Discussion in 'UPS Partners' started by Long suffering sup, Sep 13, 2007.

  1. Any news on this years mip yet?
  2. Dirty Savage

    Dirty Savage Paranoid Android

    What the hell is "mip"?
  3. ups stock awardd
  4. over9five

    over9five Senior Member Staff Member

    No MIP for a few years. We will need the money to replace the Teamsters when we don't renew the contract.
  5. helenofcalifornia

    helenofcalifornia Well-Known Member

    Again, what's a "mip?"
  6. over9five

    over9five Senior Member Staff Member

    Management Incentive Plan

    Once a good thing for all in management, it has been corrupted by the elite.
  7. browned_out

    browned_out Member

    :lol: This is there end of the year bonus program, used to be a good thing until recently. Now they are getting the shaft like us drivers with PAS, you know how your times have gone down with PAS, well there bonus has been revamped and not to there benefit. Seems like the money is now going to the very upper crust of UPS management and these guys (lower management) are taking the hit.
  8. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    Supes could complain to their union......
  9. BigBrownSanta

    BigBrownSanta New Member

    So now you can understand why no one wants to fix problems anymore.
  10. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden New Member

    The real corruption is the LTIP (Long-term Incentive Plan) for the Grade 20+ levels. 50 - 200% of annual salary over a vesting period.

    The devolution of MIP has been happening for years, even before going public. From the dilution of the factor to the idiotic 5-year vesting nonsense of 1/2 of the award.

    And to communicate the change in MIP to 1/2 Cash and 1/2 stock that vests evenly over 5 years, one of the "benefits" given in the offical presenttation was that the first year they did this, it would lower your taxable income--hence, lowering your overall tax burden. Brilliant! Then by that logic, I guess they should've just paid us all zero to REALLY minimize our taxable income.

    The problem isn't that the program (in whatever format) is necessarlly "unfair", I think the problem is that senior management likes to treat its lower level management like idiots by doing something that is detrimental (lowering their overall compensation), and then looking them straight in the eye and saying what a great thing it is.

    Then on top of all that, they give all of themselves the LTIP program and give themself a bottom end 50% target of annual pay bonus over the vesting period. Brilliant-- what a way to reduce cost.

    Enough ranting for one day....
  11. Johney

    Johney Raise your hand if you think Upstate is a D-Bag

    If they don't like it they can just qiut:lol:
  12. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden New Member

    Absolutely. I'm not sure which area/district you work, but where I am, there's been a steady drain of "talented" management people.

    One's career isn't like going to a movie or dinner--where you can just immediately get up and leave if you don't like it.

    I think the informed person would bide his/her time, continue his/her mediocrely challenging work while seeking the right opportunity elsewhere.

    A recent Harvard Business Review article discusses the importance of recruiting young talent and retaining that talent. I've seen many instances where staff managers are willing to take the less talented individual because we can pay him/her less. That type of mentality will leave a company full of MIP recipients who are there not generating the return to shareowners that should be generated, despite expending fewer $$ in overall compensation.

    LTIP and MIP cannot last forever. I liken it to Social Security. Once the generation of decision makers take their $$ they've all given themselves and then parachute out, it'll leave whoever is left holding the big flaming bag.

    And that's why as you so astutely pointed out, many people don't like it...and they are or will leave.
  13. BSUUPS

    BSUUPS New Member

    1.45 already leaked
  14. pretzel_man

    pretzel_man Well-Known Member

    Sorry, but as a long time UPSer and management person, I won't get into the "woe is me" attitude.

    The real issue here is not the LTIP or MIP changes, it is the lack of stock growth. When I was younger, 1.5 or 2.0 for an MIP factor was great. We all knew that the actual MIP number was not as important as the stock growth. We knew the importance of compounding.

    These realities are still true today...

    So the management committee ties management compensation to things that corrolate to stock growth. The intent is to have the management team work on those items that promote growth in the stock.

    Stock Options and LTIP do the same. Reward the higher level management for growth indices and actual stock growth. With the lack of growth, these programs are worth much less than the "targets" that are quoted.

    Casey's dream was that his management team would be compensated for things that grew the business. He wanted us to think and act like owners and managers, not like employees.

    "Woe is me" isn't the way an owner would act.


    P.S. I don't expect anyone to agree with this, but its how I feel.
  15. ...you bust your b*lls all year for 1.45 ?..I think it is time to check out a different industry.
    I have been with UPS 18 years and started off in clerical. I never thought about leaving until last year. It looks like there are plenty of good non pkg industry jobs out there for a potential x UPSer.I have learned a lot of good things at UPS, which could benefit other companies...not transport related. It is a shame, but I do not feel the past 18 years have been wasted. During that time I have worked for and with a lot of excellent people. With a young family to provide for - there are better jobs and indeed better paid jobs ( with less hours )...I believe it is time to go. better to work to live, than to live to work. Working 60 plus hours per week - for a not too excellent salary & then get a lowly 1.45 in december ?...mind you...if I was at division manager or above level, I would be quite happy to stay with UPS...then the salary would be equal to the job/input.....
  16. Load Stand

    Load Stand Guest

    Is it the front line management's fault we are struggling to grow? No - it's the fault of the company leadership! Why should their compensation be increased (LTIP) and the management on the front get less (again)? Something downright wrong about that! Casey's principles are being ignored by upper management, while they go around the country talking how great his ideas were.

    How much can the middle manager/front line sup really impact growth? Growth is being held back because our upper management is out of touch with reality. Reduce upper management and their compensation rate. Support the front lines better by not reducing front line management compensation any further (there has been numerous concessions in the last 10 years from this group) and increase the starting wage for PT package handlers. Teamsters must help and concede a little now (as mid management has done) or we will cede market share and dues paying members.

    There is not anything left to squeeze in terms of productivity from the front. The front has hit the wall. PAS has resulted in more problems than anyone is publicly willing to say. We have On Car Sups running misloads all day while district/region leadership continues to dream up new programs that only add to all the stress and misdirection. The center of the future intent does not account for all of the contigencies that go on each day and the missorts that PAS has generated.

    Something gotta give. If not, forget about growth, it will be about surviving.
  17. Well put !....I would guess a division/district staff manager gets a 30% 'bonus' MIP or whatever they get.....that alone would pay for an additional f/t supervisor...that same bonus would pay for x drivers,sorters,data entry clerks...etc.etc.....oh would cover the cost of a BD account wxec... - who are the primary agents for getting new business ?.
    Maintain The Core - the core is not being maintained - we on the ground, on the road, in the warehouse, we are the core!.
  18. I agree with everything you've posted. The conditions you described, thats how it is at our hub as well. Maybe dudebro can tell us more about where they plan to go next as far as increasing productivity (I'm honestly curious, not being a smartass).

    I'll tell you, our staffing has never been worse since PAS started (which was supposed to be the exact opposite). I think its due to us expecting too much of them too soon because of it. I don't as I learned the old way (alpha charts) and no matter what anyone says PAS or not, it still takes time to get good at the job. I know they were much more patient just a few years ago when i was hired on, I wasn't expected to be up to speed until the end of November (I was hired on in the very beginning of October).

    The new hire I'm currently training has got the idea down, he's just concentrating on building the loads now. Is he lightning quick right now? not yet, but he's fast and doesn't misload. After he's on the job a month or so I bet he's one of the best we have because he works hard and seems to genuinely care. The drivers I've talked to said he's doing very well. So does that mean I should ride him and get that extra 5 to 10 pph NOW or let him get comfortable and get it on his own with experience? I know some on my shift would, I'm not going to. The guy does a great job, he listens to everything I tell him (tips/criticisms/praises) and makes adjustments, why run him out of here? He'll get "there" just in time for PEAK if he stays (which I'm going to try to help him do lol).
  19. Your plan sounds good - at least 'we' look after our people!
  20. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    How can you say PAS is a failure. Don't you read the rose colored articles in all the publications? PAS is the greatest corporate blunder since "New Coke". At least Coca Cola admitted their mistake.