Planned Parenthood

[OLDMAN3]

Sometimes, Liberals and Conservatives aren't as far apart as some might think. The idea of ending a child's life is disgusting to me, but if someone has no viable alternative, the potential child's life is over. I know a lot of Liberals who feel the same way. Abortion is an escape route when there aren't good alternatives available.

There is a vast chasm between pro-lifers and pro-choicers.

Pro-lifers don't see killing the child as a "viable alternative"

Ironic that you used the word "viable" from the Latin word Vite (meaning life)

Having concern for human life, born and unborn, is not an either-or proposition. It is a false dichotomy to only have concern for those born or unborn. You can see the hypocrisy of the people who oppose abortion but have no concern for the baby after she is born. But you do not see the same hypocrisy of those who advocate for concern for the born baby, but say killing the child should be legal before she is born. All human life is sacred, and all innocent human life should be respected and protected.

I do not respect those who view this as only a political football...on either side.
58+ million babies aborted in the USA since Roe v Wade.
1.8+ Billion babies aborted world-wide since 1980

Those of us that are Christians can not be silent.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Those of us that are Christians can not be silent.

Clearly.
I think it's a good idea to keep your stance on abortion in perspective as a religious belief.

 

[MrFedEx]

Clearly.
I think it's a good idea to keep your stance on abortion in perspective as a religious belief.

Bingo.

 

[MrFedEx]

There is a vast chasm between pro-lifers and pro-choicers.

Pro-lifers don't see killing the child as a "viable alternative"

Ironic that you used the word "viable" from the Latin word Vite (meaning life)

Having concern for human life, born and unborn, is not an either-or proposition. It is a false dichotomy to only have concern for those born or unborn. You can see the hypocrisy of the people who oppose abortion but have no concern for the baby after she is born. But you do not see the same hypocrisy of those who advocate for concern for the born baby, but say killing the child should be legal before she is born. All human life is sacred, and all innocent human life should be respected and protected.

I do not respect those who view this as only a political football...on either side.
58+ million babies aborted in the USA since Roe v Wade.
1.8+ Billion babies aborted world-wide since 1980

Those of us that are Christians can not be silent.

Then Christians need to actually do something other than try and change Roe v. Wade if life is sacred. Why do you think that your religious ideas can be imposed on everyone else in our society? I respect your beliefs, but this is a secular issue for the majority of citizens, not a religious one. The law won't be changing, so you need to find another way to save those lives. I find it highly ironic that the conservatives who "value life" so highly are so willing to flatten other countries or threaten war.

 

[Dr.Brownz]

I hate delivering to PP/ The woman at the counter is such a .

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

I hate delivering to PP/ The woman at the counter is such a .

I don't deliver to a PP but the nurses at the dialysis places and most urban hospitals are terrible too.

Just judging straight by employee attitudes, I'd say the ones working in pediatrician and dental offices are living the good life.

 

[OLDMAN3]

Clearly.
I think it's a good idea to keep your stance on abortion in perspective as a religious belief.

Not so.
My stance on abortion is based on science, natural law, concern for the common good and the good of the individual as well as my religious beliefs.
Why is it that some believe that perspectives of Christians can be completely discounted simply because they are Christians. I believe this is a type of subtle (or not so subtle) religious bigotry.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Not so.
My stance on abortion is based on science, natural law, concern for the common good and the good of the individual as well as my religious beliefs.
Why is it that some believe that perspectives of Christians can be completely discounted simply because they are Christians. I believe this is a type of subtle (or not so subtle) religious bigotry.

I guess it's because they preach about the sanctity of life in this thread, then in another suggest we carpet bomb the middle east or let Baltimore burn to the ground.

 

[newfie]

Ban condoms and The Pill too! All form of birth control should be illegal!

I'm all for it if this prevents the sale of human body parts by Planned Parenthood.

 

[OLDMAN3]

average

I guess it's because they preach about the sanctity of life in this thread, then in another suggest we carpet bomb the middle east or let Baltimore burn to the ground.

When did I suggest we carpet bomb the middle east, or let Baltimore burn?
I guess us pro-lifers Christians are all the same huh?
None of us care for the poor etc. etc.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

When did I suggest we carpet bomb the middle east?

When did I suggest Christians opinions can be discounted simply because they are Christian?
I thought we were just generalizing.

 

[OLDMAN3]

When did I suggest Christians opinions can be discounted simply because they are Christian?
I thought we were just generalizing.

DriveInDriveOut said:
"I think it's a good idea to keep your stance on abortion in perspective as a religious belief."

 

[newfie]

Then Christians need to actually do something other than try and change Roe v. Wade if life is sacred.

why? if we believe abortion is the killing of a child why would we do something else?

Why do you think that your religious ideas can be imposed on everyone else in our society?

why would a religious belief against murder be an imposition against anyone else?

I respect your beliefs, but this is a secular issue for the majority of citizens, not a religious one.

with all due respect murder is not a religious belief. I'm not sure you really do respect those beliefs , if you did you would understand that many of us sincerely believe its the murder of another human being. As such we are obligated as members of the human race to fight it.

The law won't be changing, so you need to find another way to save those lives.

It appears you now agree that we are trying to save a life what other way to save a life is there then to prevent its death?

I find it highly ironic that the conservatives who "value life" so highly are so willing to flatten other countries or threaten war

there are many ironies on both sides of the fence. I find it ironic that someone can be against the execution of a convicted killer but yet shred a human life into many pieces with no remorse. With all due respect have you really thought this through?

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

DriveInDriveOut said:
"I think it's a good idea to keep your stance on abortion in perspective as a religious belief."

I didn't say your opinion should be discounted because of your religious belief though, simply pointing out that it is the dominating factor that shapes your viewpoint.

 

[OLDMAN3]

I didn't say your opinion should be discounted because of your religious belief though, simply pointing out that it is the dominating factor that shapes your viewpoint.

No,
You called my stance on abortion a religious viewpoint, and I should keep it in perspective as such.

And you further responded to my following question "Why is it that some believe that perspectives of Christians can be completely discounted simply because they are Christians."
with:
"I guess it's because they preach about the sanctity of life in this thread, then in another suggest we carpet bomb the middle east or let Baltimore burn to the ground."

So you in fact admitted that you discount Christian's opinions.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

No,
You called my stance on abortion a religious viewpoint, and I should keep it in perspective as such.

Yes,
I think your view on the subject is inseparable from your religious beliefs, and it's important to understand not everyone holds the same beliefs as you.
I think it's important that no christian should be forced to have an abortion, beyond that, I don't think their view on the matter should be forced on others.

 

[OLDMAN3]

Yes,
I think your view on the subject is inseparable from your religious beliefs, and it's important to understand not everyone holds the same beliefs as you.
I think it's important that no christian should be forced to have an abortion, beyond that, I don't think their view on the matter should be forced on others.

I already pointed out that many factors shape my view on abortion including science,
natural law, concern for good individuals and society as well as my religious views. But because I admit to being a Christian you think my views should have no influence on the society as a whole?
The marginalization of Christians' opinions within our societal discourse is religious bigotry and is truly un-American.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

I already pointed out that many factors shape my view on abortion including science,
natural law, concern for good individuals and society as well as my religious views. But because I admit to being a Christian you think my views should have no influence on the society as a whole?

I'd bet good money the "many factors" that influence your view on abortion are also tied to your religious beliefs.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe your parents weren't christian. Maybe you were raised as an atheist and you developed these views on science and natural law completely independent of religion.
Maybe you were the most enlightened toddler in the history of humanity. More power to you man.

That's certainly not the case with me though. My catholic upbringing certainly influenced my opposition to abortion, euthanasia, the death penalty, and wars of aggression.

The marginalization of Christians' opinions within our societal discourse is religious bigotry and is truly un-American.

The idea that you're being persecuted is deeply embedded in christian culture, whether it is factual or not. There is certainly a war on religion going on in this country, we'll just have to agree to disagree on what that religion is.

 

[GetTacosOrDieTrying]

Abortions helped Christopher Reeve walk again.

 

[MrFedEx]

Then Christians need to actually do something other than try and change Roe v. Wade if life is sacred.

why? if we believe abortion is the killing of a child why would we do something else?

Why do you think that your religious ideas can be imposed on everyone else in our society?

why would a religious belief against murder be an imposition against anyone else?

I respect your beliefs, but this is a secular issue for the majority of citizens, not a religious one.

with all due respect murder is not a religious belief. I'm not sure you really do respect those beliefs , if you did you would understand that many of us sincerely believe its the murder of another human being. As such we are obligated as members of the human race to fight it.

The law won't be changing, so you need to find another way to save those lives.

It appears you now agree that we are trying to save a life what other way to save a life is there then to prevent its death?

I find it highly ironic that the conservatives who "value life" so highly are so willing to flatten other countries or threaten war

there are many ironies on both sides of the fence. I find it ironic that someone can be against the execution of a convicted killer but yet shred a human life into many pieces with no remorse. With all due respect have you really thought this through?

Legally, abortion isn't murder. That means our society must accept the law or change it. I don't see it changing. Do I like abortion? No. I also do not want to live in a theocracy where a religious order tells the rest of us to accept their beliefs.

Abortion is legal, and this is an excellent example of why we have a separation of church and state.