Planned Day???

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by tranham, Jul 5, 2005.

  1. tranham

    tranham Guest

    Ok, is it me or does UPS continue to raise the stops to get a 8hr day? I am a FT cover driver and it is the same on all the routes. What used to take 115 to plan is now 130. A 8hr day now seems to take 8.75 or more: even if I speed, run and ignore a few methods. Has anyone ever filed to have a routes planed stops reduced? It feels like they are stealing time from me after all.

    Robert In Tennessee
  2. toonertoo

    toonertoo Guest

    Tranham, aka robert, read the past threads, then you will know it is not only you. You can join our club. Read 8 hr request and planned day, keep your self informed, its a jungle out there, and even worse on a cover driver.
  3. wily_old_vet

    wily_old_vet Guest

    Robert-No you can't file on this because the union doesn't recognize the companies operational standards.
  4. crappie

    crappie Guest

    Tranham you can file on it .The next thing ups will do is ride with you and say you are not following the methods.
    The union saying they do not recognize time studys really has no power at all.Ups just finds you at fault for not following the methods.
  5. sendagain

    sendagain Guest

    The bean counters expected everyone to deliver their routes faster when PAS was implemented, so routes were drawn up with more work on them. It looked good on paper, but looking at stops inside the Diad actually slowed down the process, kind of like walking by the leader board at the US Open.
  6. ok2bclever

    ok2bclever Guest

    Unless you have a dishonest local management team (certainly possible) they can only find you at fault for not following the methods - if you are not following the methods.

    Granted, it will take more than just following the methods to enforce your contractual rights to such as 8 hour requests and 9 1/2 hour violations.

    Unless you have a truly wonderful and steadfast local management team
    (certainly possible) you will still have to stand up for yourself and file grievances so that your local management can stand up to their bosses and say "we have to honor this employy's rights because he knows what he is doing and is willing to do it".

    UPS would have a serious problem if this was happening a lot, but the chances of that happening is fairly slim so they are ok.

    If, you cannot follow the methods you are probably better off just whining and bitching here about the company being so tough, the Teamsters being useless and life in general being so unfair to relieve some of the stress and stay quiet at work and hope they don't notice you.
  7. crappie

    crappie Guest

    That is the whole point UPS makes up stuff if they want to .Do you know how many methods there are .Have a freind of mine who has 23 yrs and was fired for not folowing the methods .
    What was really the problem they wanted him to run ,work faster .Dishonest UPS management noooo.

    (Message edited by crappie on July 06, 2005)
  8. gadistrict

    gadistrict Guest

    Just like there are dishonest management crappie, there are also dishonest hourly employees.
  9. Come on are known to make the rules as they go...kinda like two kids playing games.As long as they dont have to take the responsibility.Just like this past friday a supt ran an area with a rookie and failed to make a very important pick up missing 115 packages.They had to send air driver on sat to make pick up and up date all of them nda.No big deal to what would they do it it was aregular got it!!
  10. omegaman

    omegaman Guest

    tranham, don't be a victim of UPS. If you do the job honestly and follow all the methods, you will simply just be working longer hours. If you don't want it, get your steward to enforce the excessive overtime part of your contract. Do not run, speed, skip your lunch, or violate UPS policy or procedure to finish the work by the same time with the additional work. Let UPS play all the games they want with the numbers, we have never recognized them and never will.
  11. GA,
    you are right, But where are the people or procedures to keep them honest, I remember a few years ago there were suprise center audits, I haven`t seen one in about 5 years.As a driver there are a lot of check and balances for us, what happened to checking management. I feel some days the inmates are running the prison...
  12. gman

    gman Guest

    About ten months ago, we got a new sup in our building. Nice guy, fair guy, in my opinion at least. His job assignment was to ride for three days straight with every driver in the building. At the end of your three day ride, you sat down with him and discussed your dispatch and how well you followed the methods and what the two of you felt was a resonable dispatch. Now some guys (gals) couldn't come to terms with what they thought was fair but I and many others came to what was an agreed on average stop count for a decent planned day. They actually asked you to sign a form stating you agreed to make every effort to hold to that agreement and perform to the agreed on standards. Some guys signed and some didn't. At any rate, three months later, the roof fell in and EVERYBODY got another 12-15 stops or more. Although it means absolutly nothing now, when ever I have a bad day and run and hour and a half late, I just bring up the fact that WE signed an agreement that what is now a 7.4 plan was BY AGREEMENT an 8.3 planned day 10 months ago. They usually just go find someone else to pick on. How fast the rules change.
  13. ok2bclever

    ok2bclever Guest


    QD makes a very valid point. The checks and balances are set up much more stringently to catch and punish the hourly.

    Supervision running dodges on the other hand are often ignored as long as it isn't affecting the bottom line unless it becomes too clear that the hourly are aware that higher ups are ignoring it.

    The other part of this and perhaps the greater problem is UPS believes that 10 to 20 percent of the workforce cannot be trusted to perform at maximum effort without whips.

    As they have never been able to figure out for sure who the ten, twenty percent is they treat everyone as untrustworthy.
  14. gadistrict

    gadistrict Guest

    Do you guys seriously think it is so simple for the business (center) manager to just add drivers to help alleviate over-dispatched routes? Or to implement new permanant routes? All center mgmt teams have to do as their instructed from the district level mgmt, just like drivers have to from their center mgmt team. There are a lot of politics involved and many decisions are made from people who only see the numbers. It isn't just a matter of the center mgr realizing that he/she needs to add some routes. I'm not saying that it is the right way of doing things, but that is how it is done. That is how it always has been done and always will be. That is how the corporation game is played all over the world, it isn't fair but we must all deal with it.

    I will admit that there are a lot of shady on-road supervisors and center mgrs out there. I think it is because they feel pressured to over-achieve statisically speaking. That and they want to show off to their district manager so that they can get some promotion/brownie points.

    By the way, there are still audit teams floating around checking up on management. I can tell you from personal experience. Wasn't a pretty site for one of my on-roads, and he paid the price for what he was doing.

    With the implementation of PAS/EDD there are a lot of drivers that are getting...for a lack of better words, screwed. We (mgmt) know this. But we are told from mgmt high up above us that this is just a temporary stage and that it will get better. I understand where you guys are coming from, but I guess what I'm really trying to say is that it is not as easy as you think it is for your center management to change things.

    And since you drivers dont have the pleasure of hearing these wonderful conference calls, let me asure you that there are plenty of center managers screaming about over dispatched routes on behalf of the drivers. It does the ctr mgmt team no good to have angry and sometimes hostile drivers from being over dispatched and not being able to go home. We can get more done from a happy and cooperative group of drivers than we can from a frustrated one.

    Some things are just out of our control....
  15. pkgdriver

    pkgdriver Guest

    Good post GA
  16. ok2bclever

    ok2bclever Guest

    Well, the only thing not 100% accurate in your statement was the "That is how it always has been done and always will be."

    Long ago that level could actually make decisions although they had to justify them if they bucked the system.

    Not so anymore, today's center manager is basically an order taker with very restricted resources and a dog to be kicked at least once a day.

    Many centers cannot come close to the demanded stats, whether it is obsolete buildings and equipment, old vehicles, old employees or whatever and there is no winning or making demanded goals so they just get ripped new rears every day on the conference calls.

    I would not have their job.

    I have no idea how this bean counter on high command center sht rolls down hill situation can be turned around either as they don't truly listen up high.

    If their question polls don't give them the results they want to hear they just tweak the questions because all they are really after is stats, not truth or results.

    However, not standing up for contractual rights will not improve working conditions at all.
  17. toonertoo

    toonertoo Guest

    Gman, you are singing the same song I am. I signed mine for 12 sporh. Although I never did 12 an hr on my rides. And I was scratch, with 72 stops and 20 pick ups for 8 hrs( actually 7.80 OR time). No one says much to me either, but now if I am under an hour I know I am really scratch. I also had my now mgr ride with me when he was a sup, found nothing wrong with my methods, and I was .13 over with 70 stops and 20 pu's. Now 102 is under?????? A swing driver ran my route one day with 118, and was under???????? Of course although I do not have deep training in time study, I believe the size of the pkg car is figured in. An 800 to 1000 may decrease sort time, but increases walking time??? And the way the routes have been butchered, I dont believe it to be the same. But some time study guy would have to figure that. I just keep my signed paper handy, and when I run 14 sporh, and I am 1.5 hrs late, I just say HMMMMM how could that be, and we know all are being pressured but in my heart I know I did my best, thats all we can do.

    So my question would be how do you file on that? They will show on paper that they only gave you an 8.3 it just took you 9.8 to do it. We dont have access to last years records, they are probaly buried with the deep sea scrolls.

    (Message edited by toonertoo on July 06, 2005)
  18. pd109

    pd109 Guest

    We`re not on PAS yet and nobody has approached us to sign anything.My point is,as we all know,there
    are certain variables in a so called planned day.
    Ideally you can do X amount of del/pu in a day.
    but: Example,you have 3 Dell systems in 3 apts
    on the same day.You have a split from Daves area
    Its only 11:30 AM and you already have 14 oncalls on top of your usual 23 far as I can see PAS changes nothing.You pick up the phone and explain to them that you are either going for your break,requesting a code 05 or asking for help. As long as you are working hard and following the methods,its thier fault for overdispatching you.PAS or PAPER...the phone is your friend.
  19. rushfan

    rushfan Guest

    My planned day=Show up to work and work 'till it's done. I was told by an old timer not to schedule anything monday thru friday from 8:30 am to 9:00 pm.
    Isn't that the truth.
  20. Someone here said it before, the only numbers I think about are.
    1. Hours till I get off
    2. Days till the weekend
    3. Weeks till my next vacation
    Those numbers are definite for the most part. Not some magic mombo jombo formula used to calculate UPS numbers. To Tooner contract says it's a violation of hours WORKED not dispatched.