misload policy?

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by zero, Nov 30, 2007.

  1. zero

    zero New Member

    Is there one? really. Im a steward and they been giving a guy a hard time about misloads and give him a warning letter. I just told him not to sign anything. Any advice? thanks
  2. Damok

    Damok Member

    I don't know much about the training stewards get and whether this would have been covered, but I would imagine the best place to ask would be your local or other stewards in your location.

    Having said that I'm sure the stewards that frequent this site will be able to assist more than I.
  3. trickpony1

    trickpony1 Well-Known Member

    I was a preloader once........many, many years ago.
    Once I figured out that I can't control what gets put on any of the three package cars that I load after I leave I quit signing the "misload cards".
    Splits, additions, or the driver who thinks a particular package doesn't go on his car can affect what is on a driver's package car.
    When the company wants to provide an armed guard to stop the errant "misload" then I'll sign the misload cards until then I can't be responsible for what happens when I'm not at work guarding my package cars.
  4. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    Good advice. Don't sign anything, period. Drivers move stops around, supervisors, other people. There is no good in signing the written warning letter. I have never had nor heard a steward recommending throwing yourself under the bus. Management needs to blame someone besides themselves when it comes time to be judged via #'s. In case they want to try to fire or lay off someone in the future, those written warning letters that are signed will be right there in the office.
  5. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    What does your contract say about this issue?
    Is it a covered topic? If it is, then it is your responsibility to know the rule book when you took on the mantle of being a steward.
    Not signing anything, is always the best, first defense.
    Learn the rules and then you will be able to be a defender of someone's rights.
  6. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    you folks generally do everything to avoid taking responsibility for your mistakes. thats the nature of the beast. Meanwhile a refused to sign on the document shows an un cooperative employee that refuses to admit his mistakes. good material for the panel. You outhouse lawyers advising them not to sign generally help us build a better case for discharge.
  7. happy harry

    happy harry Member

    There is no policy. The only policy is that an employee follow's the prescribed ups method's which include's reading the label's before they scan and load. Here is the deal, the burden falls upon management' to prove that the employee is a misload/missort/mistoggle problem. Anyone can have a bad day. As a steward when you are called in to represent an employee who is alleged to have a problem with misloads you need to make sure they have all the evidence and paperwork to justify this problem. There are a number of reason's misload's could occur on paper such as scanner's malfunction, other employee's use scanner's still logged in under different user names,bad label's, and return to sender are all common problem's that could cause a misload. You as a steward need to make sure pt supervisor's (salt) toss in a wrong package to the loader and see if they catch it. If they do catch it then that needs to be documented just as if he missed it. This could be used as your proof that the employee catches bad package's and it could be a fluke on paper.

    Believe it or not anytime a supervisor,shop steward and the employee meet (management) can give an employee a verbal warning,warning letter,suspension or 72 hour notice of discharge.Even if the steward disagree's.The only thing that can't happen is they can't fire you. Then it becomes the business agent's job to battle it out with the sort/division manager. The shop steward is present during inital meeting's to make sure no employee's right's are taken away from them.

    An employee or steward is not required to sign anything. I don't recommend signing anything anyway because this can be held against you in future disciplinary meeting's. Hope this was helpful.
  8. happy harry

    happy harry Member

    Normally i do find myself agreeing with tieguy. But i wouldn't advise signing anything. A refuse to sign can't be held against you. The reason you are not signing just notions that you disagree with the procedure or action used against you.
  9. longlunchguy

    longlunchguy Runnin on Empty

    Or it could be that the employee disagrees with the document. If a loader disagrees with the management accusation, why would he sign a paper admitting guilt? How many other loaders, part time sups, on road sups, and DRIVERS are in that car before it leaves the building? Preloaders have a tough enough job (I'm a driver) without rhe rest of us giving them more grief.:sick:
  10. steward377

    steward377 New Member

    Are you kidding me YOU guys do everything to shift all of your failures on hourly people.

    I think you just make things up I've been to out state pane and to JAC and have NEVER heard a refusal to sign something brought up. The Union side of the panel simply does not care what you refuse to sign.

    Do not ever sign something you disagree with.
    By the way tieguy you use the word we in refering to the "company" I know in Brown school they taught you that you are important and the decisions you make are important but I am sure outside of your little world no one knows who you are in the Big Brown.
    Outhouse supervisor.
  11. Damok

    Damok Member

    Now THAT'S a troll post if I ever saw one. I think the boards died down a little bit and the action has been lacking - someone's getting DT's :P
  12. PT Stewie

    PT Stewie "Big Fella"

    Did the sups "council " (ups's word) the person first about misorts . Did they talk to him in your presence about misorts ? If they didn't they cannot issue a warning letter. Did they talk to him with respect and concern or use rough tactics? Did they use proper progressive discipline? Make sure you keep written notes, who, when and where. Your job is to defend the person to make sure he is treated fairley and also to council him to try not to make mistakes. This may mean telling him to take his time ( slow down) and be more carful no matter what the sups say about more speed (a common tactic) I do not care what they say nothing in the contract says anything about packages per hour.
    PS If he doesn't want to sign he doesn't have to
  13. happy harry

    happy harry Member

    You most certainly can be disciplined for slowing down or speed. If a supervisor does an ojt on an employee and the employee demonstrates a certain piece per hour (pph) he needs to maintain that. Some supervisors or managers will bring that up during a formal discipline meeting and the employee could be disciplined for failure to maintain job standards. My recomendation for you would be to talk with the employee and try and council him on the methods of his job. If he follows the prescribed methods and follows the supervisor's instruction's to the tee, your employee will slow down on his own due to UPS methods.

  14. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Gee whiz I dun think you hurt my feelings with that one. Guess what My friend if I iz de outhouse supervisor den dat makes you one of deez brown things floatin around in de bowl.
  15. zero

    zero New Member

    One of the many sups we got come to me friday and said we had a talk with so and so about his misloads and we had to give him a warning letter but they move this boy around all the time to different trucks and hes not the only one with misloads. i asked him if he signed anything he said he was never asked to sign anything and yes they talked to him without my presence. The sup asked me if i was mad about talking to him without me there and i said yes of course.
  16. Steward773

    Steward773 Member

    I tell all my people not to sign any document unless they are threatened with discipline, then I tell them to sign but write "under protest" after their name. That way, if it comes up in the future it shows that the person didn't want to sign, but was forced to avoid discipline. And ALWAYS ask for a copy of anything that you sign.

    Also if they try and use that "signed" document against the person look at filing a grievance under artile 6 "extra contract agreements".

    They can eventually discharge an employee for misloads after progressive discipline. My advice would be to have a one-on-one with the loader and tell him/her to focus more on double or triple checking the label before loading the package. Sometimes you have to take a couple steps back if you know what I mean.

    Good Luck!:thumbup1:
  17. steward377

    steward377 New Member

    A very inteligent response just like I expected thanks for proving my point.
  18. PT Stewie

    PT Stewie "Big Fella"

    H---- that is what I was trying to say.Take your time to make sure you do the job right.But not everyone has the same ability to read, scan ,and load at the same rate.And lets not forget the itimatation factor its hard to work correctley sometimes with the Hitler Youth screaming at you.As long as your are using proper methods and doing your best i.e. (no misloads) why would management want to disipline you?For a few less packages an hour.
  19. PT Stewie

    PT Stewie "Big Fella"

    Call your local and get some Weingarten Cards and give them out . The employee in matters of displine has the right to representation.If he wasn't repremanded in your's or another stewards presence the warning letter is not worth the paper it is written on. Call your local and advise your BA of the situation. They will protest the letter.
  20. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    Wow you are quite incompetent. Not signing the warning letter indicates the employee feels as though he was not responsible for the misload or lack of performance on the job.

    In no way is this "avoiding responsibility for his actions or lack thereof", simply because chances are HE OR SHE NEVER MISLOADED TO BEGIN WITH. Why would any rational person sign a waiver taking responsibility for something that could not be proven, nor is likely their own fault?

    I can only begin to describe how many times NDAS, splits, individual stops, were moved behind my back after I left my shift when I was a part-timer in years back. Many times mistakes that WERE CLEARLY not my fault management wanted to pin on me. Did you think anyone would outright take the fall for something they didn't do? You bet management tried to cooerce me, threaten me, into signing it. You can also bet my steward said "don't sign it".

    Use common sense!