apwa
- Thread starter rjwagner669
- Start date
wily_old_vet
Well-Known Member
30andout said:
Assumption on your part that I am part of CS, I'm not. The plan I belong to is predominantly UPS so if they were to start giving the pension money to APWA I don't think that the plan would survive or if it did the montly payout would be too low to survive on. Thanks so much for your caring attitude.
To everyone else, I strongly recommend that you max out your 401k contributions so that if your pension goes down the tube you will still have something to fall back on. It will hurt at first but you can adjust to it. It's better than having the uncertainty of wondering whether your pension will be there or if it will go away after you have retired.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
ups79 said:
I think OK called it a day. I spoke with him via PM in late January after he got back from a vacation in the Sunnyland of Mickeyworld and he indicated then he was gonna take a break. I have no reason to believe at this point he's posting under a new name. At best he may be reading and lurking but he may not even be doing that. I know you had your differences and I had mine with him as well but I found him to really be a OK (no pun intended) sort off in the PM world.
The one thing we all have to keep squarely in our minds is we're all full of it anyway. What sane, rational person would waste their time pontificating here anyway!
Once you realize that and that we're all full of it and what we say may have more to do with stirring the pot than anything else, then talking with people one on one and realizing you do have much in common, then you just don't get to wrapped up in it all. Overall, I think this crazy collection of us "have no life at all" people are pretty good folks. Some are just more fun to poke a stick at from time to time!
be good bud!
wily_old_vet
Well-Known Member
30andout said:Wiley I don't claim to have all the answers but even if APWA gets in I think other pension plans have to pay. If not I am screwed worse than I already am.
They can only pay if they have funds coming in to pay with.
tieguy
Banned
Its not my place to say who should represent you folks but a little competition and a venue for others to compete for the right to represent you can not be all bad and is probably good on the accountability side. If nothing else this issue has forced all of us to become a little bit more educated than we previously were on the retirement issue. Myself included. 
nospinzone
Well-Known Member
Heres another point of discussion: Productivity within any corporation is increased when the work environment is non-threatening and everyone has the same goal. Why is it that the relationship between labor and management must be a contentious one with both parties constantly pulling in the opposite direction? Would it not be better for all parties to work TOGETHER to accomplish the common goal of improving the service provided to the customer at a competitive price? As opposed to the IBT agenda which is dictated by members other than UPS'rs, the APWA agenda would be focused and of a single mind-set: to improve the working environment of the UPS EMPLOYEE which would include the working relationship with managament. In addition to maintaining a strong contract, APWA could work with managment in good faith to remove this contention so that in the end, work is just work and not a constant war.....thus improving everyones quality of life.
Yes,,,,these ideas are exactly that, idealistic..but this is how the rest of the commercial world works. Why cant a UPS/APWA partnership adopt this model? There are people in this world that can say that they love their job........Why not us?
Nospin
Yes,,,,these ideas are exactly that, idealistic..but this is how the rest of the commercial world works. Why cant a UPS/APWA partnership adopt this model? There are people in this world that can say that they love their job........Why not us?
Nospin
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wkmac
Well-Known Member
No argument from me. I've always questioned the fact that the IBT also represented what in effect was the competition along with us and in that respect how could they truly go in and fight for our true best interest as UPSers. I also believe you have to walk into this thing with "EYES WIDE OPEN" as UPS is a business and the interest of the business and the interest of the employee are not always the same thing. This is not a UPS only deal as it's anywhere you go you'll find this.
In some of the craft trades they have in effect what is a "no-strike" clause because if a contract comes to an impass, all the books get thrown wide open and an independent arbitrator decides how everything gets settled and both parties are bound by it. I often wonder what UPS would give up for a situation like that because in turn they could pull a huge advantage away from the competition? Nice Fat Secure Pension with early outs? Nice pay increases? And I say that in the belief that the current contract has nice pay increases considering the situation at the time the contract was agreed. (Nobody foresaw what oil has done.) Very clear and definite language in the contract on employee relations and management adherence to the contract language with very strict economic processes for violations? What else might they give up for that no strike Holy Grail?
Majority of UPSers, both hourly and management work and play nice together. It's a small minority in both camps that make life horrible for the rest. Maybe we should have contract language that when these people surface we can take them immediately out and boot them from our lives!
Do that and 99.99999999% of all the problems would disappear.
JMO.
In some of the craft trades they have in effect what is a "no-strike" clause because if a contract comes to an impass, all the books get thrown wide open and an independent arbitrator decides how everything gets settled and both parties are bound by it. I often wonder what UPS would give up for a situation like that because in turn they could pull a huge advantage away from the competition? Nice Fat Secure Pension with early outs? Nice pay increases? And I say that in the belief that the current contract has nice pay increases considering the situation at the time the contract was agreed. (Nobody foresaw what oil has done.) Very clear and definite language in the contract on employee relations and management adherence to the contract language with very strict economic processes for violations? What else might they give up for that no strike Holy Grail?
Majority of UPSers, both hourly and management work and play nice together. It's a small minority in both camps that make life horrible for the rest. Maybe we should have contract language that when these people surface we can take them immediately out and boot them from our lives!
Do that and 99.99999999% of all the problems would disappear.
JMO.
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
Well what do you know....
Spinzone at browncafe trying to "spin" more about the apwa.
Couldn't take the "heat" over at T-net.....????
-Bug-
Spinzone at browncafe trying to "spin" more about the apwa.
Couldn't take the "heat" over at T-net.....????
-Bug-
nospinzone
Well-Known Member
Bug,,,
The discussion on T-net inevitably devolves into name calling and lacks in substantial debate. Notice the post before yours? No expletives,,,no derogatory comments about coworkers.....only intelligent arguements on how to improve working conditions.
Nospin
The discussion on T-net inevitably devolves into name calling and lacks in substantial debate. Notice the post before yours? No expletives,,,no derogatory comments about coworkers.....only intelligent arguements on how to improve working conditions.
Nospin
brett636
Well-Known Member
nospinzone said:Bug,,,
The discussion on T-net inevitably devolves into name calling and lacks in substantial debate. Notice the post before yours? No expletives,,,no derogatory comments about coworkers.....only intelligent arguements on how to improve working conditions.
Nospin
Gee, I see very little name calling and very legitimate questions about the APWA in BUG's thread. I still believe the APWA is nothing more than a simple internet scam trying to con some money from some poor upsers who don't know any better.
While I don't see that the APWA will seriously challenge the Teamsters soon, I do hope that it will put pressure on the Teamsters and Central States to quit screwing over UPS Teamsters. I know a former Local 728 official who said they sat in shock and watched the stock market fall a few years ago and Central States held on to the high tech stocks and didn't sell them off like they were supposed to when certain investments dropped so far. A Banker friend of mine told me with what UPS was putting toward my pension, we should have been getting $4200.00 a month instead of $3000.00 a month at that time. Now this has fallen to $2700.00 month, I get to work seven extra years now because "thirty and out at any age" is gone. I am forty-seven with eight years P/T and twenty-two years full-time. The Teamsters are going to do what is good for the Teamsters Union, not what is good for the UPS Teamster. We were screwed by the union in the '97 Strike, the UPS offered pension plan was far better than what we are stuck with. Central States is like being on the Titanic, it isn't going to get any better in its present state. I used to deliver to a Corporate UPS manager on my area, he said that by law, UPS wasn't allowed to discuss the UPS Plan to us directly, they had to negotiate with the Union. The Teamsters had the Strike Vote Authorization first off, no way would they allow the members to vote for a better Pension Plan ourselves. Central States wouldn't be like it is today.
nospinzone
Well-Known Member
Name calling......TDU Pukes, crooks, scabs, suckers, pusillanimous
Brett.....APWA was in Miami yesterday, and I believe Orlando today. I believe this falls outside the realm of Mr Gores infamous internet.
Scratch....you know the details and reality all to well. All I can say is its your pension and the only people that can do something about it is the rank and file UPS'rs.
Another point of discussion in addition to pension losses: the electoral process. APWA proposes that the membership can DIRETCTLY ELECT any single officer to a postition. No slate elections. If Danny Eason, the current Sr Vice-President is not performing up to par, he can be replaced by majority vote while keeping the other officers in place. This forces each individual officer to perform his/her duties as expected by the memberhsip and bylaws or face removal in the next election. This minimizes a candidates ability to ride the coat tails of other officers or to evade the judgement of the membership at-large.
Feel free to offer pros/cons of this alternative.
Brett.....APWA was in Miami yesterday, and I believe Orlando today. I believe this falls outside the realm of Mr Gores infamous internet.
Scratch....you know the details and reality all to well. All I can say is its your pension and the only people that can do something about it is the rank and file UPS'rs.
Another point of discussion in addition to pension losses: the electoral process. APWA proposes that the membership can DIRETCTLY ELECT any single officer to a postition. No slate elections. If Danny Eason, the current Sr Vice-President is not performing up to par, he can be replaced by majority vote while keeping the other officers in place. This forces each individual officer to perform his/her duties as expected by the memberhsip and bylaws or face removal in the next election. This minimizes a candidates ability to ride the coat tails of other officers or to evade the judgement of the membership at-large.
Feel free to offer pros/cons of this alternative.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
It's funny reading these posts about our retirement and earlier today I caught part of program on the History Channel discussing the Mob and how Hoffa was connected. One of the events discussed was how Hoffa arranged a pension fund loan to none other than Fidel Castro in Cuba back in the 1950's. They pretty much laid this out as fact folks!
All politics aside. How is it that you can say this was a good and proper fudicary function on the part of Hoffa to loan money to a political figure involved in a political revolution?
I personally don't think the APWA is a threat to the IBT. What is the threat is the idea that UPSers can have their own union that looks out for their own interests. A union not containing us from what we can do as a company or what we as employees could attain for ourselves making our company stronger or better all in the interest of keeping a balanced or otherwise mediocre transportation industry segment under the control of the IBT. I often wonder if the fear of non-union trucking employers to the IBT is not so-much the higher wage and benefits commanded by union employees but rather the restrictive nature of contracts concerning flexibility of meeting the marketplace demands in order to maintain the collective balance for the IBT?
They fear the free thinking Teamster member especially a UPS one. UPS Teamsters are the economic backbone of the IBT. We know and they know it. Never forget that!
ScratchKing,
Remember the old Local 928 and how upset everyone got that UPS had their own local? BTW: Excellent comments in your post!
All politics aside. How is it that you can say this was a good and proper fudicary function on the part of Hoffa to loan money to a political figure involved in a political revolution?
I personally don't think the APWA is a threat to the IBT. What is the threat is the idea that UPSers can have their own union that looks out for their own interests. A union not containing us from what we can do as a company or what we as employees could attain for ourselves making our company stronger or better all in the interest of keeping a balanced or otherwise mediocre transportation industry segment under the control of the IBT. I often wonder if the fear of non-union trucking employers to the IBT is not so-much the higher wage and benefits commanded by union employees but rather the restrictive nature of contracts concerning flexibility of meeting the marketplace demands in order to maintain the collective balance for the IBT?
They fear the free thinking Teamster member especially a UPS one. UPS Teamsters are the economic backbone of the IBT. We know and they know it. Never forget that!
ScratchKing,
Remember the old Local 928 and how upset everyone got that UPS had their own local? BTW: Excellent comments in your post!
