Guess what? It doesn't work. And a number of other large countries there are in danger of failing too. And President Obama wants that for all of us. Could be those crazy old Tea Party folk are concerned that everything they've worked hard for, including Social Security and Medicaid, are about to go up in smoke. Oh, by the way, the GAO announced today that the real cost of the new Health Care law will be 1 trillion dollars. A whole lot more than we were told. And guess how they want to pay for all this? A VAT tax. Countries have a VAT in place of an income tax. Obama wants a VAT on top of our income tax! Better hope we get $30hr, we'll need it! FOX spin? Prove me wrong! With the truth!

Sounds like Fox/Tea Party crazy talk to me. I've always given you credit for being smarter than that..until now. It sounds like you're starting to view things from a corporatist/libertarian perspective, which is exactly the way Fred would like you to think. How about Brownbailout.com? Are UPS and the IBT conspiring to attack poor little Free Market Freddie, or is UPS just trying to level the competitive playing field and take-away Smith's distinct advantage? It really sounds like you want to continue being Fred's doormat and are really on his side after all. Make-up your mind already.

 

[bbsam]

Sounds like Fox/Tea Party crazy talk to me. I've always given you credit for being smarter than that..until now. It sounds like you're starting to view things from a corporatist/libertarian perspective, which is exactly the way Fred would like you to think. How about Brownbailout.com? Are UPS and the IBT conspiring to attack poor little Free Market Freddie, or is UPS just trying to level the competitive playing field and take-away Smith's distinct advantage? It really sounds like you want to continue being Fred's doormat and are really on his side after all. Make-up your mind already.

I think he's considering the "enemy's" strategic and tactical positions and possible venue's of attack and whether or not the battle is worth engaging or if he'll end up as canon fodder. For some the coming changes to the RLA are enough. For others being classified under the NLRA is required. That it is good enough for you and Ricochet doesn't mean it's worth it for everybody. And yes, I'm sure Fred takes all that into consideration as he goes forth as well.

 

[vantexan]

What makes you think that ANYTHING FedEx states it is going to do is going to 'stick' for any period of time? You must either be very trusting or have a memory deficit. FedEx does at it pleases, when it pleases, with its employees since the employees don't have a binding contract to prevent any such ploys by Fred.

Fred could announce tomorrow that starting in 2011 - pending no union certification - that top out times will be reduced to 6 years. Would you take him at his word? Fred could announce annual payraises of $1/hr for the next ten years - pending no union certification... Would you actually believe that he'd follow through on that, or he'd find a convenient excuse - such as the sun rising in the east - to get out of that promise?

FedEx wll make a 'minimal offer', it will be real minimal and there would be no way to ensure that the wage stagnation that has been standard fare at Express would end. Fred's 'promises' to the wage employees aren't even worth the cost to print them up and place them in an employee handbook - he'll change them whenever he thinks he can get away with it and not have a mass walkout. He gutted the pension plan and got away with that - what would lead you to think he'll stop there? He's paying Ground drivers the equivalent of $12/hr - that is fair compensation in his mind. Do you want to let him keep on stagnating Express compensation so that Express is compensated on the same levels as Ground?

At this point, still trusting FedEx outside a contract is insanity. I don't know what you are so fearful of. Going through life being fearful is no way to live. Gather up some 'intestinal fortitude' and make a decision to put an end to the games of FedEx. I said many months ago that there will be leaders in this effort and sheep. You have clearly identified yourself as being one of the latter - which is fine. I have never lived my life being a sheep and refuse to allow myself to have that mindset. It takes all kinds to make a world, it takes leadership to change the world. Playing it 'safe' won't get you anywhere but where you are at right now, undercompensated and having no means to have any say in your income. The most important freedom we all have is the freedom to say 'NO!', don't be afraid to tell Fred NO!

With the experience of many years in the military I can tell you this: Lead, Follow or Get out of the Way. You seem to be a follower, which is fine. Let those that have the intestinal fortitude to lead get things accomplished and then you can make the decision whether or not to take any personal risk in the outcome. You may want to spend some time reading Thomas Paine, especially The American Crisis... Don't be a 'sunshine patriot', stick with the cause even at the risk of personal loss, you'll be a better person for it and have just a little more pride in yourself as a result.

Do we live in a vacuum? If FedEx announced such changes and reneged it would be a huge PR debacle. They'd have to start hiring ex-convicts to get people to work for them. And if the courts uphold the RLA rule change then it will be there for us to use to unionize if they don't keep their word. But what really gets me is the chorus here saying I'm against a union. I'm all for a union if it's responsible and gets us reasonable increases in pay and benefits. I'll put what I've done and experienced with this company up against your intestinal fortitude any day. But i'm not going to say give us UPS pay and benefits because I know exactly where that's going to lead. If you can't stand anyone not in goose step with you get over it.

 

[vantexan]

Sounds like Fox/Tea Party crazy talk to me. I've always given you credit for being smarter than that..until now. It sounds like you're starting to view things from a corporatist/libertarian perspective, which is exactly the way Fred would like you to think. How about Brownbailout.com? Are UPS and the IBT conspiring to attack poor little Free Market Freddie, or is UPS just trying to level the competitive playing field and take-away Smith's distinct advantage? It really sounds like you want to continue being Fred's doormat and are really on his side after all. Make-up your mind already.

You think a trillion dollar bailout of European socialist states is FOX/Tea Party crazy talk? Why do you think the Greeks are rioting? In order to get the $144 billion IMF bailout the Greek gov't had to agree to austerity measures including taking away all the largess. The Greek workers are outraged. What, don't follow the news? William friend. Buckley used to repeat this quote all the time: "The problem with Socialism is Socialism, the problem with Capitalism is capitalists." Socialism doesn't work, China and Russia had already proved that, Europe is now figuring it out. But as long as there are greedy capitalists screwing up what works well, socialists will keep trying to get their way. Good luck with that, when you get utopia let me know.

 

[bbsam]

Actually, China's on a ROAR.

 

[MrFedEx]

Actually, China's on a ROAR.

Yep. China's about to go under at any minute. I'm surprised he didn't call them "Chi-coms",
which is the term Limbaugh always uses

 

[UPSSOCKS]

I feel bad for Fed-Ex.... A union will slowly destroy their company and ruin anything good they have.......

 

[MrFedEx]

I feel bad for Fed-Ex.... A union will slowly destroy their company and ruin anything good they have.......

Just like UPS? I''ll take your wages and benefits in return for a "ruined" company any day. Let's see, which company is more profitable? Oops, that would be UPS. How is that with there being a horrible union in the house? UPS is also famous for it's cash reserves. How did they save so much money when the IBT was draining them dry? Like most critics, I'm guessing you don't have a clue what it's like to work at FedEx. Before you even ask, I have worked for both.

 

[bbsam]

yeah, me too.

 

[vantexan]

Yep. China's about to go under at any minute. I'm surprised he didn't call them "Chi-coms",
which is the term Limbaugh always uses

And if they do they won't be able to continue to buy our bonds. Where does that leave us? And where does that leave FedEx, which depends very much on growth in China? I keep forgetting, FedEx can have less business here, less business overseas, buy a fleet of planes, etc etc and STILL pay UPS pay and benefits! Hasn't been a miracle like that since Jesus fed the multitudes with a few fish and loaves of bread.