From Part Time to 22.3 Questions

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Unlucky Guy, Apr 3, 2008.

  1. Unlucky Guy

    Unlucky Guy New Member

    Hello Everyone, I am new to this forum. I have some questions and hope you can help me out.

    Just a little background first.

    I have been a part time UPS preload employee for 14+ years and have held another non-union part time job outside of UPS(better pay, no benefits or pension). Basically UPS was for the benefits, pension and extra cash my other job paid the bills.

    Recently my other job has started to cut back and from other employees there I have heard the next wave (August-October) I'll probably be gone unless I transfer to full time work in another state.

    Since I will not be pursuing my other job, due to no benefits and no pension I will be pursuing a 22.3 job at UPS.

    My questions are:

    1) Is there a list of terms and benefits (not medical but job related, preferably an online document) that will affect me by going from part to full time? My shop steward said he would get me them but hasn't delivered as of a week and a half. Also, I will be looking for an in building job, I do not want to become a driver.

    2) I have heard conflicting stories about pay. I currently make $21+ and was wondering if I switch to full time will I get a pay decrease or will my hourly wage stay the same? If decrease what is the starting hourly wage?

    3) I hear there is a waiting list for the 22.3 jobs and that you are put on by seniority. I also heard that the list is VERY long, a friend of mine that has been at UPS for 10 years has been on the list 6 months and is currently 80th in the queue. Is the waiting time for these jobs that long? How often are 22.3 Jobs offered?

    4) Will my seniority stay the same when I get a full time position? Will I have 14+ years of part time seniority and then start over for full time seniority or will my seniority continue?

    5) Will my vacation time stay the same? I currently have 3 and option with another coming after I hit 15 years, Is this the same formula for full time?

    I am sure there are more questions I am going to have but that's it for now. Sorry for my ignorance but I have tried both in building and on the Internet to obtain info and have come up dry.

    Thank you in advance for your help.
     
  2. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    You will keep your vacations as of your part-time seniority date.

    You will lose your seniority for bidding or seniority purposes, though.

    I'd be surprised if you got a 22.3 job at this point. There are no new ones gauranteed by contract, so it's going to be difficult. I am a 22.3 closing in on 2 years, 6+ years total.

    Regarding pay,

    Your rate of pay will drop initially;
    a combo inside/outside job is less of a cut than an inside/inside.

    If the job's inside - inside 22.3, you'll only start at 15/hr until you top out after 3 years.

    If you're inside/outside, it'll be 20 hours at 15/hr and 20 hours at your part-time rate of 21/hr.
    Unless you are Tue-S, then it's obviously 24 hours at 15/hr and 16 hours 21/hr. The progression is only two years for inside/outside.

    Hope this helps.
     
  3. outamyway

    outamyway New Member

    Hard to pursue a 22.3 job. As per the new contract no new 22.3 jobs will be created. If someone quits, gets fired or moves on to another position, their 22.3 position has to become available for bid(one of the few good things about our new contract).

    If your center is big enough and there are enough combos you may get lucky in the near future. Otherwise I wouldn't hold my breathe.
     
  4. FAVREFAN

    FAVREFAN Member

    Although these numbers may be true in your local, they are much different in mine. In my local, he would stay at $21+ and be frozen there until the 3 year progression is over and then he would go to top of scale.
    Go to your BA. These things vary greatly from local to local. I know, it's B.S. but it is what it is.
    Oh, yeah. And no vacations the first year. Payed off instead.
     
  5. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    I believe that is national.

    If a part-time employee bids into a full-time inside only job, and his/her rate is higher than the progression rate, they get the part-time rate they had prior to the bid even if it's above top rate.
     
  6. FAVREFAN

    FAVREFAN Member

    He'd stay at $21+ in my local and get no raise until the 2 or 3 year progression is over because he is above the scale start rate and below the top of $22.62. I wonder though, what rate would he get in your area if he were to go 22.3 now?
     
  7. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    Depends on the 22.3 job.

    Inside/outside, he'd get 21/hr for inside hours (PT rate) and $15 outside (starting FT air driver rate). After 2 year progression, he'd get 21/hr inside and 22.62 outside (minus the annual raises etc)

    Inside/Inside, he'd get 21/hr all hours, until he finished the 3 years like you mentioned....then he'd top out.

    This is all in the national.

    If a 30 year part-timer went inside/inside 22.3, he'd make well above the 22.62 top rate as it's grandfathered.
     
  8. cajunboy

    cajunboy New Member

    I am in the same boat that you are. I was a stand alone air driver making top rate. I bid on a 22.3 job, and asked for a pay inquiry from the company so I would know what my pay would be. The problem is now that I have taken the job they have told me the pay is different.

    Contractually since I am a combo driver/loader they are telling me I take a dive in my driving part. it is a $7 and hour cut. I believe I should be red circled according to article 41 in the contract. My bid states combination, and not full time air driver as in article 40 that would make me take a pay cut. What does anyone think of this?

    cajunboy
     
  9. cajunboy

    cajunboy New Member

    I am in the same boat that you are. I was a stand alone air driver making top rate. I bid on a 22.3 job, and asked for a pay inquiry from the company so I would know what my pay would be. The problem is now that I have taken the job they have told me the pay is different.

    Contractually since I am a combo driver/loader they are telling me I take a dive in my driving part. it is a $7 and hour cut. I believe I should be red circled according to article 41 in the contract. My bid states combination, and not full time air driver as in article 40 that would make me take a pay cut. What does anyone think of this?
     
  10. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    No, the inside work is the pay cut unless you have many years with the company. It's my understanding that you'll make a part-time wage for the loading and full-time driver top rate for air driving. This of course after you finish progression.

    Of course if you have say 20 years with the company, the part-time wage for loading will be higher than the 22.62 top wage for air driving.

    The job you took, an inside-outside job, you are considered a full-time air driver only by pay scale and not by classification.
     
  11. cajunboy

    cajunboy New Member

    My concern is that I am beginning my progression right now. So based on that am I to take a pay cut, or am I red circled?
    cajunboy
     
  12. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    You do take a pay rate cut to my knowledge for the driving duties. . In-out combo you get a part-time rate equiv to your part-time seniority for inside work and then progression rate for the air work.
     
  13. cajunboy

    cajunboy New Member

    Good answer, but where I enjoy this where does this say this for my reference in the contract. Are you familiar with article 40, and article 41 in the contract. Article 40 deals with air driver pay. Section 1 is progression for part time air, and the second section is for full time air driving. Article 41 deals with company full time employees. Am I a full time air driver, or a full time employee since my duties are split up. If I am the latter then I am red circled in my pay according to article 41.cajunboy
     
  14. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    It's under article 41.

    When a part-time employee moves into a full-time combination job (inside inside, inside outside) and their inside rate is above the progression rate, all of the inside work is paid at their higher part-time rate.

    So if you bid an inside only job, you would have made out nicely if your current rate exceeds 22.62 and never taken a cut.

    You are not considered a full-time air driver by classification, but by wage scale you are for your hours worked outside. You must begin a new progression because part-time air driver and full-time air driver are completely different classifications.


    "Part-time employees whose rates are higher than those set forth above below who bid into a full-time
    inside job covered by this Section shall be paid their current inside wage rate plus the general wage
    increases."

    None of this type of language is in article 40 air, carrying down your part-time air driver rate into 22.3
     
  15. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    Ask a shop steward or union rep? That's your best bet, they'll be able to help you more.
     
  16. Oh trust me when i tell you that if you go from part time to a 22.3 job you will take some sort of a cut in pay!!! I just went to a 22.3 job from part time Air Driving with 6 years service on road and i took a 7.00 plus cut in pay and was told that i would have to go through seniority all over again which i think is absolute crap!!!! Now having to start all over again is not an easy pill to swallow!!! I would think twice about going 22.3 unless it will be to your benefit!!! But make sure to check into it before committing yourself cause once you go full time there is no going back to part time without a big fight from the company!!!
     
  17. Nitelite

    Nitelite Member

    Umm, No. I just went 22.3 2 months ago myself after being part-time for 13 years and I kept my rate ($20.47). Granted, it is an inside/inside job, so maybe its different for air drivers, but I don't know anyone who have had a paycut when going ft from pt
     
  18. cajunboy

    cajunboy New Member

    To you who kept your inside rate. I AM FOR YOU, but you best not show your pay stub to labor or you will be raped financially. Good job, take the golden egg and run with it. Get as much out of the brown pig as possible. What local are you in? I will add that local to my short list of locals with a backbone.
    cajunboy
     
  19. brownrodster

    brownrodster New Member

    Last new 22.3 guy in my building I talked to took a pay cut down to new 22.3 starting wage and had to go through progression. He took a huge pay cut. Mayb he could have gone to the union and fought this but he didn't.
     
  20. cajunboy

    cajunboy New Member

    I took it all the way I could. We went to arbitration, and got our tail end handed to us. After much discovery in arbitration part of the fn problem was that our fn union sold us out. As UPS employees pt air drivers are the only ones that have to go through two different progressions. Here is the funny part. Prior to taking my 22.3 I did a pay inquiry with the company and had it in writing that I would keep my top rate for air driving, but would be lowered to the inside rate for my inside work. Then after I had my job for a week those yahoo's rescinded the pay rate.
    At arbitration the idiots did not think a $7 hr pay cut was significant, and there was a change in article 40 submitted to the union, but in efforts to improve inside ft progressions the change was the conceeded by the Teamsters. It also mentioned that on three occations in the contract part time employees hired onto full time would be considered newly hired. Bitter pill to swallow my ass... This is one of the largest dissappointments of my entire freakin career with UPs (rest assured this will not be the last). I hope that everyone who reads this comes to 1 resolve. FILE whenevery you see a sup doing our work.
    cajunboy
    Ps. I feel good after this rant tx :)