I thought I worked for Ground

[Brown287]

Clueless? Maybe so. People at Lehman Brothers thought they had a future. Same at Enron. Lots of UAW people out of work after 20 years service. Lots of truck drivers out of work. Perhaps a future isn't guaranteed anywhere. Clueless? Maybe not.

Bbsam you are absolutely correct about no guarantees anywhere. The thing is though that A. two things don't make a right, B. that these other companies mentioned where not really profitable, and C. I think that we both can agree on the fact that FedEx is not going out of business.

The way FedEx runs there business can be viewed as brilliant on one hand but irresponsible on the other hand. Employees are not merely a tool and any company that has viewed them as such has eventually suffered the consequences. You yourself have mentioned that you pay your employees as well as you can and you have incentives to stimulate more production and safer drivers, so you obviously see my point. FedEx will suffer in the long term until they realize this, and now is it really fare to you and your employees that this will in no doubt negatively effect you guys.

Life is not fare but FedEx has plenty of history to examine to see how to properly treat their employees.

 

[FedEx courier]

Clueless? Maybe so. People at Lehman Brothers thought they had a future. Same at Enron. Lots of UAW people out of work after 20 years service. Lots of truck drivers out of work. Perhaps a future isn't guaranteed anywhere. Clueless? Maybe not.

A future isn't guaranteed anymore because companies continue to outsource jobs. Just like FedEx outsourcing it's entire "ground" workforce to IC's. When all the decent jobs disappear people have no choice but to work these types of jobs and hope that their employer is a fair person. You obviously get off on boasting about how you aren't fair so I guess it has all gone in the hole.

 

[vantexan]

Clueless? Maybe so. People at Lehman Brothers thought they had a future. Same at Enron. Lots of UAW people out of work after 20 years service. Lots of truck drivers out of work. Perhaps a future isn't guaranteed anywhere. Clueless? Maybe not.

Not a valid analogy. You are pointing out people who were compensated well for what they did, good benefits too. I'm betting a UAW worker with 20 years service has money in the bank to fall back on in bad times. Lord knows Lehman employees should.

 

[MrFedEx]

Clueless? Maybe so. People at Lehman Brothers thought they had a future. Same at Enron. Lots of UAW people out of work after 20 years service. Lots of truck drivers out of work. Perhaps a future isn't guaranteed anywhere. Clueless? Maybe not.

I also say those are bad analogies. Nothing is ever 100%, but your Ground drivers start-out on the crap end of the stick and stay there. All of the companies you refer to had benefits and decent, if not excellent wages. As an IC, you have no guarantees either, but you do have the expectation that you will earn a high enough profit margin off your sweatshop employees in order to afford yourself insurance and other benefits that normally accompany a decent job.

And you do seem to be clueless when it comes to the utter lack of business ethics at FedEx, both at Ground and Express. The second you get hurt or otherwise become a liability at Express, they are actively looking at ways to send you down the highway. It starts at the very top, and runs all the way downhill through the company. Maybe all you're interested in is making a buck, and the more you post the more I'm convinced you're a Fred S kind of guy. That isn't a compliment. When all you focus on is profit and then forget about the human beings that generate said profit for you, then you're no better than that POS SOB who runs FDX.

 

[bbsam]

The reason that the analogies are correct is that the demise happened over time. MrFedex refered to me as "clueless" because Fedex would not keep it's relationship with me given certain future developments. The particulars therefore are inconsequential to the overall point. Companies have in the past and probably will in the future reneg on contractual obligations. How good the contract is (i.e. benefits, pension, 401k) does not matter to the larger point that down the road and over time Fedex may indeed move to a different model. So be it. Perhaps I would change for the times, or separate from the company and go elsewhere. Or I could stay, be miserable, and bitch about how I wish things were the way they used to be. As I've said before, nothing promised, nothing stolen.

 

[vantexan]

The reason that the analogies are correct is that the demise happened over time. MrFedex refered to me as "clueless" because Fedex would not keep it's relationship with me given certain future developments. The particulars therefore are inconsequential to the overall point. Companies have in the past and probably will in the future reneg on contractual obligations. How good the contract is (i.e. benefits, pension, 401k) does not matter to the larger point that down the road and over time Fedex may indeed move to a different model. So be it. Perhaps I would change for the times, or separate from the company and go elsewhere. Or I could stay, be miserable, and bitch about how I wish things were the way they used to be. As I've said before, nothing promised, nothing stolen.

But that's just it, we were promised things, had the best years of our lives stolen while working to receive those reneged on promises. If someone signs on with you they go in with eyes open, knowing the job is what it is. We however were led to believe we had a good future if we stuck with FedEx. Now apparently they have developed a system based on a revolving door of using people until they quit in frustration. Works for them, they can replace with a cheaper worker. Give them a small payout, wash the company hands of any future obligations.

 

[bbsam]

But that's just it, we were promised things, had the best years of our lives stolen while working to receive those reneged on promises. If someone signs on with you they go in with eyes open, knowing the job is what it is. We however were led to believe we had a good future if we stuck with FedEx. Now apparently they have developed a system based on a revolving door of using people until they quit in frustration. Works for them, they can replace with a cheaper worker. Give them a small payout, wash the company hands of any future obligations.

Exactly. And now we find out in all the analogies I put forth, that their promises mean nothing. History on this point is clear. And we find out that they can either legally do it or with little ramification, do it illegally. Look, I'm not Pro-Fedex. I simply have come to like the business model. If they made us all employees tomorrow I'm not sure how long I'd stay. But it is a possibility and no future is guaranteed. To think otherwise is...well clueless.

 

[MrFedEx]

Exactly. And now we find out in all the analogies I put forth, that their promises mean nothing. History on this point is clear. And we find out that they can either legally do it or with little ramification, do it illegally. Look, I'm not Pro-Fedex. I simply have come to like the business model. If they made us all employees tomorrow I'm not sure how long I'd stay. But it is a possibility and no future is guaranteed. To think otherwise is...well clueless.

Vantexan put it very well. There are never any "guarantees", but Fred S did a complete flip-flop on his people, and a lot of us made a decision to stay with FedEx long-term based on his false "promises". And they were promises. Management frequently told us that our wages would stay within a dollar or two of UPS in return for our continued allegiance to FedEx and avoiding a union. We used to have meetings where senior managers would take polls asking if we were "becoming too much like UPS" or "are our wages keeping pace"? That all stopped in the late 80's when Smith decided we were going to become WalMart with wheels.

I never would have made a commitment to this company if I had an inkling of the direction they were going to take and how Smith completely reneged on his former philosophies. Now that we're in our 40's or 50's it isn't easy to switch careers. Thanks Fred! You miserable SOB.

 

[bbsam]

Welcome to the jungle, MrFedex. Now you are no longer clueless. You're welcome.

 

[vantexan]

Exactly. And now we find out in all the analogies I put forth, that their promises mean nothing. History on this point is clear. And we find out that they can either legally do it or with little ramification, do it illegally. Look, I'm not Pro-Fedex. I simply have come to like the business model. If they made us all employees tomorrow I'm not sure how long I'd stay. But it is a possibility and no future is guaranteed. To think otherwise is...well clueless.

Rather than clueless we can take a stand and say the world doesn't revolve around the bank accounts of a blessed few. Some things are more important than money, like honor and integrity. Common decency. Doing the right thing. You sleep with your business model. I'll keep tilting at windmills.

 

[bbsam]

Rather than clueless we can take a stand and say the world doesn't revolve around the bank accounts of a blessed few. Some things are more important than money, like honor and integrity. Common decency. Doing the right thing. You sleep with your business model. I'll keep tilting at windmills.

Ride forth brave Faramir, Captain of Gondor. Ride on with your galant Rohirrim and may the spirit of Boromir guide you in your darkest hour.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

bbsam's employees are not indentured servants. The specifics of their employment, to include compensation, were discussed prior to employment and accepting the offer of employment conveyed acceptance of those specifics. bbsam has every right to turn a profit and if he is able to find qualified employees willing to work within those specifics then more power to him.

Do I think it fair that I make nearly 2 1/2 times what a Ground driver makes, plus benefits? Of course not, but bbsam has to work within the parameters set by FedEx. He wouldn't last too long as a contractor if he was paying his guys $20/hr while earning only $15/hr in revenue.

 

[vantexan]

bbsam's employees are not indentured servants. The specifics of their employment, to include compensation, were discussed prior to employment and accepting the offer of employment conveyed acceptance of those specifics. bbsam has every right to turn a profit and if he is able to find qualified employees willing to work within those specifics then more power to him.

Do I think it fair that I make nearly 2 1/2 times what a Ground driver makes, plus benefits? Of course not, but bbsam has to work within the parameters set by FedEx. He wouldn't last too long as a contractor if he was paying his guys $20/hr while earning only $15/hr in revenue.

As I said, those he hires go in with their eyes open. They know the score, the job is what it is. What I'm objecting to is his characterizing our permanent hire positions in the same light. I'm assuming he's not promising things he has no intention of delivering on. But FedEx mgmt has a long history of assuring us rewards down the road in return for our hard work and best efforts. Think of it as an investment. If you put your money in an account of a firm with a great reputation you expect solid returns that'll see you through your later years. Imagine finding out that Bernie Madoff isn't who you thought he was. And he's been living very well off your investment while every year he sent you info telling how well you'll do if you stick with him. I'm not just talking about the pension either. BBSam apparently has no qualms working others very hard for very little as long as he does well. Is it any wonder he found his way to a company with a similar philosophy?

 

[bbsam]

Vantexan, I have stated that Fred and other companies reneg on promises all the time and legal or not, they get away with it. I have no qualms with hard work whatsoever, mine or someone elses. How well one is compensated is a matter of personal perspective. Does he/she compare his pay to what a UPS driver makes? If so, he probably feels screwed. But that apparently is not the only measure people use to decide whether to stay at Ground. And believe me, I've been there. I spent a year working as a cab driver in a very small city making $2.01 an hour plus tips after 6 years as a UPS loader on the twilight shift and a year as a driver. So I understand the frustration and the waiting for something better to come along. For me, Ground (RPS) was the something better to come along and the rewards have been better than expected. It is possible for that to be true for others as well, but it takes a different focus. Don't look for a pension or insurance. I think industries everywhere are jettisoning those perks anyway. Ground offers other opportunity. That opportunity is not something everyone will want to take on. It has it's own challenges. But it is what it is and nothing else.

If you look in other places on this forum, I think you will find others who's opinion on the 2013 contract shows similar angst to yours. Companies are throttling employees to squeeze the bottom line. The contract they have now is often ignored and grievances bottled up. Fedex is the fasttract to where UPS management would take it's company if only the could do away with the pesky union and contract.

And none of this is defending that companies break promises and contracts at the drop of a hat. Only the observation that they do so with impunity.

 

[vantexan]

Vantexan, I have stated that Fred and other companies reneg on promises all the time and legal or not, they get away with it. I have no qualms with hard work whatsoever, mine or someone elses. How well one is compensated is a matter of personal perspective. Does he/she compare his pay to what a UPS driver makes? If so, he probably feels screwed. But that apparently is not the only measure people use to decide whether to stay at Ground. And believe me, I've been there. I spent a year working as a cab driver in a very small city making $2.01 an hour plus tips after 6 years as a UPS loader on the twilight shift and a year as a driver. So I understand the frustration and the waiting for something better to come along. For me, Ground (RPS) was the something better to come along and the rewards have been better than expected. It is possible for that to be true for others as well, but it takes a different focus. Don't look for a pension or insurance. I think industries everywhere are jettisoning those perks anyway. Ground offers other opportunity. That opportunity is not something everyone will want to take on. It has it's own challenges. But it is what it is and nothing else.

If you look in other places on this forum, I think you will find others who's opinion on the 2013 contract shows similar angst to yours. Companies are throttling employees to squeeze the bottom line. The contract they have now is often ignored and grievances bottled up. Fedex is the fasttract to where UPS management would take it's company if only the could do away with the pesky union and contract.

And none of this is defending that companies break promises and contracts at the drop of a hat. Only the observation that they do so with impunity.

Yeah, I guess you are right. Given the choice to do the right thing for their employees or to maximize profit to please stockholders it's obvious what choice companies will make if nothing stands in their way. All the more reason to get a good education in this dog-eat-dog world.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Getting a good education is essential but offers no guarantees. You would be surprised as to how many of us here have college degrees.

 

[MrFedEx]

bbsam's employees are not indentured servants. The specifics of their employment, to include compensation, were discussed prior to employment and accepting the offer of employment conveyed acceptance of those specifics. bbsam has every right to turn a profit and if he is able to find qualified employees willing to work within those specifics then more power to him.

Do I think it fair that I make nearly 2 1/2 times what a Ground driver makes, plus benefits? Of course not, but bbsam has to work within the parameters set by FedEx. He wouldn't last too long as a contractor if he was paying his guys $20/hr while earning only $15/hr in revenue.

Good points. I don't blame bbsam for the inequities in the Ground model...I blame the FedEx Corporation. As you said, they set the parameters, and those parameters are unfair and exploitative.