Question about dishonesty and cardinal sins/rules

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Drivingonempty, Sep 3, 2009.

  1. Drivingonempty

    Drivingonempty New Member

    Is dishonesty defined anywhere? It falls under a cardinal rule and reason for immediate discharge but where is dishonesty itself defined? Its seems like such a general term that virtually anything could fall under such a catagory.
     
  2. brownrodster

    brownrodster New Member



    Dictionary?
     
  3. Drivingonempty

    Drivingonempty New Member

    That's not really funny when people are being fired at whim and family's are suffering because of it.
     
  4. GeorgiaBrown

    GeorgiaBrown New Member

    Drivingonempty,

    I do believe it is outlined in the contract...I don't have one in front of me but I am pretty sure it's in there.....
     
  5. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    Lying,stealing,sleeping with the center manager`s wife,etc.
     
  6. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    sleeping with the CMs mistress (outside or hourly)
     
  7. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    Using a public restroom instead of a pee bottle
     
  8. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    or sleeping with the center manager.
     
  9. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    some of the stewards do it
     
  10. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    Sorry Jackson, but yes that was funny.
     
  11. chopstic

    chopstic New Member

    but only if you lie about it...
     
  12. rocket man

    rocket man Well-Known Member

    DOSE IT APPLY IN FL ST PETE :surprised:
     
  13. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    what!? I`m sorry but you`ll have to speak up!
     
  14. filthpig

    filthpig Active Member

    The cardinal sins are:
    Dishonesty
    No seat belt

    Now you know.
     
  15. MC4YOU2

    MC4YOU2 Yep, not wearing brown anymore

    This is a favorite loophole that UPS loves to use to intimidate the troops with. Since they can declare dishonesty to include virtually anything, which I doubt was the original intent of the language, they can pretty much fire anyone they want at any time for "dishonesty". Just another area of language that obviously now needs rewording to allow those charged with it a panel hearing immediately to determine the rationale for the accusation in the first place. It's just too much undue hardship for employees to endure the long wait before hearing at panel and then region and maybe even arbitration, especially since most are reinstated anyway. Just a bunch of posturing by the higher ups to assert dominance over the lowly hourlies imho.
     
  16. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt

    So this has to beg the question....

    Do you think there should be certain levels of dishonesty ??

    ie: It's OK to be dishonest to a certain degree..?? But once you cross that line....

    "That's not really funny when people are being fired at whim and family's are suffering because of it."

    So it's OK as long as you have a family..??


    Help me with this one....



    -BUG-
    _________________________________________________________

    "Stupid people should be encourged to say stupid things.... that way, we always know who the stupid people are"
     
  17. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    Let me help you.

    If management is firing people for "alleged" dishonesty - is that OK with you? Guilty until proven innocent, while losing their job at least temporarily and losing a source of income so management can improve their already phoney balogna numbers and paid hours?

    I do not think anyone is talking about proven dishonesty - which is an inherently different animal.
     
  18. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt

    Sleve,

    The original post was asking for a defined list.... at least that's my impression. And why would you want such a definitive description ?

    Alot of "white paper" contract's have such language.... especially for attendance.

    4 infractions = verbal warning
    5 infractions = written warning
    6 infractions = suspension
    7 infractions = termination............ PERIOD !! With no recourse.

    It gives you room to negotiate with less defined language. :happy2:

    Let's face it.... even with a grievance procedure.... a panel system ( in most area's ) it's a lower threshold of proof the company has to offer. It's not like a court of law where they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

    So why would you want to give them any more ammunition ?


    -BUG-

    ______________________________
     
  19. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest


    Can you give some specific examples of coworkers being discharged ?
     
  20. 639OldTimer

    639OldTimer New Member

    In Industrial Arbitration "dishonesty" is defined as "intent to deceive, defraud & profit from your actions". As you know the Company alleges dishonesty when in fact the violation is usually methods or procedures.

    Article 7 is supposed to keep employee(s) on the clock except for "Cardinal Infractions" under the local supplement or rider.