Obama Threatens Action in Libya
- Thread starter over9five
- Start date
And as Donald Trump says: "To the winner belongs the spoils. Keep the oil"
Who cares what Donald says. What does his hair say?
trplnkl
555
I'd vote for him if he was bald....kinda of a kinship thang.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Here's more thought on intervention and Libya with an interesting historical perspective.
And some more thoughts on "armed" humanitarianism.
In any conflict between nationstates and regardless of noble decrees, it's not the war we can see that should make us step back and question but it's "The War You Don't See" that should!
And some more thoughts on "armed" humanitarianism.
In any conflict between nationstates and regardless of noble decrees, it's not the war we can see that should make us step back and question but it's "The War You Don't See" that should!
wkmac
Well-Known Member
BTW: If intervention in Libya is so justified, ask this question of yourself. Would I sacrifice everything that I am, my life and all I have to make sure no innocent Libyains are harmed by Gadhafi? Would you die yourself to make sure Gadhafi is stopped? If no, then how can you support others being sent to do what you yourself would not in a voluntary situation choose to do?
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
My life? Probably not. A few hundred cruise missiles? Certainly!
I dont claim to have all of the answers as far as Libya is concerned, and it may very well be that we lack the military capability of removing Ghaddafi from power. But we did have the military capability of destroying the armored column that was about to start slaughtering civilians, and we do have the military capability of denying Ghaddafi the use of air power to attack civilians. If we cannot end a civil war, at least we can make it into something resembling a fair fight. We had no good choices as far as Libya was concerned, I think we picked the "least worst" option. Sitting idly by and watching a bunch of civilians get slaughtered would not have been acceptable.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Why not organize a voluntary action to raise money to buy the weapons from weapons makers and then send those over directly to arm the rebels. Purely voluntary and doesn't involve the action of gov't. Ask for military experts and soldiers to volunteer to go over in a non gov't role and help these people and collect money from voluntary contributions to pay their way and for their time.
Oh, but we wouldn't do that or donate money to such a cause you say? Then how much of an importance is it to us in the big picture? Would you place a debt burden on your children and children's children for this? Lots of moral dilemma's no doubt!
You are correct about one thing, it's not an easy black and white picture but then when can just ignore the region, it's long history in regards to themselves and the west as well, and just accept that the people running things who always lie and break campaign promises are for once actually telling us the truth!
I find it ironic that we go into Iraq on humanitarian grounds (stop Saddam from killing his people) and now Libya in the case of Gadhafi but why then do we not do the same in several spots in Africa where just as bad if not worse is taking place? What's different? What missing in Africa that's not in Iraq and Libya? Hmmmmm! O let's begin to question why as I think this is a good thing to do so that we don't Lose more and more of what makes this land great. Just a thought!
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I agree More and that is a very wise point to ponder. In the 80's, we gave weapons and expertise to the Afghan rebels and that came back to haunt us. In the 80's we gave weapons and expertise to Saddam Hussein and that came back to haunt us. In the 1920's, 1930's and especially in the 1940's we gave aid and expertise to the Soviet Union and that came back to haunt us. Seems to me our track record over time is just not that good and reliable.
Question: "If" Libya owes money to international banks and bank organizations such as for example, the World Bank or International Monetary Fund, would this influence policy makers especially right now with economics on such shakey grounds to intervene in Libya just to protect their positions in order to be paid back?
Hey, I'm just asking a question!
Hmmm, I wonder what Saddam Hussein owed pre August 1990' and then again pre Sept. 2001'?
wkmac
Well-Known Member
trplnkl
555
Probably not
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Is Libya an Obama/Democrat ploy to split the republican vote going into 2012'?
Now that would color the already bloody hands of the the man of Peace an even darker shade of red!
I wonder why the rush of humanitarianism in the case of Libya but for years East Timor has been all but ignored and unspoken by even the Obama bloody flag wavers.
Now that would color the already bloody hands of the the man of Peace an even darker shade of red!
I wonder why the rush of humanitarianism in the case of Libya but for years East Timor has been all but ignored and unspoken by even the Obama bloody flag wavers.
Babagounj
Strength through joy
See Code Pink has made an impact.............................
Rebs paint roof vehicles bright pink to avoid friendly fire...
Rebs paint roof vehicles bright pink to avoid friendly fire...
I think, Wk that your position is that war is always wrong and that America and her President therefore have blood on their hands. That is of course a legitimate belief, but it is unlikely to persuade when the examples given are Bosnia and Kosovo. Most still believe them to be examples when America got "intervention" right. And that the Republicans are split on the policy as it relates to Libya may be a by-product (one that can be exploited as the 2012 campaign ramps up), I don't believe it even entered into the decision-making process.
klein
Für Meno :)
What people here seem to forget:
Yugoslawia was a UN approved war, with most UN capible members taking part of it, just like it is now in Libya.
Yes, the US could have stayed out of it, and I'm certain the Europeans, Canadians, and other countries would have been more the capible to do it without the US.
Where would the US and Obama stand if they didn't take part in Libya ?
That the US is no longer a powerful country, or they only like go to war for thier own greed, or that under Obama, the US is just plain chicken and weak ?
The last numbers I heard, was the majority of the American people agreed to this UN intervention and the US taking part in it.
And believe me or not, this is really not a war, but much more of a peace mission, simply to stop Gadaffi bombing and killing his own citizens, and yes, siding with the rebels.
Just much like former Yugoslavia, and even less then that, since no ground forces are being used at all.
Personally, I was frustrated it took so long for the UN to say the majic words and finally vote to intervene.
And, I hope they come to faster decisions in the future.
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