How many times can they ride with you

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by abrownclown, May 24, 2008.

  1. abrownclown

    abrownclown Guest

    I have had an Ojs ride this year, a Space and visibility, The center manager was following me around and then decided to jump on the car with me for a few stops last month, and now they are threatening me with another Ojs ride and a warning letter if i screw up on any of the methods.

    Just how many times can they ride with you? From what i read under article 37 section 2 " "No driver will be scheduled for more than one days ride per year with one member of management on the car. Such a day will not be used for disciplinary purposes".

    Bottom line is i come in over 9.5 a couple of days a week when they stop count is jacked up or when im blown out. They don't like that..
  2. tritese

    tritese tritese

    they can only ride once a year here too.......unless you have an accident
  3. broncobros1

    broncobros1 New Member

    I believe that they can do a 2-3 production ride if you are continually running over-allowed...there might be some other circumstances on the route that are making you over or the schedules might be wrong. Do a lot of these rides in feeders where I am. If they do the ride and by a miracle you are way better, I believe that they can benchmark your time and stops at a "best demonstrated performance" and hold you too it...takes a lot of documentation and follow up though...
  4. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    Why don't you just work by "their Methods", which is what UPS pays you to do, and then they will not want to ride with you. This takes longer than taking "shortcuts", so you will make more money. If you are over dispatched, that is the Center Management Team's fault, not yours. If you are over allowed too much, maybe you are loosing too much time somehow and the Sup can tell you why. I would rather clock out and go home sooner anyway.
  5. BigBrownSanta

    BigBrownSanta New Member

    My advice to you is use your methods, every single one of them. This is not a friendly, "why does your route not plan" ride.

    This is to lock you into a SPORH that you cannot reasonably achieve every single day. They will use the SPORH to harass you until they can fire you.

    We had a guy that skipped his lunch during his rides and his SPORH was very high. He now wants to take his lunch and cannot maintain his "best demonstrated performance" and they are trying to get him fired.
  6. Johney

    Johney Raise your hand if you think Upstate is a D-Bag

    These rides also always seem to come on very light days and after a part time sup has set your car up stop for stop, put all labels up and wrote sequence #'s on the side of every box. I've always thought if they want to "LOCK" you into these SPORH, then they should be done on a day the on-road choose's and on a day YOU choose then compare days. I know this will never happen.:whiteflag:
  7. JustTired

    JustTired free at last.......

    Heck....they can come out and ride with me every long as they buy lunch!!!!
  8. suffolk_804

    suffolk_804 Suffolk_804

    in the past four years never been ojs or had a safety ride
  9. worthlessdriver

    worthlessdriver New Member

    Here we go again with the SPORH, and the "best demonstrated performance" B.S.
    I have asked the question before and I will ask again. Have you known anyone that has been fired for not making SPORH?
    For the last 30 years I have been hearing this but I have never seen one that has actually stuck. I haven't.
  10. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    Nope, not in my 24 years in Package. I have seen certain people kept under their eye a lot and maybe disciplined more, but not fired.
  11. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    I have had only one OJS ride in 12 yrs.
    He could only find two things wrong that I had done during the day.
    Bring those OJS's on, maybe I could show them how to run and dispatch a route.
  12. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    Here's some things you should do anytime a sup is with you, for any stated reason. Always...ALWAYS take your full meal and break times at the suggested times by contract. Never allow the sup to do anything that will increase your SPORH, such as sorting while you deliver, open doors for you, carry any packages, stack the hand truck while you pull packages, etc etc. Visually make notes of anything he does that will pump your numbers.
    If the sup demands that he should demonstrate how to do a method, make him show you the same method several times because you don't understand what he/she is trying to teach you. If you suspect your load is intentionally and out of the ordinary loaded better than usual note that and let the sup know that it is so. Of course you should always be using the proper work methods, as trained, as to your best knowledge. There is a chance that you are unconsciously doing some things wrong that you can correct to make your day go better, so do pay attention when they are instructing. However if they seem to be changing the rules, let them know that also. Never accept any comparison of your your performance to that of another, we are all different.
    If you have a small digital camera take photos of your daily load for a while, and on the day of the ride just prior to leaving the building.
    As far as I know (haven't reread the newest contract) there is no mention of being held accountable for SPORH, over allowed , "best demonstrated" performance, or a specific detail of what a "fair days work" means. There is no mention that the "fair days work" is determined by the company.

    The bottom line is that YOU know whether or not you are doing the job to the best of your ability with the tools ( tools here includes decent loads) they provide you. If you are, continue to do so. If not, fix it yourself starting Tuesday morning. Do your job as trained, take your meal and break times as prescribed by contract and if you work over 9.5 three days in a week, file a grievance. The target is already on your back, hold them accountable for their end of the contract as well.
    At one point a few years ago, I had a sup ride with me on what he called a space and vis ride, at every stop he stayed in the back of the truck sorting, pulling up sections and determining where to go next. The next AM they had me in the office to rake me over the coals saying I was slacking when the sup was not with me.
  13. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    We have had one in my 20 years here stick. It was a long drawn out process, but there was a driver fired for running over repeatedly and it did stick. But your point is valid, it's a hard fight just to get someone gone
  14. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt


    You have made the most common mistake when reading that article.

    The part you are refering to states " No driver will be scheduled for more than one (1) day's ride per year with more than one (1) member of management on the car."

    Most people when reading that stop at "per year" with out reading the rest.

    Bottom line.... they can ride with you as many times as they want.

    Thats why section 3 of the same article provides that if you feel it is excessive you have the right to protest it with a grievance.... and they can't ride with you until the grievance has been resolved.

    Generally, the company doesn't have the time or manpower to ride with a driver too excess and because it consitutes harsassment.

    Some of the other opinion's on this thread think they can't lock you into "demonstrated level of performance". Think again. Fair day's work.

    Can they talk about SPORH ?? Sure. Hold you accountable ?? Depends.

    If they do a performance ride and you run 15 stops per hour, but then you drop to 11 when you are on your own.... You'll get more rides.

    The Company has to tell you what the purpose of a ride is.... if you ask.

  15. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    B.U.G. is correct, management can ride with you pretty much at their discretion and at some point the panel will accept your demonstrated level of performance with a supervisor on the car as a standard for a fair days work.

    Around here you get a 3-day ride, and they take your worst day out of those 3 days and that's the standard you have to meet. Keep in mind that it takes a long time and lot of ill will before they get to the point of giving you that 3-day lock in ride, but it's been done to a few drivers.

    Firing somebody for failing to meet that standard is an even longer process, but as tourists24 noted it is possible. Give them enough rope and eventually they will hang you with it.
  16. worthlessdriver

    worthlessdriver New Member

    I have been hearing this threat for 30 years but I have never seen a driver miss a single day because of a "lock in". We have drivers running hours over and nothing happens. I have seen drivers with a 3 day ride and as soon as the sup is not on the car they go back to their old ways and nothing happens. If they could fire them then why didn't they? Maybe they were short driver and needed them to cover a rt. But who looks like the fool the center manager or the driver.
    When you keep making empty threats eventually nobody cares, as in the case of warning letters, they give out so many in our center the drivers just laugh at them.
    I guess my point is that if you are going to make the threat you had better be willing to follow through on it or you lose all creditability.
  17. Bad Gas!

    Bad Gas! Active Member

    My question: How can more than one mgt person ride with you with only one jump seat?...and if they talk about in-cab distractions and wasted flesh in your way....I've never seen anyone fired for performance.But they get put on the microscope list to get fired for something else..And we all make mistakes....Our center allowances are so bad that unless you are more than an hour over,it's like you are a scratch driver.Many drivers are 1 hour and a half to two hours...and in some cases four hours over on the industrial routes...What used to be a bonus center is strictly O.T. now...I think 3 lunch skippers scratch out of 54 routes...LOL
  18. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    I was really struggling as a new hire in 1988, and my sup was riding with me and she couldnt help me improve, so one day my center manager joined both of us on a P600. My sup sat in the jump seat, and my center manager stood between the stickshift and the bulkhead door with her left hand on my shoulder and her right hand holding the bulkhead door chain. It was the ride from hell, I think they both forgot to take their Midol that morning. It probably didnt help that I had a hangover. The three of us got in each others way and made each other miserable for about 12 hours.
  19. Mike Hawk

    Mike Hawk New Member

    That must be some old old contract language, I can't see how that would be legal now days. If I was a supe doing a ride with a not so happy driver and another supe, I would not want to be at the mercy of his brake pedal standing behind the stick shift.
  20. rod

    rod retired and happy

    Brings back memories of my old supe ending up in my lap when I took a sharp corner with her and my center manager with. I had a golden oppertunity to let her fly out the drivers door (later on I wished I had a couple of times) but I grabbed her and hit the brakes. She was all shook up so they both got out and called to be picked up and that was it for my ride along that day.:happy2: P.S. She wasn't even good looking so grabbing her was no thrill