Dear Probe
Let me address some of your points where you have a serious lack of understanding.
P.S. - In answer to your final question, "Yes", I did spend several years behind the wheel of a UPS vehicle. However, I hope you can discern from my comments that my experience with the company goes a bit beyond such a limited exposure frame.
When a poster uses quotations around a word, it alters that yes. So while you tried to indicate that you did spend several years behind the wheel of a UPS vehicle, it does not at all mean that you ever worked hourly. For all we know, you had a UPS supplied Lexus that you drove to work, which theoretically allows you to say "yes".
Clever, but then you wonder why the hourly dont believe a word that comes out of managements mouth.
I'll concede somewhat that it isn't ALL the UAW's fault in the Big Three's downfall...but don't you find it rather coincidental that it's ONLY the UAW-organized end-unit manufacturers in this country that are on the ropes? And don't you find it somewhat curious as well that, in those plants/areas where the UAW does NOT dominate - namely overseas - the Big Three are still doing rather well?
Yup, back to the "everything that is wrong with business today is the fault of the big bad, corrupt thugs that are union members" mentality that you seem infested with. Your lack of knowledge in this matter is overwhelming.
The reason they cant sell the popular cars that do so well overseas here in the USA are gooberment restrictions on first trade, then safety issues. Like front bumpers. There are several car makers that would love to sell their cars here, but they cant pass the safety testing because they dont have a front bumper. Last fall, I cant tell you how many fords I saw in Germany and Bavaria, all cars that would sell like hotcakes over here, but because if Gooberment meddling, never going to happen. So please, dont turn a blind eye to the truth when you post with your venomous hate for the union.
Believe me, UPS *ALWAYS* took FDX seriously....even forty years ago. THAT'S never been the problem; an intransigent union was (and is)
That said, I'm not sure what UPS *COULD* have done about FDX, other than what it has already done (although I'll admit it could have reacted faster when FDX began raiding UPS management personnel, a lesson the company seemed to have to learn again when RPS hit the scene). Boot the union? What?
UPS never took FDX or RPS seriously. And when FDX bought RPS, UPS pee'd their pants in glee as they figured that FDX had made a serious blunder.
Hadnt worked out that way, has it?
They raided UPS management? What about the drivers and other UPSers with hundreds of years of experience at their jobs. Leaving the union jobs they had to go work for a non union company......how can that all be the unions fault?
It wasnt.
Try a hostile work environment that was UPS at that time. Constant crap, all the time without letup. A refusal by UPS to understand that those that perform well should be rewarded well. That includes the sales forces. But instead, we lose a lot of motivated talent to the other companies, including Coke and FDX.
"What is in the contract is the minimum. UPS can pay more than that."
Actually, I don't believe it can.....at least not unilaterally. If it did, I think it would be in hot water with the NLRB for bypass bargaining (or whatever the term is that I'm racking my brain for, but can't remember).
Really? Let me see. Did the union negotiate with UPS to allow them to give out bonuses to part timers that stayed more than 60 days? Didnt think so. And this bonus was only in some centers, not state, region or national.
Now you may call it "negotiating"...as when rioters holding a gun to a local grocery store owner's head may call it "negotiating". And you have a right to call it what you will. However, employers - much like that grocery store owner I just mentioned - might be inclined to think of it as something else...and act accordingly. In the shopkeepers case, it's likely he'll move out of the neighborhood (as has actually occurred in too many cases)...while the employer will move his jobs elsewhere, or simply go out of business.
Nah, we call negotiating the fine art of a bunch of long winded liars and thieves that produce a contract that is full of words that dont mean anything, (you did not happen to sit on the panel putting the contract together did you?) Or at least they claim it doesnt mean what it says.
Funny you claim only the union side holds the gun to the store owners head.
I see it happening all the time here where management threatens the hourly about claiming rights agreed to under the contract.
Take 9.5's.
I want to get home and spend some time with my family. You insist that I need to work 10, 11 or more hours every day. Not unusual to have 55 hours on the week. So I try to ask for your consideration, but that goes nowhere. Then I threaten to file to claim my rights that
YOU agreed to in the contract.
But no, you choose to threaten me with harassment rides, production audits just for starters. Who is putting the gun to who's head? You agreed to it, so give the driver the consideration that you promised.
But oh wait, what you promised.....you werent serious about that, and the contract really does not mean what it said........
As for "drinking too much cool-aid" (always wonder where that bit of wisdom hails from...i.e. - "cool-Aid"? What's that really associated with?), again, I can't help but note that more than HALF of UPS's employees are NOT Teamsters. Nor can I help but note that, while many UPS employees ARE Teamsters, the non-Teamster company FedEx is consistently voted by employees as being the better company to work for. Makes one wonder why, doesn't it?
You know, your right. The fact that UPS has a union and FDX does not is proof positive that the unions make life hell for everyone, and it hated by them.
I mean there is not way in hell it could be the management style we have at UPS that would have made so many UPSers leave to go to FDX where they can look forward to doing the same job for less money, but loving it more?????
Yep, Consolidated's owners knew that it couldn't be as profitable as a non-union company, and thus THEY ventured-out into a non-Teamsters one. And, wonder of wonders...IT is able to make a profit!
Huh? I see this type of blunder by people that just love to hear themselves talk.
Are all Teamsters "thugs"? Of course not. But far too high a proportion are. And there's no doubt that's the reputation they - and many unions in general - have in the minds of the public at large.
Yup. You posted it, so it has to be true. Care to cite your sources for that little comment?
(1) Your comment of "I have first hand knowledge of at least 23%." is not quite what I'd call universally applicable documentation, but....
(2) ....even it was, "at least 23%" is not quite the same as your prior claim of "Sometimes with rates as high as 25% or more" now, is it?
Let me clarify this to where even you can understand it.
I have first hand knowledge by seeing the actual documents of it being 23%. I have second and third hand knowledge of it being higher, but have not seen the actual documents, only word of mouth of the people that didnt think to check the paperwork. People that would have no reason to lie.
Lastly
P.S. - Ever thought that perhaps you ought to show a little more respect for those who WRITE your paycheck? I.e. - those who pay your wages with THEIR money? Sorry, guy...but any time you think you're being taken advantage of in terms of making the "money that is used to pay [my] paycheck", then feel free to hit the road. By that I mean that I sure as Hell am not going to demand that you hang around to "make the money" for my alleged [a significant definition] "paycheck". And, after all, I'm sure you can find a comparable job in a New York minute. Or, better yet, start your OWN company which pays the wages comparable to what you're making. Not a problem....right?
Your gross arrogance shines for all to see.
Respect is something that is earned. The tone in your posts shows absolutely no respect for those employees that go out every day to earn the money that you then claim as your own money that you use then to pay us? Of course only you can be the producer of the wealth that UPS brings in to pay those unworthy thugs that stand around doing nothing.
And you wonder why you dont get respect? And you wonder why FDX is a better work environment?
You sir dont have to look very far to get the answer. Just look in the mirror.
I say we get rid of about 30% of management at UPS. You know, the ones that keep telling everyone how important they are to the welfare of this company, and that they and they alone have the answers to make this company strong enough to survive. The ones that hate all things union and try to keep the company and the union at each others throats(and as a result are the reason UPS employees hate working for UPS)
Bet if GM had done that years ago, they would not have been in this sad shape either.
That being said, the rank and file that make up the teamsters the typical guy next door. Not some Mob thug that you try and make us out to be.
But for sure, the national and some of the local heads have lost their way as to the purpose of why the Teamsters were created in the first place.
d