Employee Survey.

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

The "Joe Union" stereotype is one that you repeatedly refer to on this forum.

What exactly is a "Joe Union"? I ask the question seriously because I am trying to understand what you mean by it.

I have a suspicion that I know what you mean, but rather than make ignorant assumptions based upon those suspicions I would rather get some facts so that my understanding is clear.

A "Joe Union" is someone who cannot see beyond the black and white of the contract.

 

[old levi's]

A "Joe Union" is someone who cannot see beyond the black and white of the contract.

Do you like it when UPS sees beyond the black and white of the contract?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Do you like it when UPS sees beyond the black and white of the contract?

Depends on the situation--if it is done to ensure customer service I am all for it. If it is done simply to make their numbers look good--I have a problem with that.

What I was thinking when I wrote that was the time we had to deal with a power outage during the sort. Management and hourlies worked together to make sure the feeders pulled on time. We also worked together when we had to recover the contents of a feeder pulling a set of doubles which had been broadsided by a car that ran a red light.

 

[soberups]

Depends on the situation--if it is done to ensure customer service I am all for it. If it is done simply to make their numbers look good--I have a problem with that.

What I was thinking when I wrote that was the time we had to deal with a power outage during the sort. Management and hourlies worked together to make sure the feeders pulled on time. We also worked together when we had to recover the contents of a feeder pulling a set of doubles which had been broadsided by a car that ran a red light.

Perhaps you should actually read the contract before you create ignorant stereotypes about those who wish to uphold it.

The two scenarios you refer to would clearly be considered "acts of God" under Article 3 section 7 of the Master Agreement, and as long as the company first made every effort to employ as many hourly employees as possible, it would then be entitled to have supervisors perform the work as needed in order to avoid service failures without being in violation of the contract.

I believe the problem here lies in your personal definition of what constitutes an "Act of God". Misloads caused by managements incompetence or willfull refusal to adequately plan and staff the operation are not "Acts of God". Christmas (at least in the context of the labor agreement) is not an "Act of God". Climactic conditions that are typical for the area in question are not "Acts of God".

Contrary to what you may choose to believe, the language was not intended to screw over the customers or cause sweet little old ladies to be denied their medication because some "Joe Union" threatened to file a grievance. The intent of the language is to protect our work and minimize the number of employees who are laid off and not making hourly contributions to the pension fund that you will benefit from when you retire.

 

[moreluck]

Me, hitting the lottery would be an act of God !!

 

[menotyou]

Uh-oh!! I 'liked' something, again!!

I work in his local. No calls were placed to Black River for help.

 

[old levi's]

Me, hitting the lottery would be an act of God !!

Me getting lucky would be an act of God.
Not talking about the lottery! But I would accept that also.

 

[menotyou]

http://m.mapquest.com/maps?1ai=pots...attsburg,+ny&r=friend&referrerView=directions

I bet no one in Potsdam was called, either.

 

[pretzel_man]

Perhaps you should actually read the contract before you create ignorant stereotypes about those who wish to uphold it.

The two scenarios you refer to would clearly be considered "acts of God" under Article 3 section 7 of the Master Agreement, and as long as the company first made every effort to employ as many hourly employees as possible, it would then be entitled to have supervisors perform the work as needed in order to avoid service failures without being in violation of the contract.

I believe the problem here lies in your personal definition of what constitutes an "Act of God". Misloads caused by managements incompetence or willfull refusal to adequately plan and staff the operation are not "Acts of God". Christmas (at least in the context of the labor agreement) is not an "Act of God". Climactic conditions that are typical for the area in question are not "Acts of God".

Contrary to what you may choose to believe, the language was not intended to screw over the customers or cause sweet little old ladies to be denied their medication because some "Joe Union" threatened to file a grievance. The intent of the language is to protect our work and minimize the number of employees who are laid off and not making hourly contributions to the pension fund that you will benefit from when you retire.

If the discussion is about misloads, I agree that they should be shuttle by hourly employees. Supervisors shouldn't shuttle missed trailers, and shuttling misloads is not the appropriate action either.

But....

The reason I believe this is that it forces visibility to the problem. An invisible problem will never be fixed. And I DO believe its the fault of management.

However, the knee jerk thought that the solution will be in adding staff is not necessarily true.

In the hubs they made misloads visible. Tracked every one through system generated reports (no chance of fudging numbers).

Misloads reduced and PPH improved. The positively impacted BOTH cost and service.

Management needs to be held accountable. Yes, some employees will be disciplined, but that's the right thing.

 

[Bubblehead]

If the discussion is about misloads, I agree that they should be shuttle by hourly employees. Supervisors shouldn't shuttle missed trailers, and shuttling misloads is not the appropriate action either.

But....

The reason I believe this is that it forces visibility to the problem. An invisible problem will never be fixed. And I DO believe its the fault of management.

However, the knee jerk thought that the solution will be in adding staff is not necessarily true.

In the hubs they made misloads visible. Tracked every one through system generated reports (no chance of fudging numbers).

Misloads reduced and PPH improved. The positively impacted BOTH cost and service.

Management needs to be held accountable. Yes, some employees will be disciplined, but that's the right thing.

How do you hold an $8.50/hr employee accountable in a scenario where they are being asked to do more than anybody ever has within the preload system?
These empoyees have an alarming turnover rate, to the point that there are management positions specifically created to retain as many as possible.
The inherant problem, companywide, is the bare bones staffing of all operations.
Unfortunately today at UPS, all employees including management, are just trying to survive in an atmosphere of unattainable goals.

 

[menotyou]

Our preload sups (yes, pyscho Susie) idea of an emergency we shortstaffed. It was known in advance, but she would wait til 3:30am to call the hall asking for help. Would p-man agree with that?

 

[pretzel_man]

How do you hold an $8.50/hr employee accountable in a scenario where they are being asked to do more than anybody ever has within the preload system?
These empoyees have an alarming turnover rate, to the point that there are management positions specifically created to retain as many as possible.
The inherant problem, companywide, is the bare bones staffing of all operations.
Unfortunately today at UPS, all employees including management, are just trying to survive in an atmosphere of unattainable goals.

Start by going back to the basics. Tell them that they have misloads....

I can't tell you the number of times I asked preloads how their misloads were to hear them say they had none.....

Audit.... During the preload, check their loads. Communicate back to them that they have a problem.

Hub employees make the same amount.... Hubs have the same constraints. It worked there.

 

[soberups]

Start by going back to the basics. Tell them that they have misloads....

I can't tell you the number of times I asked preloads how their misloads were to hear them say they had none.....

Audit.... During the preload, check their loads. Communicate back to them that they have a problem.

Hub employees make the same amount.... Hubs have the same constraints. It worked there.

With all due respect, P-man, comparing preload to the hub is like comparing apples to garden rakes.

I have done both jobs and the preload side is far more complicated. There are far more opportunities for misloads, mistakes, and general chaos in preload.

To compare the job of loading a trailer...where all one has to do is to stack packages in a wall and make sure they have the correct ZIP code....with the job of a preloader who must load 4+ package cars sequentially in a manner that will allow the driver to select them with a minimum of sorting...is inaccurate.

You speak of being unable to "fudge" the numbers in the hub. Preload "fudges" its numbers every day by virtue of the fact that it is impossible to accurately quantify load quality into a metric. So in order to "meet plan" and generate the PPH metric that is being demanded of them, the preload is basically forced to do "fling job" loads where they literally fling the packages into the cars and hope that they land on on near the correct shelf. They may indeed not have "misloads" in the technical sense...but the resulting mess means that that preload is essentially able to "shift" its labor costs to the on-road side of the operation in a manner that is impossible for the hub to do. The modern day preload supervisor could literally care less how bad his loads are or how much additional overtime a $30-per-hour driver is forced to spend sorting, as long as his part of the operation meets its metric goals. This is a classic example of a manager who justifies spending $50 to save a dime because that dime is showing up on his report while the $50 is conveniently showing up on someone elses.

 

[pretzel_man]

With all due respect, P-man, comparing preload to the hub is like comparing apples to garden rakes.

I have done both jobs and the preload side is far more complicated. There are far more opportunities for misloads, mistakes, and general chaos in preload.

To compare the job of loading a trailer...where all one has to do is to stack packages in a wall and make sure they have the correct ZIP code....with the job of a preloader who must load 4+ package cars sequentially in a manner that will allow the driver to select them with a minimum of sorting...is inaccurate.

You speak of being unable to "fudge" the numbers in the hub. Preload "fudges" its numbers every day by virtue of the fact that it is impossible to accurately quantify load quality into a metric. So in order to "meet plan" and generate the PPH metric that is being demanded of them, the preload is basically forced to do "fling job" loads where they literally fling the packages into the cars and hope that they land on on near the correct shelf. They may indeed not have "misloads" in the technical sense...but the resulting mess means that that preload is essentially able to "shift" its labor costs to the on-road side of the operation in a manner that is impossible for the hub to do. The modern day preload supervisor could literally care less how bad his loads are or how much additional overtime a $30-per-hour driver is forced to spend sorting, as long as his part of the operation meets its metric goals. This is a classic example of a manager who justifies spending $50 to save a dime because that dime is showing up on his report while the $50 is conveniently showing up on someone elses.

Sober,

With all due respect to you as well.. I have also worked both operations, both as an hourly and a manager.

The basics are the same. The standards are much different. A hub runs much higher PPH than a preload because of the complication you mention.

I never said they would have the same production, just that the way to improve is the same. In fact its likely the same for all jobs (inside and outside of UPS).

 

[soberups]

Sober,

With all due respect to you as well.. I have also worked both operations, both as an hourly and a manager.

The basics are the same. The standards are much different. A hub runs much higher PPH than a preload because of the complication you mention.

I never said they would have the same production, just that the way to improve is the same. In fact its likely the same for all jobs (inside and outside of UPS).

Actually, the way to improve a preload is to make an administrative change.

If you want good load quality from preload, then stop treating the preload operation as a seperate entity with its own set of metric goals. Instead, combine its numbers with the on-road part of each operation so that the preload gets "charged" with overallowed driver hours.

Right now, there is absolutely no motivation for the average preload manager to focus on load quality. His numbers (PPH) will go down, but the "credit" for the increase in driver productivity goes to the on road. This is bass-ackwards from where our priorities should be. The prelad manager and center manager should be co-equals on the same team, with equal and shared responsibility for the "numbers" that both sides generate. What would very quickly happen in such a scenario...is that we would see a far greater emphasis on load quality and misload reduction. The slight decrease in preload PPH would more than be offset by the huge increase in on-road productivity. $45-at-overtime overallowed hours for drivers would decrease...miles spent shagging misloads would decrease...missed packages would decrease...at the "cost" of slight drop in PPH generated by those whose wages are the lowest.

 

[Bubblehead]

Actually, the way to improve a preload is to make an administrative change.

If you want good load quality from preload, then stop treating the preload operation as a separate entity with its own set of metric goals. Instead, combine its numbers with the on-road part of each operation so that the preload gets "charged" with over allowed driver hours.

Right now, there is absolutely no motivation for the average preload manager to focus on load quality. His numbers (PPH) will go down, but the "credit" for the increase in driver productivity goes to the on road. This is bass-ackwards from where our priorities should be. The prelad manager and center manager should be co-equals on the same team, with equal and shared responsibility for the "numbers" that both sides generate. What would very quickly happen in such a scenario...is that we would see a far greater emphasis on load quality and misload reduction. The slight decrease in preload PPH would more than be offset by the huge increase in on-road productivity. $45-at-overtime overallowed hours for drivers would decrease...miles spent shagging misloads would decrease...missed packages would decrease...at the "cost" of slight drop in PPH generated by those whose wages are the lowest.

Exactly!!!
I have often noted that for every hour lost by a driver due to preload inadequacies, at $45/hr, another part timer could be added to the preload operation on that specific day.
In doing so, the benefits would be exponential.
Instead they continue to try and squeeze every drop of blood from the turnip.
Reality has it as Sober alluded, one phase of the operation is screwing the next in order to satisfy their own specific metric.

 

[pretzel_man]

Actually, the way to improve a preload is to make an administrative change.

If you want good load quality from preload, then stop treating the preload operation as a seperate entity with its own set of metric goals. Instead, combine its numbers with the on-road part of each operation so that the preload gets "charged" with overallowed driver hours.

Right now, there is absolutely no motivation for the average preload manager to focus on load quality. His numbers (PPH) will go down, but the "credit" for the increase in driver productivity goes to the on road. This is bass-ackwards from where our priorities should be. The prelad manager and center manager should be co-equals on the same team, with equal and shared responsibility for the "numbers" that both sides generate. What would very quickly happen in such a scenario...is that we would see a far greater emphasis on load quality and misload reduction. The slight decrease in preload PPH would more than be offset by the huge increase in on-road productivity. $45-at-overtime overallowed hours for drivers would decrease...miles spent shagging misloads would decrease...missed packages would decrease...at the "cost" of slight drop in PPH generated by those whose wages are the lowest.

That's a good thought

 

[BCFan]

It's a scam because it asks you your tenure at UPS. We have several employees with 15+ years service and within their individual work areas, that singles them out. Mgmt knows exactly who is doing the survey, in some cases, by tenure.

It's a waste because of what you said.

It's a scam because, in the management/employee relationship view, in many cases management are shifted around like a shell game and the end-user (employee) , when confronted with a specific question about those relations, doesn't know which of 15 supervisors in the past year they are addressing or assessing.

and so on..

LIE about all info truck size tenure etc...... BC

 

[DS]

That's a good thought

Pretz...that was a kinda lame response to to a realistic approach to accountability.
If the ERI relates to your immediate supervisor,answering questions about things he/she have
no control over is both irrelevant,and dishonest.
In the past I used my 300 characters to vent,and speak my opinion,this year.
I hope to elude the survey.because its total crap.

 

[mike1646]

It was my turn today, we had 30 minutes to complete. I had a good 10.25 hour day