Why???

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
Sorry, But we have to watch like hawks. We've been burned before.

Yes!!!
Watch like a hawk in the upcoming weeks.
Read and reread, ask questions.
Educate yourself and VOTE!!!
Trust me, if it's a dog, I will vote no.
Up until now it was Hoffa and Hall engaged in negotiations with the company.
NOW it is our turn.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
d
The players have shaken hands and walked away from the poker table. They have agreed to the terms and now wait for us to say yay or nay. Disclosing what they both agreed upon isnt going to change what we will be voting for and more importantly it would not be disclosing anything that UPS hasn't already agreed to.

I cant speak for your area, but my Local (162 Portland, OR) has scheduled a special contract proposal meeting for Saturday the 18th. At that meeting, our local leadership will offer a powerpoint presentation where every line of the new offer will be shown on an overhead projector, side-by-side with the current language so that all the changes will be highlighted for questions and discussion by the membership. After that, I expect it will be a minimum of 3 weeks before ballots are even mailed out, and a couple of weeks more before they are due to be turned in. Bottom line; nobody is hiding anything. The information about the new offer will be made available to us in a timely manner, and we will have ample time to read it, discuss it, ask about it and make our own decisions about it prior to casting our ballot. The current agreement doesnt even expire for 3 more months, and the tentative agreement was only reached 4 business days ago. My guess...is that the people who are the most vocal about demanding every last detail of the new offer NOW have already decided how they are going to vote anyway, and they are just looking for more out-of-context facts to bash Hoffa and Hall with.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
There is no need to summon our elected local officials anywhere. You can easily and (more cheaply) Skype, Facetime, Video conference calls, email to the locals, Powerpoint Presentatations, etc etc to get the TA in the hands of the membership. If the IBT can't use technology to inform the membership, how the hell can they negotiate the use of technology in the Master Agreement.

Ok chief, but I only said summons them to a meeting which could be as you describe.
Unfortunately I doubt my local is equipped for such a meeting.
Either way, it is a long accepted practice to take it to the local who in turn takes it to the members.

We used to sheet our deliveries on paper, that too was a long accepted practice. It's 2013 each Full Time employee pays overs $960 year in Dues. The IBT can send you a text message every time Little Jimmy is going to make a TV appearance. But can't seem to do the same with the TA...

The scope of this process is far too complicated to complete via Skype, conference call or Facetime, though they surely can and will aid it along the way.
Different areas will have different supplements and nuances to local and regional issues.
Given the enormity of this undertaking, getting everybody in the same room seems prudent to me.
Perhaps we can reinvent the wheel on another day.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
I wish the membership would have demanded the same level of information before voting in the 2012 Presidential election.
Ignorance is not always bliss.


Ignorance certainly seems to be bliss for blue collar, union truck drivers who think the Republicans have their best interests at heart.
 
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satellitedriver

Moderator
Ignorance certainly seems to be bliss for blue collar, union truck drivers who think the Republicans have their best interests at heart.
The unions pushed for the blue collar/union truck driver membership to vote democrat, and they did.
After 2017, UPS UNION drivers will have to pay a 40% tax, to Obamacare, for the $20,000.00 that UPS pays in healthcare premiums, via line 12 on their W2 form.
5 short years from now, each driver will have to set aside at least $154.00 a week to pay the government their "fair share", to cover obambacare.
Hell, union members are willing to call a strike when the company asked members to pay $90.00 a week for healthcare.

So, I stand by my original statement that ignorance is not always bliss.
 

3 done 3 to go

In control of own destiny
Because I pay 82 dollars per month for representation, and I. want to know how we are going to be compensated, and how we are handling overtime language, and harassment language. Isnt that why we have a union? If not why do I pay dues, just for the hourly wage? Why, tell me is that too much to ask for. As a paying dues member, I am entitled, no one gave me a damn thing. Entitled to me is a person who expects something for nothing, just because they be, I am entitled since I pay for it. Now details.................I cannot believe you would ask another union member, that question.

I wish the membership would have demanded the same level of information before voting in the 2012 Presidential election.
Ignorance is not always bliss.


Yes!!!
Watch like a hawk in the upcoming weeks.
Read and reread, ask questions.
Educate yourself and VOTE!!!
Trust me, if it's a dog, I will vote no.
Up until now it was Hoffa and Hall engaged in negotiations with the company.
NOW it is our turn.

I'm just scared the vote is rigged. Just like the national elections. Can we vote 6 times too. Vote counted in Chicago
 

InsideUPS

Well-Known Member
I'm just scared the vote is rigged. Just like the national elections. Can we vote 6 times too. Vote counted in Chicago

If the contract goes the way you or I voted....then it is NOT rigged. If however the contract goes against how we voted....then it IS rigged..

In all seriousness.... unless the healthcare packages are somehow less than what we have now.... I do not see how this contract cannot pass. Non-economic issues....are in reality...non-issues for the most part. The wage and pension increases would easily be considered fair by today's standards.

The Wall Street era is upon us at UPS and it is not going away...regardless of what harassment language is presented. Harassment is based on how well you get along with your supervisor or manager. Language is NOT going to make that person go away. Long hours....not going away.... pay penalties maybe...but UPS has deep pockets and understands the value of knowing that less routes outweighs the "penalties". UPS knows that greater work loads equals greater productivity....after all.. every driver wants his day to end...and what better way to make it end sooner than by working faster? Turnover....UPS thrives on turnover... lower pay...fewer vacations...etc...

Plain and simple....UPS as us "old timers" knew it is gone and is never coming back. Full-time 30+ year retirements are "yesteryear".. UPS has an endless supply of workers that can walk into the job and do the same for less at anytime. Wise UPS employees will understand that our job is a marathon and is "subject to change". Learning to live with less, investing, and possibly diversifying your job opportunities (such as a side business) is a strategy that I would consider if I were just starting my career at UPS.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
UPS as us "old timers" knew it is gone ... Learning to live with less, investing, and possibly diversifying your job opportunities (such as a side business) is a strategy that I would consider if I were just starting my career at UPS.

This is something I noticed over the years in the management ranks as well.
​As UPS cutback on management compensation, the number of management with side "jobs" increased dramatically.
I don't think it is as prevalent in on-car sups but elsewhere, it is very common now.
The number of retail shops, restaurants, services, etc that have a UPS connection has grown exponentially in the last 15 years.
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
The unions pushed for the blue collar/union truck driver membership to vote democrat, and they did.
After 2017, UPS UNION drivers will have to pay a 40% tax, to Obamacare, for the $20,000.00 that UPS pays in healthcare premiums, via line 12 on their W2 form.
5 short years from now, each driver will have to set aside at least $154.00 a week to pay the government their "fair share", to cover obambacare.
Hell, union members are willing to call a strike when the company asked members to pay $90.00 a week for healthcare.

So, I stand by my original statement that ignorance is not always bliss.

You guys have posted this crap ad nauseum for months now. So I won't continue to argue against right wing scare tactics. What I will do is ask you to do one simple thing so you can prove your point, once and for all: please post a link from a legitimate source that says, SPECIFICALLY, where we will be required to pay a 40% tax beginning in the year 2017. And by legitimate web site, I don't mean Newmax, Rush Limbaugh's web site or The Drudge Report. I want to see something that cites FACTS, not ugly, paranoid rumors. If you can't show us some facts, then save us all the time, and call Glenn Beck's nutty world to repeat your BS.
 

swen

Member
Does the word "elected" mean anything to you Bubblehead? As a shop steward you are required to appease your members that put you into the position. Dont like it..resign. Bad enough this bunch of losers are selling us down the road and debasing us in front of the company by sweeping greavances under the rug on a monthly basis, but for you to take an attitude is unbecoming of a shop steward. YOU are required to submit the details to your members. YOU are required to go out of the way to find out what you can for YOUR members. Cause after this disaster of a contract is put to ink, the reigning heirarchy of this union will be back to their original jobs..delivering packages, driving feeders, or cleaning buildings. Its a shame the way our union has failed us. And this is 25 years of "entitlement" talking...Ive seen it all. And whats transpiring is a shame and unbecoming of what this union was built on.
 

InsideUPS

Well-Known Member
You guys have posted this crap ad nauseum for months now. So I won't continue to argue against right wing scare tactics. What I will do is ask you to do one simple thing so you can prove your point, once and for all: please post a link from a legitimate source that says, SPECIFICALLY, where we will be required to pay a 40% tax beginning in the year 2017. And by legitimate web site, I don't mean Newmax, Rush Limbaugh's web site or The Drudge Report. I want to see something that cites FACTS, not ugly, paranoid rumors. If you can't show us some facts, then save us all the time, and call Glenn Beck's nutty world to repeat your BS.

Comments, criticism, input?...

ObamaCare Taxes That (may) Effect the 98%
• 40% Excise Tax "Cadillac" on Premium Health Insurance Plans 2018

ObamaCare Tax: Full List of ObamaCare Taxes

Appears to be "Obama Friendly" site....
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
Comments, criticism, input?...

ObamaCare Taxes That (may) Effect the 98%
• 40% Excise Tax "Cadillac" on Premium Health Insurance Plans 2018

ObamaCare Tax: Full List of ObamaCare Taxes

Appears to be "Obama Friendly" site....

And like most things repeated by flamethrowers, a fragment of the truth becomes the big story. Read that paragraph again and tell me what it really says. It says an excise tax of 40% applies to the portion of most employee sponsored health coverage that EXCEEDS--repeat, EXCEEDS--$10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families a year. And that doesn't count dental and vision benefits. I have a family of six, and we used our insurance quite a bit. On my W2, on line 12, the amount was $11,428.57. That is a long way away from $27,500. And what the satellite driver also doesn't tell you, is that the family or individual DOES NOT pay the excise tax. The insurance company does. And, yes, perhaps costs will get passed on through higher premiums.

But two things: first, companies don't need a tax to raise the cost of insurance to employees. Where has the outrage been, before Obamacare, when the health care industry consistently jacked up prices? Health care costs have been skyrocketing for years. We never seemed to hear much yacking from the right when that was happening. But when a Democratic President--a black one at that, EGADS!!--signed a form of universal coverage for all Americans, that's when the termites flew out of the plywood.

Second, the 40% excise tax only affects the portion OVER the $10,200 and $27,500. Conservatives always used this slight of hand when discussing tax increases on the wealthy. For example, a theoretical tax increase on people making $250,000 only affects the amount OVER $250,000. But you never hear that little nugget. Big surprise, huh?

So when Mr. Satellite says each driver must save $154 a week to cover the costs, he is either ignorant, or a liar. So which is it?
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
So when Mr. Satellite says each driver must save $154 a week to cover the costs, he is either ignorant, or a liar. So which is it?


I will go with about 10 times more intelligent than you and about 1/100th of a BSer as you.

He has proven over the years to be a thoughtful, intelligent person that does not let groupthink cloud his judgments.

​You should pick your fights more wisely.
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
I will go with about 10 times more intelligent than you and about 1/100th of a BSer as you.

He has proven over the years to be a thoughtful, intelligent person that does not let groupthink cloud his judgments.

​You should pick your fights more wisely.

If you're equating groupthink with Republican talking points, I agree. Vastly more intelligent than me, and 99 times less of a BSer than me.

And tell Glenn Beck and the puppet theater I said hi!

I promise to pick my fights more wisely next time. I feel better, how about you? Wow, that was intimidating.
 

realbrown1

Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
If you're equating groupthink with Republican talking points, I agree. Vastly more intelligent than me, and 99 times less of a BSer than me.

And tell Glenn Beck and the puppet theater I said hi!

I promise to pick my fights more wisely next time. I feel better, how about you? Wow, that was intimidating.
Drac's right. The tax only aplies to cadilac plans. Our is good, but doesn't fall into the cadilac tax. You guys should get off bc once in a while and live life. Seems like you are on here 24/7.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
And like most things repeated by flamethrowers, a fragment of the truth becomes the big story. Read that paragraph again and tell me what it really says. It says an excise tax of 40% applies to the portion of most employee sponsored health coverage that EXCEEDS--repeat, EXCEEDS--$10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families a year. And that doesn't count dental and vision benefits. I have a family of six, and we used our insurance quite a bit. On my W2, on line 12, the amount was $11,428.57. That is a long way away from $27,500. And what the satellite driver also doesn't tell you, is that the family or individual DOES NOT pay the excise tax. The insurance company does. And, yes, perhaps costs will get passed on through higher premiums. But two things: first, companies don't need a tax to raise the cost of insurance to employees. Where has the outrage been, before Obamacare, when the health care industry consistently jacked up prices? Health care costs have been skyrocketing for years. We never seemed to hear much yacking from the right when that was happening. But when a Democratic President--a black one at that, EGADS!!--signed a form of universal coverage for all Americans, that's when the termites flew out of the plywood. Second, the 40% excise tax only affects the portion OVER the $10,200 and $27,500. Conservatives always used this slight of hand when discussing tax increases on the wealthy. For example, a theoretical tax increase on people making $250,000 only affects the amount OVER $250,000. But you never hear that little nugget. Big surprise, huh? So when Mr.Satellite says each driver must save $154 a week to cover the costs, he is either ignorant, or a liar. So which is it?
I will go with about 10 times more intelligent than you and about 1/100th of a BSer as you. He has proven over the years to be a thoughtful, intelligent person that does not let groupthink cloud his judgments. ​You should pick your fights more wisely.
So let me get this straight Agitater3, you take this one sentence out of context of the entire post and discussion, then attempt to use it as a springboard to declare Satellite 10 times smarter and 1/100 of a BSer?
I respect Satellite but realize that his past thoughtfulness and your combined perception of his intelligence does not negate the fact that Dracula debunked his position within the discussion using the resources provided.
Seems pretty smart to me?
Also seems that you declare anybody with a conflicting viewpoint to that of your own as "grouptinkers".
When you are dealing with employees that are united under a collective bargaining agreement, I would expect a degree of "groupthink".
 
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