guns

[DriveInDriveOut]

Carry laws have nothing to do with crime rates. Even if they did, there's way too many factors involved in crime rates to make a legitimate statistical connection.

People on both side of the debate try to make the connection and they always look like fools to me. It's either a constitutional right or it isn't, talking statistics is nothing but a distraction that both sides waste their time with. Let the courts decide.

 

[wayfair]

Carry laws have nothing to do with crime rates. Even if they did, there's way too many factors involved in crime rates to make a legitimate statistical connection.

People on both side of the debate try to make the connection and they always look like fools to me. It's either a constitutional right or it isn't, talking statistics is nothing but a distraction that both sides waste their time with. Let the courts decide.

you're right, the one's legally carrying aren't out there protecting everyones elses rights, just their own... that's the law... A CC carrier isn't some sort of super hero, just one that wants to protect himself and his family...that's what it's for

 

[wayfair]

 

[bbsam]

you're right, the one's legally carrying aren't out there protecting everyones elses rights, just their own... that's the law... A CC carrier isn't some sort of super hero, just one that wants to protect himself and his family...that's what it's for

Well now that's a different tune from what all the NRA folks sing after mass shootings.

 

[wayfair]

Well now that's a different tune from what all the NRA folks sing after mass shootings.

look up the
number CC members that who used their right, later got fired due to company policy
http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/06/federal_appeals_court_affirms.html

 

[bbsam]

look up the
number CC members that who used their right, later got fired due to company policy
http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/06/federal_appeals_court_affirms.html

I know. it's exactly the point I was making after the Colorado movie theater shootings.

 

[soberups]

And Chicago is in Illinois and last I checked (about a month ago) Illinois' "conceal/carry" laws aren't all that extreme. I could easily obtain one.

You can thank the NRA and 5 conservative Supreme Court justices for that. Prior to the Mcdonald decision, it was impossible to even own a handgun legally in Chicago, much less carry one concealed. Illinois and Chicago have been drug by the hair, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century when it comes to respecting the 2nd Amendment rights of their citizens.

 

[bbsam]

You can thank the NRA and 5 conservative Supreme Court justices for that. Prior to the Mcdonald decision, it was impossible to even own a handgun legally in Chicago, much less carry one concealed. Illinois and Chicago have been drug by the hair, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century when it comes to respecting the 2nd Amendment rights of their citizens.

But you are skirting the issue now. Soon after Illinois' had an open conceal/carry pass and citizens began exercising these rights, crime seemed to drop and the NRA folks walked tall and thumped their chests claiming credit. But now, less than two years later, violent crime in Chicago is still common. What happened and where's the bravado now?

 

[Babagounj]

I was watching the movie Original Gangstas ( 1996 ).
This movie could be remade today easily .
It is about gang violence in a inner city that shows that nothing has chanced in the 20 years since it was released .
Young black males only belong to gangs , who can get any weapons they want . They are free to rob & kill anyone they want .
The final act has dialogue about boys growing up without a father around .
The only difference between 1996 and 2016 was that everyone had their pants up and belted .

 

[soberups]

But you are skirting the issue now. Soon after Illinois' had an open conceal/carry pass and citizens began exercising these rights, crime seemed to drop and the NRA folks walked tall and thumped their chests claiming credit. But now, less than two years later, violent crime in Chicago is still common. What happened and where's the bravado now?

A large number of the violent crime and killings are gang related, a statistic that would be relatively unaffected by concealed carry laws.

And in any case, I am willing to admit that more concealed carry permits or increased gun ownership by law abiding citizens may have little or nothing to do with a decrease in gun violence. But that isnt really the point. The antis keep screaming that we have a gun problem and that more restrictions are needed to save lives. The 45% decrease in gun deaths since 1991 combined with the number of legally owned guns being at an all time high proves that they are wrong. We dont have a gun problem, we have a media bias problem.

 

[bbsam]

So if sociological issues are to blame for the high suicide rate in nations like Japan with little to no legal gun ownership...would it not be equally fair to blame sociological issues on the high murder rate in US cities like Chicago that also have little or no legal gun ownership?

You cant have it both ways...

But you seem to say here that the problem is that "only the criminals have guns". When it's obvious that arming the "good guys" hasn't really dropped gun violence, now the problem is "media bias".

I think we were closer in identifying other social issues and mental illness as the true problems. It may well be that the existence or nonexistence of gun laws has nothing to do with the solution, but let's not lose sight of the problem chasing "media bias".

 

[ImWaitingForTheDay]

 

[Babagounj]

http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/19/firearms-industry-economic-impact-rises-158-since-2008/

The total economic impact of the firearms and ammunition industry in the United States increased from $19.1 billion in 2008 to $49.3 billion in 2015, a 158 percent increase, while the total number of full-time equivalent jobs rose from approximately 166,000 to almost 288,000, a 73 percent increase in that period, according to a report released today by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the industry’s trade association.
On a year-over-year basis, the industry’s economic impact rose from $43 billion in 2014 to $49.3 in 2015, a nearly 15 percent increase while total jobs increased from approximately 263,000 to almost 288,000, a 9 percent increase in the same period.

 

[moreluck]

 

[Sportello]

What?????

Your meme's are really low effort posts, most good forums don't allow them in every thread.

Why don't you ask Cheryl for a political meme thread?

Never mind, I will. Hey Cheryl, how about a thread just for memes?

Moreluck could then post something of her own, and sum it up by saying, "this meme perfectly expresses what I believe". That way I , and the majority of the forum, wouldn't have to put up with the nonsense, or something like that.

 

[MAKAVELI]

What?????

Your meme's are really low effort posts, most good forums don't allow them in every thread.

Why don't you ask Cheryl for a political meme thread?

Never mind, I will. Hey Cheryl, how about a thread just for memes?

Moreluck could then post something of her own, and sum it up by saying, "this meme perfectly expresses what I believe". That way I , and the majority of the forum, wouldn't have to put up with the nonsense, or something like that.

I think moreluck is actually advocating for the legalization of all drugs.

 

[wayfair]

What?????

Your meme's are really low effort posts, most good forums don't allow them in every thread.

Why don't you ask Cheryl for a political meme thread?

Never mind, I will. Hey Cheryl, how about a thread just for memes?

Moreluck could then post something of her own, and sum it up by saying, "this meme perfectly expresses what I believe". That way I , and the majority of the forum, wouldn't have to put up with the nonsense, or something like that.

seriously??? log out man, log out

 

[soberups]

 

[realbrown1]

But you are skirting the issue now. Soon after Illinois' had an open conceal/carry pass and citizens began exercising these rights, crime seemed to drop and the NRA folks walked tall and thumped their chests claiming credit. But now, less than two years later, violent crime in Chicago is still common. What happened and where's the bravado now?

Chicago will continue to be mess.

Liberal Democrats are in charge.

GI've it another 20 years, and you'll have Chicago looking more and more like Detroit.

 

[bbsam]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...709RT8f5NMhzImXbA&sig2=sXIeKYh52GOTV_XrjqVi9w

So you agree?