Cross Training?

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by preloadguy, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. preloadguy

    preloadguy New Member

    One of the questions on the form for filing a grievance for supervisors working is "Was the supervisor cross training"?

    What exactly does that mean?

    In my hub, the sups love to grab a new hire and drag him all over the building so they can work under the guise of "training". It was my understanding that training means a supervisor is allowed to demonstrate the proper methods while the trainee watches and observes. It does not mean the sup in one truck and the trainee in another, both loading at the same time.

    I am being told by management that they are allowed to "supplement" the work as long as they have a new hire with them. Another question on the same form is "Was the trainee in the work area"?

    How big is the 'work area'?

    I would love to hear the thoughts of anyone with experience in filing a grievance for sups working.
  2. Wally

    Wally Hailing from Parts Unknown.

    If the sup is working alone or with someone?
  3. Indecisi0n

    Indecisi0n Well-Known Member

    They get away with this at my center all the time. They even use guys on TAW as pawns to just sit in the jump seat while sup pulls the route.
  4. PT Car Washer

    PT Car Washer Well-Known Member

    In my building the PT sups grab one of the old guys and have them stand there while they do the work. One PT sup was dumping smalls into the hopper while an employee with 30 years in was watching. His excuse was he was training. People are starting to file on this now and the practice is ending. The old guys don't like it because now they have to work.
  5. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    If it's a new hire during his first 5 working days of training, I let it slide as long as the employee is at least near the supervisor. Typically, the supervisor will load/unload with the hourly and take over when their truck gets backed out.

    If it's a seniority employee learning a new job, the supervisor can work for "demonstration" purposes. Or, for example, to train the employee in the job methods (building a correct wall, etc.).

    You have to use good judgment here; if it's a rookie pick-off on, say, the LVD and a supervisor jumps on the slide to give them a hand when the flow is belt-wide then that's one thing. If a supervisor is jumping on the sort aisle to "train" a sorter while actually sorting a truck, that's costing someone a job.

    Training/demonstration really shouldn't take more than 15 minutes and the hourly should not be working during this time frame. If the supervisor is in a truck next door, there's no training going on and you should note that in the grievance. Just ignore that stuff on the grievance form; you can file a grievance on a cocktail napkin if you want. I don't understand why your local would even have that on there as it gives the company an "out" without even doing any investigating of their own.
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  6. preloadguy

    preloadguy New Member

    In this specific case, the new hire is in the 3rd week. The two of them will work the new hire's slide, definitely in separate trucks. Periodically throughout the day they will both come over to another hourly's slide and begin loading that area, again in separate trucks.

    When asked why a supervisor is doing hourly work, they don't even pretend to be training. They seemed very confident about the word 'supplement' using it several times to justify working.

    Thanks for the info. I always make a point to read your posts, always very informative.

    What info is crucial when filing the grievance?
  7. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    That's bull:censored2:. This is yet another instance of a PT/FT supervisor being told something and then running wild with it.

    When filing, you need to cite the articles violated (in this case, Article 3, Section 7) and then note the supervisor (you don't need a name, but you should identify them as best you can, ie. "PD1 PT Supervisor", "Training Department Supervisor", etc.). You'll also need to describe the work performed (loaded Door 1, unloaded hardware carts, re-taped boxes, etc.) along with the hours as exact as you can get them ("Joe Supervisor loaded in Door 1 on PD1 from 5:13 PM - 7:00 PM,") and any witnesses that agree to be listed ("Bill Union and Jake Union witnessed this,") along with any other pertinent information (ie. "Two employees were sent home on that day leaving the area understaffed," "I asked to perform said work at the end of sort and was told to clock out instead," etc.)

    Under the remedy, calculate the total amount of minutes worked in that day/time period (you can let it build up over 4-5 working days but it must be filed by the steward on the 5th working day after the violation, ie. they work on a Monday, the grievance must be filed by the following Monday to be timely) and then request double time ("178 minutes at double rate of pay").
  8. RealPerson

    RealPerson Active Member

    I don't think a SUP can do more work than the restrictions of the person on TAW..
    I have never read this, but that is what I have been told.
  9. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    I'm too tired after work for cross training.
  10. I thought I was the only one.

    1BROWNWRENCH Amatuer Malthusian

    I had some shoes for that once.
  12. annie345

    annie345 Member

    In our area its pretty specific.. The mgmt. Must document every day of training. That training documentation must have whether its for new hire or existing employee.. And if they are not yet qualified (new employee) they can work with the employee everyday if they need to as long as the reason is documented. If its an already seniority employee they can train, re-train, and demonstrate methods as long as its documented and provides a reason for the training. So just dumping bags while another employee watches isn't reason enough.. If the employee was doing a job wrong and a supervisor documented dumping the bags to show the employee how to do the job properly it would be OK.. If a supervisor is handling pkgs.. File a grievance.. If they call it training and its not documented you should win the grievance. If the reason for the training is not a valid reason you should win the greivance.
  13. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    I had a Nordic Trak once. Made a great clothes hanger.
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  14. Future

    Future Well-Known Member

    :2guns::2guns::2guns::2guns::2guns::2guns:No cross training in my center, but alot of crossdressing sups!