G
gman
Guest
It's a Girard G! But it's a copy of Georgia, I guess.
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W
wkmac
Guest
tie,
To the "never mine" thought, after seeing what I saw last week I really don't think so. In fact, the CS rep stated everything is as it is for at least 2 years.
my2cents,
No comment was made as to real estate holdings but I left after about 2 1/2 hours because it just got to the point where some various factions within our local stated dominating the floor and engaging in political grandstanding. And let me just say this while I've kinda raised the issue. It is my personal opinion that we need to look closely at our local leaders in that we have reached a day and time where electing a local dockworker president is way past it's day. I truly believe we need to think seriously about electing folks who have a background and skill in business and law to run our locals and this may well mean electing leadership who aren't even union members. This is an area IMO we must go in order to gain access into the 21st century.
OK2BC,
Excellent points about UPS sitting on the sidelines in some cases. Although they've done absolutely nothing wrong and have met all contractual requirements they have done nothing no further that might in some cases turn the tide of opinion more their way. I will completely agree it's a complex issue and maybe not as cut and dry for UPS to go above and beyond and let's be honest UPS is a business and not here to fulfill our will and needs also. I will defend UPS in that aspect but at the same time let me pose this one question and I'll admit I don't have the answer either. Could the effort by UPS to partition the pension fund be a first step in going the extra mile for us? I think it's also fair (even though there's no proof)to say or suggest that maybe looking back now at the financials could UPS in 97' been looking to take us from the pension funds not to take control of the funds so much for economic gain but rather get us off the tracks of an on-coming trainwreck. It's also fair to say that with UPS' knowledge of the CS fund they also knew pushing CS to raise payouts would push it over the edge at some point in the future too.
UPSCORPIS pretty much summed up where we are IMO and that going forward should be the total focus.
"Figuring out the problems and dealing with them constuctively and without emotion is the only hope."
BTW:Enjoying the conversation from all and IMO it just goes to show even further my belief that the best solution for UPSer's is to let UPSer's decide their own fate seperate from everyone else. You may read into that whatever you want but I think most of you will get the point of what I really mean!
To the "never mine" thought, after seeing what I saw last week I really don't think so. In fact, the CS rep stated everything is as it is for at least 2 years.
my2cents,
No comment was made as to real estate holdings but I left after about 2 1/2 hours because it just got to the point where some various factions within our local stated dominating the floor and engaging in political grandstanding. And let me just say this while I've kinda raised the issue. It is my personal opinion that we need to look closely at our local leaders in that we have reached a day and time where electing a local dockworker president is way past it's day. I truly believe we need to think seriously about electing folks who have a background and skill in business and law to run our locals and this may well mean electing leadership who aren't even union members. This is an area IMO we must go in order to gain access into the 21st century.
OK2BC,
Excellent points about UPS sitting on the sidelines in some cases. Although they've done absolutely nothing wrong and have met all contractual requirements they have done nothing no further that might in some cases turn the tide of opinion more their way. I will completely agree it's a complex issue and maybe not as cut and dry for UPS to go above and beyond and let's be honest UPS is a business and not here to fulfill our will and needs also. I will defend UPS in that aspect but at the same time let me pose this one question and I'll admit I don't have the answer either. Could the effort by UPS to partition the pension fund be a first step in going the extra mile for us? I think it's also fair (even though there's no proof)to say or suggest that maybe looking back now at the financials could UPS in 97' been looking to take us from the pension funds not to take control of the funds so much for economic gain but rather get us off the tracks of an on-coming trainwreck. It's also fair to say that with UPS' knowledge of the CS fund they also knew pushing CS to raise payouts would push it over the edge at some point in the future too.
UPSCORPIS pretty much summed up where we are IMO and that going forward should be the total focus.
"Figuring out the problems and dealing with them constuctively and without emotion is the only hope."
BTW:Enjoying the conversation from all and IMO it just goes to show even further my belief that the best solution for UPSer's is to let UPSer's decide their own fate seperate from everyone else. You may read into that whatever you want but I think most of you will get the point of what I really mean!
M
mojobuc
Guest
Thanks.
I signed the sheet the other day, and now just wait until their is an opening. The night crew think I am insane because of the increase in 'workload and pressure' but I already know work loads and pressure.
Joined the wife in her small business (12-15k a year)and expanded it, and have already done 30k last quarter, and with customer service, IRS and state tax stuff, as well as delivering the furniture/cribs etc. long, streeful, pressure filled hours are a norm. not to mention 20 years in the moving business.
Almost looking forward to it as an opp. to 'work out' as well as make some money, and be able to see and help my kids w/ school work, and beingable to finish my schooling as well.
I signed the sheet the other day, and now just wait until their is an opening. The night crew think I am insane because of the increase in 'workload and pressure' but I already know work loads and pressure.
Joined the wife in her small business (12-15k a year)and expanded it, and have already done 30k last quarter, and with customer service, IRS and state tax stuff, as well as delivering the furniture/cribs etc. long, streeful, pressure filled hours are a norm. not to mention 20 years in the moving business.
Almost looking forward to it as an opp. to 'work out' as well as make some money, and be able to see and help my kids w/ school work, and beingable to finish my schooling as well.
E
eeriana
Guest
Tim,
UPS pays 5.10 per hour for a maximum 2080 hours til Aug 2004... then it goes up to 5.45 and it keeps going up each year.
Does that answer your question?
UPS pays 5.10 per hour for a maximum 2080 hours til Aug 2004... then it goes up to 5.45 and it keeps going up each year.
Does that answer your question?
O
ok2bclever
Guest
Wkmac,
Agreed that UPS is first and foremost in business to make money. Nothing wrong with that.
It is their rhetoric of caring about their employees that takes me in the direction that here is an excellent place to make it more than rhetoric.
BTW, today I received unverified news that perhaps they are holding the line on the benefits issue. Not valid enough to take to the bank yet though.
As far as upping the retirement stakes, not sure if they misjudged what obviously would be the union's HELL NO YOU DON'T! reaction, or whether they got exactly the reaction they were after.
I believe they did see the likely economic train wreck coming and thought to either force the union to blink (admit they couldn't afford to match it) or hasten the end and use it as a tool as subtle as a club they could use to control the union.
As far as trying to take over the pension purely for our benefit, no, I don't see that.
Pure economics will always be the main reason (and I am not one of those that thinks that's evil in and of itself, just facts), perhaps the potential ability to directly control sweetening the pot in short term windows to rid themselves of older drivers periodically was an additional carrot involved.
Agreed that UPS is first and foremost in business to make money. Nothing wrong with that.
It is their rhetoric of caring about their employees that takes me in the direction that here is an excellent place to make it more than rhetoric.
BTW, today I received unverified news that perhaps they are holding the line on the benefits issue. Not valid enough to take to the bank yet though.
As far as upping the retirement stakes, not sure if they misjudged what obviously would be the union's HELL NO YOU DON'T! reaction, or whether they got exactly the reaction they were after.
I believe they did see the likely economic train wreck coming and thought to either force the union to blink (admit they couldn't afford to match it) or hasten the end and use it as a tool as subtle as a club they could use to control the union.
As far as trying to take over the pension purely for our benefit, no, I don't see that.
Pure economics will always be the main reason (and I am not one of those that thinks that's evil in and of itself, just facts), perhaps the potential ability to directly control sweetening the pot in short term windows to rid themselves of older drivers periodically was an additional carrot involved.
O
ok2bclever
Guest
Err, no.
Actually, I was meaning how much does a thirty year employee get out west. For instance, with Central States we had 3000 a month with 30 years before the crash.
Of more interest was the benefit side. Central States annual deductables have jumped to four hundred dollars before they start paying, prescriptions have added a twenty five dollar deductable per prescription before the 20/80 payshare, etc.
What is this 5.1 x 2080 thing? Is this how your annual credit is computed, to base your ultimate monthly retirement payout on?
It is quite eye opening to see how many diverse ways UPS pays off what most of us considered a united parcel service.
Thanks.
(Message edited by Ok2bclever on January 26, 2004)
Actually, I was meaning how much does a thirty year employee get out west. For instance, with Central States we had 3000 a month with 30 years before the crash.
Of more interest was the benefit side. Central States annual deductables have jumped to four hundred dollars before they start paying, prescriptions have added a twenty five dollar deductable per prescription before the 20/80 payshare, etc.
What is this 5.1 x 2080 thing? Is this how your annual credit is computed, to base your ultimate monthly retirement payout on?
It is quite eye opening to see how many diverse ways UPS pays off what most of us considered a united parcel service.
Thanks.
(Message edited by Ok2bclever on January 26, 2004)
E
eeriana
Guest
Yes, that is how our accrual rate works.
Ours varies person to person, but an example one of our guys just retired last week.... 29 years with the company, 51 years old at 100%. For him, that is about $3600.00 month plus all medical for him and $50.00 month for his spouse.
is that what you were looking for?
Ours varies person to person, but an example one of our guys just retired last week.... 29 years with the company, 51 years old at 100%. For him, that is about $3600.00 month plus all medical for him and $50.00 month for his spouse.
is that what you were looking for?
O
ok2bclever
Guest
Yep, thanks, I'd cry but the tears would freeze.
E
eeriana
Guest
I'm sorry, would a hug help?
G
gman
Guest
That is sad. Sorry to hear about your freinds. I just hope things work out that I can get my 30 and out with a reasonable pension before something happens that affects me even worse than the Central States fiasco.
E
ezrider
Guest
OK2bclever
You might be right that the company could keep the benefit & premium standards up,but I'm not sure I'd blame them for not diving into that right away.The first post on this thread talked about the "battle for the hearts and minds" and that's what it's going to be.Ron Carey wouldn't let the members vote on a contract offer and played the public opinion game for all it was worth,giving the company a black eye on what history might very well to prove to be sucker-punches.What goes around comes around,and now it's time for IBT to take it's turn getting dragged thru the same mud it has slung at the company for years.
This isn't going to get fixed tommorrow,next week or even next year for that matter,because the company is going want employees to see and have to acknowledge how badly broken the pension fund is that they voted to let the union control.UPS is going to let us get a good long look at how big of a drop off this cliff that IBT has pushed the drivers on the edge of so that this time we all have to acknowledge just what got us here in the first place.If Eskew and the boardroom in Atlanta were to kick in extra money now,then too many employees just buy into the faulty reasoning that Hoffa's rhetoric scared them into it and that doesn't win hearts and minds.
No,this time the company is going to make sure that every hourly employee(with the exception of the Muncher)realizes that UPS dollars have been being handed to workers from other and sometimes competing companies' retirees.The company isn't going to respond to IBT's desperation cash call knowing that at best it's only going to suppress a symptom rather than solve the long-term problem of not enough active workers in the fund.Hell,if anything the more short-term money IBT got the less likely they would be to admit that the way they run things has to change for the long term.Strap the seatbelts on everybody because this isn't going to get prettier until it gets much uglier.It takes about a thousand steps for this to get right again and we are now on I'd say about step number four or five.
You might be right that the company could keep the benefit & premium standards up,but I'm not sure I'd blame them for not diving into that right away.The first post on this thread talked about the "battle for the hearts and minds" and that's what it's going to be.Ron Carey wouldn't let the members vote on a contract offer and played the public opinion game for all it was worth,giving the company a black eye on what history might very well to prove to be sucker-punches.What goes around comes around,and now it's time for IBT to take it's turn getting dragged thru the same mud it has slung at the company for years.
This isn't going to get fixed tommorrow,next week or even next year for that matter,because the company is going want employees to see and have to acknowledge how badly broken the pension fund is that they voted to let the union control.UPS is going to let us get a good long look at how big of a drop off this cliff that IBT has pushed the drivers on the edge of so that this time we all have to acknowledge just what got us here in the first place.If Eskew and the boardroom in Atlanta were to kick in extra money now,then too many employees just buy into the faulty reasoning that Hoffa's rhetoric scared them into it and that doesn't win hearts and minds.
No,this time the company is going to make sure that every hourly employee(with the exception of the Muncher)realizes that UPS dollars have been being handed to workers from other and sometimes competing companies' retirees.The company isn't going to respond to IBT's desperation cash call knowing that at best it's only going to suppress a symptom rather than solve the long-term problem of not enough active workers in the fund.Hell,if anything the more short-term money IBT got the less likely they would be to admit that the way they run things has to change for the long term.Strap the seatbelts on everybody because this isn't going to get prettier until it gets much uglier.It takes about a thousand steps for this to get right again and we are now on I'd say about step number four or five.
L
local804
Guest
Old School,
Quite a few years back UPS had a phone center on Long Island. It was part of our tour when we all became drivers. We got to sit in and listen to the customers complain about things and call in for pickups. I guess it just was to let us hear what goes on behind the scenes. All of a sudden, poof, just like that, building vacant and all the workers let go. They also were not part of our union. They sub contracted the work out to another agency which you are correct again, is not UPS workers. I have noticed that a few PCA`s are moving to other buildings but didnt hear of any of them being let go. The porter positions in our buildings are now subcontracted and who know what will be next. This is just the way big corporations operate and continue to profit. Can you imagine what would happen if UPS had full control of our pension. ( just had to squeek that one in there....) Sorry about your friends....
Quite a few years back UPS had a phone center on Long Island. It was part of our tour when we all became drivers. We got to sit in and listen to the customers complain about things and call in for pickups. I guess it just was to let us hear what goes on behind the scenes. All of a sudden, poof, just like that, building vacant and all the workers let go. They also were not part of our union. They sub contracted the work out to another agency which you are correct again, is not UPS workers. I have noticed that a few PCA`s are moving to other buildings but didnt hear of any of them being let go. The porter positions in our buildings are now subcontracted and who know what will be next. This is just the way big corporations operate and continue to profit. Can you imagine what would happen if UPS had full control of our pension. ( just had to squeek that one in there....) Sorry about your friends....
T
tsg_sam
Guest
We just learned about the PCA thing today. Heard that 63 jobs are going to be gone ASAP in our district. Does anyone know if TSG will be affected? Are there any TSG people active on this board? I remember a couple years ago there was a movement to unionize TSG. I think that that should be explored, especially if there is going to be massive job cuts!
T
tieguy
Guest
"It is their rhetoric of caring about their employees that takes me in the direction that here is an excellent place to make it more than rhetoric.
BTW, today I received unverified news that perhaps they are holding the line on the benefits issue. Not valid enough to take to the bank yet though."
If true I would imagine that it is a negotiating tactic. I know its difficult to associate caring with an organization. I know as a management person you expect me to be devoid of any compassion for the teamster. I would however sincerely like to see a teamster pension plan that pays everyone as well as the west new yorkers for their hard work. To me as an outsider its odd to see an organization that has fought so hard for equality of treatement look the other way on the pension plans.
BTW, today I received unverified news that perhaps they are holding the line on the benefits issue. Not valid enough to take to the bank yet though."
If true I would imagine that it is a negotiating tactic. I know its difficult to associate caring with an organization. I know as a management person you expect me to be devoid of any compassion for the teamster. I would however sincerely like to see a teamster pension plan that pays everyone as well as the west new yorkers for their hard work. To me as an outsider its odd to see an organization that has fought so hard for equality of treatement look the other way on the pension plans.
U
upsdude
Guest
804..
We have a phone center locally that has been operated by a contractor (APAC Services) for about 8 years. The company has used a cleaning contractor for at least 17 years (my tenure) in our building. One thing though, some of the cleaning folks have ended up working for UPS, (loaders, etc). A couple of the cleaning folks ended up leaving the building in handcuffs as well. They were really cleaning up. LOL!
We have a phone center locally that has been operated by a contractor (APAC Services) for about 8 years. The company has used a cleaning contractor for at least 17 years (my tenure) in our building. One thing though, some of the cleaning folks have ended up working for UPS, (loaders, etc). A couple of the cleaning folks ended up leaving the building in handcuffs as well. They were really cleaning up. LOL!
B
brown39
Guest
Those people who manned the phone center were given other work. There was no lay-off, check it out ... you are NOT correct in assuming the people were let go !!!! Check the 43rd st. bldg, as well as the offices in East and West LI. The work indeed was outsourced, but the people AS ALWAYS were offered work elswhere INSIDE UPS.
B
brown39
Guest
All the company was offering in the 97 contract was to MANAGE it for UPS Employed TEAMSTERS. Now that the mess of the CS is out in the public, who is yelling about wanting MORE from UPS to cover the ABSENCE of control...THE TEAMSTERS who WORK !!!! You got bad info and bad leadership in 97 that is coming back to roost today.
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wkmac
Guest
Not giving this effort a pro or con but this is just one effort going on at present concerning the Central States pension fund situation. My understanding is the first thing that needs to be done is remove the work restrictions (excellent move IMO) and move from there. Again, you'll have to decide yourself if it's for the good or bad.
R
robonono
Guest
Good post ezrider.
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local804
Guest
Brown39,
I beg to differ.When 1 Old Country Road closed down there was over 300 employees working on the first floor. I would have to say that 97% of them were women.UPS would like you to think they found jobs for everybody, but it was just a low pertcentage. There is a girl that I know of that does OMS that was from that building. I think she would have a little more knowledge on the situation than you.She used to talk about it with one of the drivers Duane. His wife was let go and the two women were friends.
I beg to differ.When 1 Old Country Road closed down there was over 300 employees working on the first floor. I would have to say that 97% of them were women.UPS would like you to think they found jobs for everybody, but it was just a low pertcentage. There is a girl that I know of that does OMS that was from that building. I think she would have a little more knowledge on the situation than you.She used to talk about it with one of the drivers Duane. His wife was let go and the two women were friends.
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