"BROTHERHOOD" in International Brotherhood of Teamsters has been Broken-RIP 2013

[Bagels]

"BEING brought in line" is that the new explanation for concessions? Is that what our retirees needed to have happen to them? Bring them into line with YOU?

Those retirees spent years in the trenches fighting the early battles for guys like you to simply hand them back to the company. What a hero you are to our retirees. I am sure they are applauding guys like you who think like this.

As the original post said, THIS isnt a BROTHERHOOD any longer.

Posts like yours demonstrates just that.

Its clear the part timers were sold out to the company by the teamsters so they could subsidize your $3.90 over 5 years. Hopefully, you have the balls to thank one of them for their sacrifice so you could get yours...

Peace

TOS

LOL.

The retirees fought hard for themselves, not "guys like us." They sold out the PTers for a bigger pay day. They approved contracts that increasingly gave concessions toward the company using lower-cost labor just so they could enjoy larger raises. "Brotherhood" hasn't existed in my lifetime. I will vote the same way the retirees voted -- for a contract that's favorable to me.

 

[The Other Side]

It's been debated ad nauseum !!!

All points from both sides from all positions have been made. Let the democratic process do it's thing !!

BTW, You might pay a dollar more for that Ritalin refill, so get that filled by August 1st !!

This thread isnt about debating the contract, rather, its a thread to debate people LIKE YOU.

In years past, every member understood that standing together made this union stronger. Every member knew that allthough in their respective districts things may not have been as good as other districts, but standing together would always come first as a union.

People like you HEFFERMAN, demonstrate how selfish people can be.

The death of this union as a whole has been started by this contract. When members can disregard the Union as a whole in order to gain a small advantage for themselves, then the company WINS in this battle.

Getting us to fight with each other and demonstrate to the company that we can be divided by chump change is exactly what UPS was looking for.

Thank you for giving that to them. YOU and the other guys who paraded around on this board demonstrating that you didnt care about your brothers and sisters should be ashamed of yourself.

This isnt a simple, "i voted no and you voted yes" issue.

This is an issue of solidarity, unity and trust.

So far, guys like YOU Hefferman, have shown us NO LOYALTY, NO SOLIDARITY, NO UNITY and clearly, NO TRUST to stand with us in this fight.

If YOU think this is the end of the concessions, then stay tuned. The next contract will be worse, all the pieces are in place for the destruction of the teamsters in 2018. When YOU let the company divide us, then YOU help to destroy us all.

In case you havent heard this before:

"United we Stand, Divided we Fall"

Peace

TOS

 

[The Other Side]

LOL.

The retirees fought hard for themselves, not "guys like us." They sold out the PTers for a bigger pay day. They approved contracts that increasingly gave concessions toward the company using lower-cost labor just so they could enjoy larger raises. "Brotherhood" hasn't existed in my lifetime. I will vote the same way the retirees voted -- for a contract that's favorable to me.

What are you smoking?

Progression didnt begin to accelerate until the 2008 contract after Ron Carey left office. In the last two contracts, progression for part timers has increased by TWO YEARS. That's 24K taken out of their pockets and then placed into our pockets as raises.

WE FINANCE OUR OWN RAISES.

Simple economics bro. When an employee has to wait a year to see a 10 dollar jump from part time to full time, thats where your RAISES come from.

The company and the union do this by design.

The UNION wants to be able to SELL you on a contract, so together with the company, they extend progression and then take that money thats NOT being paid to part timers and give it back to us in large raises so the contract can appeal to you.

Hopefully, you understand how this works.

In 1997, those retirees stood on the picket lines standing up for progression, health insurance, job security and the creation of the full time job you may have today. Now, they have been thrown under the bus because the union knows ONE THING.

They can no longer vote for them.

The company doesnt care either.

Some retirees only recieve 2600.00 a month, and taking 400.00 dollars a month out of that can be devastating to them. WE OWE them our loyalty.

If we start a Me, Myself and I attitude, what do you expect to happen to you when you are retired?

Is that the future of the teamsters? Screw the old guys so "some" can have gains"

One day, we will all be retired, and hopefully, there will be members strong enough to look beyond themselves.

peace

TOS

 

[brett636]

Nothing pleases me more than to read you complaining about the consequences of your very own political ideals biting you in the ass. You wanted Obama twice and got him twice. He was able to ram through a healthcare law that has everyone afraid of the future, and skyrocketing insurance premiums are only the start. Face it, if the healthcare law had not been passed and upheld our insurance would have been a much lower priority issue in the negotiations considering future premium costs would have been much more predictable allowing for more time and energy to be spent on other areas that needed attention, but since it was the company's primary concern we get stuck with this abortion of a contract that reduces said healthcare benefits. Congratulations, you have made your bed and now you get to ly in it. I just wish the rest of us didn't also have to suffer as a result, but sometimes life isn't fair like that.

 

[Wally]

All you guys ticked off, shouldn't you be mad at our elected officials that decided this was good enough to vote on?

 

[bigrig]

Always remember people sometines appear to be one thing when they are something totally different.

 

[UPS Preloader]

With this contract, comes the reality that "we" are no longer a "BROTHERHOOD" of members. With posters like Stink, 407 steward, UPSUPSTATE, Hefferman and the like, we no longer show a concern for our brothers and sisters and the struggles in each local.

This contract has turned the "brotherhood" into the "International separatists Teamsters"

We didnt stand up for our retiree brothers and sisters whose healthcare costs are going to skyrocket. We didnt stand up for our part time brothers and sisters who will now have to wait 4 years to make top pay. We didnt stand up for our package drivers with better language on excessive overtime or technology usage.

Instead, the afformentioned "Teamsters" demonstrated the new look teamsters where they only concern themselves with whats best for them and them only.

WE are no longer a "BROTHERHOOD" if this contract passes as it stands today.

Today will be a long day of waiting, waiting to see if we are still in fact a BROTHERHOOD, or merely a bunch of people scrambling for what we can get as individuals.

Peace

TOS

Amongst other issues, I feel that the supplements contribute to this. Even though I'm better off the way it is now, there should simply be one contract, one healthcare plan, one pension, etc. I realize there may need to be some exceptions made by region, but overall everything should be equal. Why one area has a better pension, better health care, or better 9.5 language doesn't seem fair to me. (JMO)

 

[brown_trousers]

Amongst other issues, I feel that the supplements contribute to this. Even though I'm better off the way it is now, there should simply be one contract, one healthcare plan, one pension, etc. I realize there may need to be some exceptions made by region, but overall everything should be equal. Why one area has a better pension, better health care, or better 9.5 language doesn't seem fair to me. (JMO)

I dont buy into the "one shoe fits everyone" theory. I do agree that we should all be compensated equally for our time, based on seniority, position, etc.. but different areas have different costs associated with them.

For example.... what if UPS gave every employee a fixed dollar amount per month for healthcare. In some regions that amount may buy more coverage than in other regions.

Same with pension. Each region chooses a different way to invest their alloted retirement dollars. Here in the west coast we decided to invest our dollars in the west coast benefits trust. Even though our retirement seems to pay out better in the end, its not because we recieve more contributions from UPS, its because we chose a better investment for our dollars.

 

[balland chain]

I dont buy into the "one shoe fits everyone" theory. I do agree that we should all be compensated equally for our time, based on seniority, position, etc.. but different areas have different costs associated with them.

For example.... what if UPS gave every employee a fixed dollar amount per month for healthcare. In some regions that amount may buy more coverage than in other regions.

Same with pension. Each region chooses a different way to invest their alloted retirement dollars. Here in the west coast we decided to invest our dollars in the west coast benefits trust. Even though our retirement seems to pay out better in the end, its not because we recieve more contributions from UPS, its because we chose a better investment for our dollars.

Glad to hear you are getting a fair pension.. Here i n the South (NC/SC) we never got to chose how are pension dollars were invested.. They were simply handed over to the crooks at Central States, who ended up loosing Billions of dollars, and on top of that Millions of dollars went missing, with nobody being held accountable.. Keep in mind, this is the same company that our union thinks is good for handling our healthcare.. I cant wait to see what they do next.. They can no longer surprise me....

 

[rpoz11]

Nothing pleases me more than to read you complaining about the consequences of your very own political ideals biting you in the ass. You wanted Obama twice and got him twice. He was able to ram through a healthcare law that has everyone afraid of the future, and skyrocketing insurance premiums are only the start. Face it, if the healthcare law had not been passed and upheld our insurance would have been a much lower priority issue in the negotiations considering future premium costs would have been much more predictable allowing for more time and energy to be spent on other areas that needed attention, but since it was the company's primary concern we get stuck with this abortion of a contract that reduces said healthcare benefits. Congratulations, you have made your bed and now you get to ly in it. I just wish the rest of us didn't also have to suffer as a result, but sometimes life isn't fair like that.

EXACTLY!
This statement is what has happened to us in this situation.

When TOS brings the collective group of us back together, then issues we are losing will be better fought and won.
Our current Union office holders only have their best interests to protect.
In my building, some work the contract away for favoritism.
And they always prey on the new guys who don't know.
Me, I learned the hard way how the company, stewards, & individuals will work against contract protection & at the same time work together to destroy the fabric of what Unions and Teamsters together should be.

 

[Integrity]

With this contract, comes the reality that "we" are no longer a "BROTHERHOOD" of members. With posters like Stink, 407 steward, UPSUPSTATE, Hefferman and the like, we no longer show a concern for our brothers and sisters and the struggles in each local.

This contract has turned the "brotherhood" into the "International separatists Teamsters"

We didnt stand up for our retiree brothers and sisters whose healthcare costs are going to skyrocket. We didnt stand up for our part time brothers and sisters who will now have to wait 4 years to make top pay. We didnt stand up for our package drivers with better language on excessive overtime or technology usage.

Instead, the afformentioned "Teamsters" demonstrated the new look teamsters where they only concern themselves with whats best for them and them only.

WE are no longer a "BROTHERHOOD" if this contract passes as it stands today.

Today will be a long day of waiting, waiting to see if we are still in fact a BROTHERHOOD, or merely a bunch of people scrambling for what we can get as individuals.

Peace

TOS

The Other Side,

Providing you believe the leadership, true solidarity would be that all members would accept the recommendation of those put in authority to approve the TA.

Unanimous approval by local leaders should not be taken lightly when considering how to vote.

Even if you disagree with your local leaders decision to approve, one cannot fail to take into account that it was a unanimous approval.

Sincerely,
I

 

[UPS Preloader]

The Other Side,

Providing you believe the leadership, true solidarity would be that all members would accept the recommendation of those put in authority to approve the TA.

Unanimous approval by local leaders should not be taken lightly when considering how to vote.

Even if you disagree with your local leaders decision to approve, one cannot fail to take into account that it was a unanimous approval.

Sincerely,
I

Where is the Integrity in that? Vote yes on a contract that I don't feel is in everyone's best interest? I don't think so.

 

[Integrity]

Where is the Integrity in that? Vote yes on a contract that I don't feel is in everyone's best interest? I don't think so.

UPS Preloader,

Even though all the local union leadership involved in negotiating the TA think that it is everyone's best interest you hold your opinion higher than the entire IBT local leaders.

Is this what you are trying to tell me?

Sincerely,
I

 

[UPS Preloader]

UPS Preloader,

Even though all the local union leadership involved in negotiating the TA think that it is everyone's best interest you hold your opinion higher than the entire IBT local leaders.

Is this what you are trying to tell me?

Sincerely,
I

YES - I have the ability to read the contract myself and make an informed decision on my own. The could have done better. FYI - Not all of the Locals support the TA.

 

[Bagels]

The Teamsters have gradually conceded the ability for the Company to use seasonal, cover & temporary drivers at a wage of one-half the FTers; they've also increased what's considered to be "seasonal" to be more than half the year. At the end of the contract, the wage will be significantly less than one-half what a regular FT driver earns, even though the Company can put more work on them without concern for 9.5 violations. People who've driven seasonally for 10 years earn the same, flat wage.

Yes, I agree with you on one thing: it's simple economics. There's only so much $$$ to go around and the employees who've retired have continually voted to raid the pot. Take, take, take.

Don't give me this Brotherhood B.S. If a contract came to vote that paid drivers $150,000/year -- but earned new drivers a cap of $25/hour earned over a 10-year progression, and capped PT pay at $14/hour, the FTers would overwhelmingly vote for it. It's all about greed.

What are you smoking?

Progression didnt begin to accelerate until the 2008 contract after Ron Carey left office. In the last two contracts, progression for part timers has increased by TWO YEARS. That's 24K taken out of their pockets and then placed into our pockets as raises.

WE FINANCE OUR OWN RAISES.

Simple economics bro. When an employee has to wait a year to see a 10 dollar jump from part time to full time, thats where your RAISES come from...

 

[Bagels]

Nothing pleases me more than to read you complaining about the consequences of your very own political ideals biting you in the ass. You wanted Obama twice and got him twice. He was able to ram through a healthcare law that has everyone afraid of the future, and skyrocketing insurance premiums are only the start. Face it, if the healthcare law had not been passed and upheld our insurance would have been a much lower priority issue in the negotiations considering future premium costs would have been much more predictable allowing for more time and energy to be spent on other areas that needed attention, but since it was the company's primary concern we get stuck with this abortion of a contract that reduces said healthcare benefits. Congratulations, you have made your bed and now you get to ly in it. I just wish the rest of us didn't also have to suffer as a result, but sometimes life isn't fair like that.

LOL. Health insurance premiums have been soaring for over 30 years. You can blame the Reagan Administration (the hero in your avatar), as it set the precedent for companies dumping health care in favor of larger profits, which has just snowballed from there (the biggest reason for the increases is the continued burden of the un/under insured).

UPS was upset that it continued to pay all associated costs with health care, despite the continued soaring costs (with the biggest increases occurring under the Bush Administration). They've hiked management fees and to insist that had McCain been preseident and ObamaCare never existed, UPS would've happily continued our health care is TOTAL BS.

Still interesting that you have a picture of Reagan, since he's hailed by Right Wingers as the person who broke labor (even though in reality, he supported & feat unions were a necessity for workers to earn fair compensation.)

 

[brown_trousers]

LOL. Health insurance premiums have been soaring for over 30 years. You can blame the Reagan Administration (the hero in your avatar), as it set the precedent for companies dumping health care in favor of larger profits, which has just snowballed from there (the biggest reason for the increases is the continued burden of the un/under insured).

UPS was upset that it continued to pay all associated costs with health care, despite the continued soaring costs (with the biggest increases occurring under the Bush Administration). They've hiked management fees and to insist that had McCain been preseident and ObamaCare never existed, UPS would've happily continued our health care is TOTAL BS.

Still interesting that you have a picture of Reagan, since he's hailed by Right Wingers as the person who broke labor (even though in reality, he supported & feat unions were a necessity for workers to earn fair compensation.)

Well we still havent seen the full 8 years of Obama. Im guessing healthcare will increase alot more in obama's 8 years than it did in bush's 8. Obama has quite the history of "successful" gimmicks in his career... cash for clunker, first-time homebuyer incentive, and now obamacare.

 

[CharleyHustle]

This thread isnt about debating the contract, rather, its a thread to debate people LIKE YOU.

OK

In years past, every member understood that standing together made this union stronger. Every member knew that allthough in their respective districts things may not have been as good as other districts, but standing together would always come first as a union.

I've read this statement over and over, and it just doesn't make any sense, what exactly are you trying to say.



People like you HEFFERMAN, demonstrate how selfish people can be.

The death of this union as a whole has been started by this contract. When members can disregard the Union as a whole in order to gain a small advantage for themselves, then the company WINS in this battle.

Didn't the union as a whole elect the officers who negotiated the TA? Who is disregarding who?

Getting us to fight with each other and demonstrate to the company that we can be divided by chump change is exactly what UPS was looking for.

Thank you for giving that to them. YOU and the other guys who paraded around on this board demonstrating that you didnt care about your brothers and sisters should be ashamed of yourself.

So what you are doing is different than parading and demonstrating?

This isnt a simple, "i voted no and you voted yes" issue.

This is an issue of solidarity, unity and trust.

So far, guys like YOU Hefferman, have shown us NO LOYALTY, NO SOLIDARITY, NO UNITY and clearly, NO TRUST to stand with us in this fight.

Do you think we should kick Heffernan out of the union?

If YOU think this is the end of the concessions, then stay tuned. The next contract will be worse, all the pieces are in place for the destruction of the teamsters in 2018. When YOU let the company divide us, then YOU help to destroy us all.

In case you havent heard this before:

"United we Stand, Divided we Fall"

Peace

TOS

I've seen a few contract votes, and in each and every one, members have voted yes and members have voted no. At the end of the day, this is true unionism, true solidarity, true loyalty and true trust. What the Teamsters and every union bring (and really this is all they provide) to their members is a right to have a say,and to be heard.

 

[The Other Side]

The Other Side,

Providing you believe the leadership, true solidarity would be that all members would accept the recommendation of those put in authority to approve the TA.

Unanimous approval by local leaders should not be taken lightly when considering how to vote.

Even if you disagree with your local leaders decision to approve, one cannot fail to take into account that it was a unanimous approval.

Sincerely,
I

Integrity,

To answer your question, NO.

Those elected officials work for us. They are suppose to represent "our" collective best interests first. AT NO TIME, before they made the deal with UPS, did they CONSULT with the membership. They had an OBLIGATION to consult with us in each local first, along with a full debate on all issues. Afterwards, if the membership in the majority believed this process should have gone forward, then they go back to the company and they agree.

Instead, they came to us pounding their fists assuring us that "we wont pay $90./$9./.09 cents".... instead, they brought to 140,000 working UPS teamsters a plan that will cost members over $2000.00 dollars a year.

WE DIDNT AGREE TO THIS.

As for the Two man meetings, those are merely political. As if "OUR" principle officer, Ron H actually had the balls to go against the IBT when he sits on the International board as a trustee is laughable at best.

Of course he and Jay raised their hands and voted YES. That doesnt make it the right decision. Its just something they are obligated to do because they are in too deep in Union politics and forgot about the membership they were suppose to protect.

This hasnt gone unnoticed in our local amongst the members.

Just because the International believed they settled the deal at great expense to the members doesnt mean that "WE" have to support that idea. That's not what solidarity is all about.

The Teamsters knew that taking away the health benefits of the members in the southwest and local 177 would create a huge blowback, so another plan had to be worked out with the company to counter this blowback.

After making promises to the membership here in the southwest of not paying 90/9/09, the Teamsters knew they would put the principle officers in jeopardy, so they needed help from the company. By extending the progression of all part timers to 4 years, and diverting the monies that would have been paid to those part timers as NEW raises, the International knew it could market one region against the other.

This has gone unnoticed by many on this board and around the country.

The fact that the principle officers voted unanimously amounts to nothing when put into perspective. "WE" the members should have the final say on whats offered and what isnt. "WE" in the southwest and in local 177 NEVER authorized the International to bargain away our health care benefits.

"WE" can only "take into account" a unanimous approval once all the facts are out in the open. No matter how this contract goes down in the next 72 hours, UPS will have over 140,000 pissed off employees looking for some payback.

Ok, fine. You want to charge us for a ridiculous health care plan that doesnt come close to what we have today? OK, drivers will just extend their days and make up the difference in premiums. That will end up costing the company more money than if they just continued paying for it.

Secondly, those principle officers who sold us out will face the blowback of that decision at the ballot box. This I assure you. Its the talk of the yards ALREADY in our local. We already have retirees who are coming together to group into campaigning committees to oust our local officers.

There is going to be a huge blowback in our local if this contract is ratified.

To say that "we" should have just voted yes, because the idiots involved sold us out is just plain silly.

"WE" were never put first by the International or its officers. The international put itself first and it shows in the new language. Anyone who believes that extending the part time progression rate another year helps the part timer needs to have his head examined, then punched out.

Peace

TOS

 

[Integrity]

YES - I have the ability to read the contract myself and make an informed decision on my own. The could have done better. FYI - Not all of the Locals support the TA.

UPS Preloader,

Unanimous support shows solidarity.

Your attitude seems to be one that would undermine the solidarity achieved from unanimous support.

It is published that UPS, UPSF Local Leaders Unanimously Approve TAs.

Everyone was free to vote in any manner they choose but I repeat weight has to be given to the fact of Local Union Leadership unanimous support.

Sincerely,
I