Its all a dream. You got nothing

Discussion in 'FedEx Discussions' started by Exec32, Jun 12, 2016.

  1. Exec32

    Exec32 Member

    Second post, many more to come....
    I've owned my own business before coming to this scam and have witnessed first hand how this relationship works amongst terminals and contractors. The problem is larger contractors are damaging their own business and hurting the smaller contractor by their own actions. You run supplementals at a loss and claim you are just growing your company. You go out and buy additional trucks and hire more drivers to do work that should be contracted , and claim you are doing it because no one else will.
    That's a lie, you actually under pay your drivers ( depress wages), thin out your routes ( to handle any surprises and which create lazy work ethic and poor morale). You are part of the problem. Demand what your company is worth, make fedex pay for it.
    I am a contractor that believes in efficiency, and being productive. Return that to your driver, give em a decent wage, paid holidays and at least 2 weeks off a year. I could do more for my driver's if you #itch contractors stop undercutting yourself and us.
    This can apply to ISP and IC states. UNDERCUTTING CONTRACTORS is EVERYWHERE, FEDEX IS THE ONLY ONE THAT WINS
     
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  2. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    Good post. I know FedEx is crooked and that Ground is a huge scam, but it also has plenty of supporters here. Keep on telling the truth, and welcome.
     
  3. Gone fishin

    Gone fishin Member

    If I were to venture into a business,I would certainly check out every angle maybe for a few months. Talk to everyone possible a few times. Learn as much as I could before I bought into it.
    It's really not that hard to figure out. If what you learn is not what you want. Stay away. !!
     
  4. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    Spot on X32. I was a Day 1 single work area contractor for 23 years going back to the days of RPS and life with Roadway was not easy but it was tolerable. Early on I spotted the transition to ISP and got out ahead of my state going to it. Here are facts that are very hard to dispute.
    1. The business model does NOT exists for the purpose of creating equity for contractors. It exists for the sole purpose of acquiring trucking and labor
    at the lowest possible cost for the sole purpose of maximizing company returns.

    2. By it's own admission not one single term or condition set forth in it's unilaterally drafted and implemented contract is considered binding upon itself,

    meaning it can amend and or reinterpret those terms any time any place for any reason. This in turn renders your proprietary rights meaningless.
    Also you invest money in the venture but that investment has no representation no voice when it comes to deciding whatever direction that company
    decides to go in.

    3. The only real power contractors had at one time was their sheer numbers and given that single route contractors had a limited amount of money
    invested it was fairly easy to walk away. That power is gone now leaving fewer contractors many heavily leveraged leaving them with fewer options and
    more subjugated to the absolute will and power of that company. And as many are beginning to experience more downward pressure on settlements.

    4. Your success is entirely dependent on your ability to procure drivers who are physically able and psychologically willing to deliver you top of the scale
    performance for bottom of the scale money and willing to do it on a continuous daily basis for an extended period of time. The ease of that task varies
    widely nationwide

    5. Supplementals are not a pathways to growth. They are simply non contracted routes. And X loves them . Why? What would be the incentive for the
    company to take a non contracted route and convert it into a contracted route when the desired result is already being realized for $ 30,000 a year
    less?

    6..Going forward the only thing that is known for certain is that X will continue to do whatever is solely in it's best interest. Not yours. Your best hope is that
    you will somehow find a way to adapt and the disparity between the value you they demand and the value they offer in return is certain to grow even
    wider.

    7.. When it comes to command and control you are an employee. When it comes to the divestiture or risk, liability and variable costs you are a contractor.
    They have always to this point had it both ways and for the foreseeable future will continue to do so.
     
  5. It will be fine

    It will be fine Well-Known Member

    The only point I'd counter is under ISP there is no longer a "contracted route" vs. a supplemental. There is just your entire area and how you choose to handle it is up to you. You can send out 10 trucks doing 70 stops or 7 trucks doing 100. The revenue will be the same.
     
  6. Code 82 Approved

    Code 82 Approved Titanium Plus+ Level Member

    Incorrect. Having nearly 99.9% service everyday and having all of your drivers happy each day is much better for the bottom line than anything like the scenario I left. It was 10% call in, 10% new hire no-show after a few days, and 10 % grounded trucks due to mechanical mayhem.
     
  7. It will be fine

    It will be fine Well-Known Member

    That doesn't change the revenue generated. OP is complaining about the lack of compensation when running supplemental routes. Fedex withholds numerous bonuses and other payments when a route doesn't have its own contract in the IC model. In ISP there's no such thing. It's all stops and pieces. Having productive drivers is more profitable than happy ones. I'm sure all my guys would be happier if I sent them out with 50 stops a day, but that doesn't pay the bills.
     
  8. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    I think the confusion surrounds the old IC model with the new ISP model that is being introduced in the states where it hasn't already existed for several years. No doubt however that the money they first offer is based of their estimate of what they think it should cost you to deliver their boxes and moving them off of it is as you admit quite difficult. Is it nor therefore a poorly disguised production quota? In their estimation it should require x number of trucks, driving x number of miles doing x number of stops and handling x number of boxes. If that is the case I don't see how you can call it anything other than a production quota.
     
  9. Bounty

    Bounty Active Member

    We just went ISP here in ny, I still talk to the contractors and their employees and have not met one that is happy with their situation. Every employee is looking to leave and every contractor feels trapped( can't sell for what they paid and are in debt up to their eyes). They are all hoping that once they pay off their debt they have accumulated after purchasing routes to get to scale everything will be ok, but as anyone that has been involved with X knows another curve ball is coming. Whether it's you must own ground and home routes or something else. You have no control over "your business" and never will!!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  10. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    Hearing the same thing in my neck of the woods, Bounty. Given X's ceaseless demand for more and more precision and production I think the days of a cheap labor high turn over work place will reach a conclusion. In the not too distant future a healthy, productive, experienced, drug free individual who lives a socially responsible life will be able to walk into a terminal introduce himself to the contractors operating there but where as in the past asks "how much are offering?' this time he says " this is how much I want", leaving contractors to decide if they are willing to cut their operating margin to get the best person or take a chance on an indifferent, less productive person of suspect character and a track record of poor life decisions. Sometimes it work out for the better but an equal number of times it turns into a nightmare and with so much more from an economic perspective riding on that decision can he afford to take the chance?
     
  11. It will be fine

    It will be fine Well-Known Member

    @Bounty are they negotiating in NY yet? All other changes and negotiations are on hold until NY finishes. Apparently the engineers didn't know this was coming so they had to shut down everything else.
     
  12. Bounty

    Bounty Active Member

    Last time I spoke to a contractor was about two weeks ago and he told me he was in the middle of his negotiations.
     
  13. Exec32

    Exec32 Member

    The key to all this seems to be that we all must be willing to walk away if you don't get what you think is reasonable. The problem is some are over leveraged and may seem like that is not an option.
    Fedex rely's on that outcome to establish these depressed levels of compensation. The only counter is to call their bluff. What I mean is this.... ISP's in essence already should have some leverage by its share of responsibility(area). USE that leverage. I know the devils will attempt to entice other contractors to fill the void, however the available (competent)contractor pool at each terminal is shrinking, you all should come to an understanding that participating in fedex scheme to retaliate against a fellow contractor is not acceptable.
    When are we going to actually start supporting each other for a better outcome?
    It is not easy to come up with 6,7,8 trucks or more and drivers to cover an area and maintain service. In the end I have informed my drivers that If I cancel my contract I will provide them severance for 2 weeks paid, if they do not agree to work with another contractor taking my area over. Just watching the terminal suffer, and hopefully give my drivers an opportunity to find employment elsewhere, is worth it. The best solution is to not help FEDEX screw your fellow contractors..
    Here is one better, come up with your own non disclosure among-st contractors, meet with each other and discuss tactics to use to get your desired outcome,, wait that's what FEDEX does!!!!
     
  14. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    Not allowed to have an attorney present during negotiations . Can't discuss rates and settlements with other contractors. Make X identify the specific rule of law that permits them to make such outrageous demands. Yes, I know those confidentiality agreements you must sign in order to contract with them. Taking work areas nobody wants then dump them on to the guy who is the nearest to it under terms that are all theirs.The only true ally multi routes had were the little single route guys because they were harder to control. The single routes are now all gone and the multi"s that remain have to work under terms the single route guys would have told X to go pound salt a long time earlier. The multi's can now expect to be sandwiched between X's demand for productivity and precision from individual drivers that matches what UPS guys get for a compensation package that a growing number of qualified drivers will not accept because the spotlight will soon shine much brighter on the parity in terms of work demands and the disparity in pay and benefits.
     
  15. Exec32

    Exec32 Member

    Just doesn't seem sustainable. The contractor model could work if they let the free market operate. The constraints that exist are obviously illegal.
     
  16. dmac1

    dmac1 Active Member

    It works better for fedex to have the ISP system because those guys have even more to lose than the single route operators. If fedex refuses to increase settlement, and the contractor walks, he is stuck with vehicle costs. Fedex can call in temps, or get other contractors to cover. The ISP has zero benefits to the owner, other than the ability to have more routes, which can easily be just as negative as positive.

    One question- Is fedex still limiting the % of ownership someone has in a terminal? If so, that alone limits the ability to both buy and sell routes, and may be the next issue that helps even ISPs be legally found to be employees.
     
  17. Bounty

    Bounty Active Member

    I agree, with what your saying, but it's not reality these contractors are in so deep they must obey their master. It was when we were single route owners , we had a chance to control it by not running supplements but the terminal was full of lizards that would agree to take area and run it for free in hopes of getting it turned into a route. Now they got what they wanted. Careful what you ask for you just might get it!!
     
  18. Exec32

    Exec32 Member

    Never thought of it from that prospective. It's obvious FedEx would not want to rely to heavily on on contractor, however if this is a model they want to sustain then these are the scenarios they must accept. Or not, ,,,,if there is no convincing consequence then I guess they will continue..PUNITIVE DAMAGES TO THE AMOUNT IT WOULD DETER ANY FURTHER CORUPTION.. (I thought all caps would be nice.)
     
  19. Exec32

    Exec32 Member

    One more thing, I've only been doing this for 5 years, I've got 4 routes no supplementals all ground. My trucks are all paid for with a spare. I am not going to seriously consider investing real money in this lop sided relationship, they call my business. It's all there's I'm not mistaken, I really feel sorry for the single guys that just wanted to do there route professionally and go home, I despise the contractors that pretend to whine and be your buddy, then spend 2 hours every morning talking with the terminal manager about what they heard. If you read this you know who you are. I paid 40k in all with 3 trucks back then, made my money back and some, and I kinda like what I do.
    We need to at some point demand some respect. I do enjoy a fight, and challenge but looking at some of these posts I realize that I will be on my own in my state.
     
  20. dmac1

    dmac1 Active Member

    Fedex has and will settled, after years of stalling all the lawsuits they would lose in court already. They have avoided legal decisions by making these settlements and they have avoided punitive damages for breaking the laws. And by the time that these lawsuits get to court, the statute of limitations has run out for states to collect since they aren't part of the lawsuit. For example, the multi-state lawsuit was filed in 2006. It was 2015 before the courts decided in CA and OR that the 'contractors' were in reality employees as a matter of law. But the states weren't parties to these lawsuits. Fedex drug it out long enough to screw the taxpayers.

    While the 'contractors' got a piece of what they lost by being missclassified without any punitive damages, the states, counties, cities, and IRS got nothing for all those years fedex and drivers avoided taxes. In some areas, I know that misclassification and failure to pay things like unemployment and worker's comp can lead to double or even triple the amount fedex should have paid. That is simply pure unadulterated theft from all the other taxpayers in the country.

    Fedex has created a model to avoid taxes legally. But it isn't the contractor or ISP model. It is to intentionally missclassify, and then stall as long as possible until the taxing authorities can no longer collect what they would have owed. Even if fedex pays contractors every cent that being missclassified cost the contractor, fedex has still avoided taxes that their competitors are obliged to pay. Fedex has used the court system of the USA to legally avoid taxes that they should owe. The statute of limitations is way too short for criminal activities like this one that fedex set up to avoid paying their fair share.