Let's Get the New Year Started Right "On Topic" Safety is the greatest most extreme issue.

[10 point]

I get all of that, as I have to assume does the poster you quoted.
Where I am insulted is the hypocrisy of the rhetoric spewed on the shop floor by frontline management.
What a bunch of crap.

Oblivious (or not) to the real world and deficiencies of our jobs in respect to safety?

When they're not professional or proactive enough to address eminent safety issues prior to them manifesting it shows a purposeful mindset to evade and discount our safety recommendations which voids a heartfelt initiative to make positive changes for the workers.

 

[Rainman]

I get all of that, as I have to assume does the poster you quoted.
Where I am insulted is the hypocrisy of the rhetoric spewed on the shop floor by frontline management.
What a bunch of crap.

I think ( in my center at least) that front line management really does care about our safety and well being but is handcuffed by policies from those above them on the food chain, so that their ability to respond in a concrete manner to problems is limited.
I don't think that this would be any different in any other company, we just expect more because UPS is such a good company when compared to most other companies in the world. It isn't the BOG, but when compared to most businesses, this really is a good company.
Some of management are hypocrites, I've worked for a bunch of them over the years, but I've also worked for some top notched management also.
It is what it is, so we make the best of the situation and encourage others to also. Ignore the jerks and do what's right.

 

[OPTION3]

it all comes down to money. people will only do something to save money or to spend as little as possible.

it comes down to money. not ethics. not responsibility. no morals. no integrity.

MONEY MONEY MONEY

Which is why ALL the crap Ups spouts about safety is BUNK!

 

[Catatonic]

it all comes down to money. people will only do something to save money or to spend as little as possible.

it comes down to money. not ethics. not responsibility. no morals. no integrity.

MONEY MONEY MONEY

Which is why ALL the crap Ups spouts about safety is BUNK!

If an employee has an accident, it costs UPS MONEY.
I think we are all in agreement.

 

[OPTION3]

I get all of that, as I have to assume does the poster you quoted.
Where I am insulted is the hypocrisy of the rhetoric spewed on the shop floor by frontline management.
What a bunch of crap.

Yes....100% yes!

 

[10 point]

IMO, from what I've seen over the years, one of the greatest safety mistakes the company makes is qualifying new drivers and after the first six months (or less) of them running routes they are presumed to be adhering to the methods they were taught in school and on road with supervision.

The short cuts start coming in to play during the stress of learning new areas and the main objective goes from "safety first" to "no missed pieces" and that can be a recipe for disaster.

Maybe the on road supes have too much on their plates, I don't know.

If you want to grow a tree to be straight while winds are continuously present you have to give it continuous restraint and monitor it's growth until it's mature enough to handle the stress.

Are there veteran employees with bad habits? Sure. But starting out of the gate and developing bad habits without ample supervision to correct them is a plan to fail.

Basically, if you want your children to behave correctly you start teaching them and making them obey the rules when they're young... not when they're teens.

Just my opinion.

 

[Bubblehead]

I think ( in my center at least) that front line management really does care about our safety and well being but is handcuffed by policies from those above them on the food chain, so that their ability to respond in a concrete manner to problems is limited.
I don't think that this would be any different in any other company, we just expect more because UPS is such a good company when compared to most other companies in the world. It isn't the BOG, but when compared to most businesses, this really is a good company.
Some of management are hypocrites, I've worked for a bunch of them over the years, but I've also worked for some top notched management also.
It is what it is, so we make the best of the situation and encourage others to also. Ignore the jerks and do what's right.

When they prioritize the simple things, like washing package car windows over safety committee members giving out bananas, I will consider what you're saying.
The biggest problem is as you suggest, frontline managers aren't afforded the avenues necessary to "manage".
They would be more aptly labeled "facilitators".

 

[10 point]

The folks who plan the wellness banana blitz don't have to drive PCs and they don't care if our windows and mirrors are clean. It's all about "only X amount of car wash hours" available.

The grievance resolution is: We're not forcing you to take a truck out of the building with poor glass vision.
They're just increasing our opportunity to answer for premium service failures and the weaker spined drivers will be tempted to speed to make service after doing the car wash job in the AM.

This whole mindset is out of control.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

BigUnionGuy,

OK.

How do you think you can help?

Sincerely,
I

Let's start with a few items in this thread.


I read the 5 year old post, about the seats in package cars.

Was that a general concern or something you are exposed too as a driver ?


The issue of building heat, would need to be addressed through the grievance procedure

Or, through any applicable state law. Then, OSHA.


The disparity between these 2 issues.... leaves me wondering if you are a driver

or work inside a building. Which one directly affects you ?


Your "stated" attempt at a remedy, was to call the Help Line.

That's really not applicable for contractual issues. That's what the grievance procedure is for.


Your lack of confidence in the Union Steward to resolve these type of concerns, is misplaced.

Keep him in the loop.... but, you can go directly to your Local to file grievances.


Rectifying situations like this, is akin to fishing.


Once you open that can of worms.... you have to be willing to put it on the hook.



-Bug-

 

[annie345]

I hope everyone will remember this is not a ups safety committee.. It is a joint ups/IBT safety committee.. At our center we don't have the I don't care about safety issues.. If something needs to be fixed, we fix it.. If methods need to be changed to ensure safety, we get it done. Realistically the company spends so much money on safety because if just one person is injured it costs thousands of dollars.. And the company is liable so yes it is to minimize cost and liability for the company.. I call that a good investment. But.. Working safely is a personal choice.. Filing a grievance for safety concerns is a contractual right. Step up and be apart of the process.. Make changes.

 

[10 point]

I hope everyone will remember this is not a ups safety committee.. It is a joint ups/IBT safety committee.. At our center we don't have the I don't care about safety issues.. If something needs to be fixed, we fix it.. If methods need to be changed to ensure safety, we get it done. Realistically the company spends so much money on safety because if just one person is injured it costs thousands of dollars.. And the company is liable so yes it is to minimize cost and liability for the company.. I call that a good investment. But.. Working safely is a personal choice.. Filing a grievance for safety concerns is a contractual right. Step up and be apart of the process.. Make changes.

And,

• Beware of electing Trojan Horses to cochair positions. It will dilute any progress to fix/eliminate safety problems.

 

[olroadbeech]

if you think back 5 years or longer we had many more managers and I hate to admit it but things were more manageable for them.

at our hub we have most of our managers doing 2 or 3 extra jobs since all the cuts. so all they have is their numbers and reacting to them. they don't have time to do anything els with all the paper they have to push.

I suggested years ago that new feeder drivers get a 90 day ridealong and then a 180 day ridealong to correct methods and foresee potential problems. the answer was we don't have the manpower and I agree.

this new feeder mentor program which I am a part of going on ridealongs and helping with training is a step in the right direction.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

When they prioritize the simple things, like washing package car windows over safety committee members giving out bananas, I will consider what you're saying.

Beware of electing Trojan Horses to cochair positions. It will dilute any progress to fix/eliminate safety problems.

-Bug-

 

[Bubblehead]

I hope everyone will remember this is not a ups safety committee.. It is a joint ups/IBT safety committee.. At our center we don't have the I don't care about safety issues.. If something needs to be fixed, we fix it.. If methods need to be changed to ensure safety, we get it done. Realistically the company spends so much money on safety because if just one person is injured it costs thousands of dollars.. And the company is liable so yes it is to minimize cost and liability for the company.. I call that a good investment. But.. Working safely is a personal choice.. Filing a grievance for safety concerns is a contractual right. Step up and be apart of the process.. Make changes.

The safety committee in my building was hand picked by management and has spun off 2 new on-car supes in the last 3 years.
They use safety as a guise to code out time for operational tasks, often "off the book" falsifications.
These committee members perform many tasks I feel are managerial duties, while there is rarely any mangers in the building past 5pm.
The co-chair in my center hasn't run his bid route in years and not one grievance has been filed from any so called safety committee member.
If I have my way, and a movement is afoot, there will be no more safety committee in my building in the very near future.

I might need some help BUG?, as my local officials are "go along to get along" with regards to the company.

 

[Inthegame]

I hope everyone will remember this is not a ups safety committee.. It is a joint ups/IBT safety committee.. At our center we don't have the I don't care about safety issues.. If something needs to be fixed, we fix it.. If methods need to be changed to ensure safety, we get it done. Realistically the company spends so much money on safety because if just one person is injured it costs thousands of dollars.. And the company is liable so yes it is to minimize cost and liability for the company.. I call that a good investment. But.. Working safely is a personal choice.. Filing a grievance for safety concerns is a contractual right. Step up and be apart of the process.. Make changes.

Good call Annie. National Master Art 18 has over 20 sections containing negotiated safety improvements, all of them the result of involved members stepping up.

 

[Mugarolla]

To My Fellow UPS Workers,

The first sentence of the preliminary introduction to Article 18 in the National Master United Parcel Service Agreement exlpains that UPS and the IBT are in agreement that the safety of the employees and the general public is of the utmost importance.

In what ways do you see your Union Officials and Local Management Team living out this statement?

Integrity would think that if it was agreed between a company and a union that the safety of the employees and the general public was an issue of most extreme or of greatest importance then there would be clear evidence of this in the local workplace.

What evidence do you see of this agreement between UPS and the IBT?

How do you think this can become more of reality in the workplace?

The purpose of this discussion thread is not to gripe or complain about conditions at UPS, management, the Union or for that matter anything at all about UPS. The sole purpose of this discussion thread is to discuss the following work-related issue with other employees as an initial step in engaging in some concerted activity to bring this issue up to the company as a group.

It is my hope that by addressing this issue in concert we not only be working for our own mutual aid, protection and improved working conditions, but we will be working for the benefit of any and all coworkers that may have been adversely affected by this issue.

Sincerely,
I

Let me clear up why the safety committees were implemented. UPS was OSHA'S biggest customer. It got so bad that OSHA was going to start shutting centers down.

UPS came into an agreement with OSHA that they would implement safety committees, get employees involved and correct all the safety issues.

They agreed to be monitored by an outside agency, Keter, which UPS pays for. Keter reports to OSHA. As long as Keter is happy, OSHA is happy.

The only reason safety committees, and all this DOK crap, exist is to keep OSHA off their backs.

UPS's number one goal is to pass the Keter audits so OSHA will stay away.

There are some sups that do care about our safety, but as a company, they don't care. Keep Keter happy. That's all they care about.

 

[10 point]

Let me clear up why the safety committees were implemented. UPS was OSHA'S biggest customer. It got so bad that OSHA was going to start shutting centers down.

UPS came into an agreement with OSHA that they would implement safety committees, get employees involved and correct all the safety issues.

They agreed to be monitored by an outside agency, Keter, which UPS pays for. Keter reports to OSHA. As long as Keter is happy, OSHA is happy.

The only reason safety committees, and all this DOK crap, exist is to keep OSHA off their backs.

UPS's number one goal is to pass the Keter audits so OSHA will stay away.

There are some sups that do care about our safety, but as a company, they don't care. Keep Keter happy. That's all they care about.

I was told the same thing.

The employee's safety and health is a huge liability to a company this size and one poor decision on either side that leads to an injury can be extremely costly for both.

Safety committees should be proactively run by senior employees who have the fortitude to make changes happen in a timely manner.

 

[Mugarolla]

I was told the same thing.

The employee's safety and health is a huge liability to a company this size and one poor decision on either side that leads to an injury can be extremely costly for both.

Safety committees should be proactively run by senior employees who have the fortitude to make changes happen in a timely manner.

Last Stat I saw was that UPS pays around $1 million per day due to workers comp.

Yes, they would like to pay less, but that is not the reason for the safety committees. It is strictly to keep OSHA away. The fines were costing more than what they pay in comp.

 

[upsbeernut]

I was told the same thing.

The employee's safety and health is a huge liability to a company this size and one poor decision on either side that leads to an injury can be extremely costly for both.

Safety committees should be proactively run by senior employees who have the fortitude to make changes happen in a timely manner.

As a senior driver I would love to get involved in the safety meetings, but common sense changes that are suggested are never implemented besides I'm more interested in making sure my overloaded route is suitable without any surprises. I also don't appreciate the safety question monitor hovering around our center every night to try and get us to recite way too much information that could be condensed. When I get in at 7:30 , all I want to do is take my bleary eyed self home. I'll answer questions in the morning but not after a day of driving stress.

 

[10 point]

As a senior driver I would love to get involved in the safety meetings, but common sense changes that are suggested are never implemented besides I'm more interested in making sure my overloaded route is suitable without any surprises. I also don't appreciate the safety question monitor hovering around our center every night to try and get us to recite way too much information that could be condensed. When I get in at 7:30 , all I want to do is take my bleary eyed self home. I'll answer questions in the morning but not after a day of driving stress.

We don't have those hourly employees questioning us because that's a management role.

If safety committee members have a 9.5 problem they get on the 9.5 list.

It's much better to have vets on the committee than to have newbies for multiple reasons.

My personal feeling is to delete the committee if it isn't fruitful. It often creates tension between hourlies.