TDU and public opinion of unionism.

[Overpaid Union Thug]

You SHOULD care what Dave Ramsey thinks because his financial advice and career advice have done far more to educate Americans (and foreigners that follow him) on how to take control of their lives than any left wing "progressive" idea or social programs could ever do. Only those in favor of the latter would consider someone taking control of their own lives a "cop out." Keep using California's crap economy and Wal-mart as your benchmarks on why people struggle in life. Your world will always seem bleak that way. Some of us prefer to look elsewhere for enlightenment.

To put a spin on a classic joke: a women walks into a psychology's office and tells him her needs are being met; he tells her "get new needs." A struggling single mom working two jobs pays David Ramsey for advice. He advises her to get a third job. Same concept.

Nor does Mr. ramsey's advice constitute a financial Bible. He's a sales person, often selling unrealistic advice (e.g. "normal" 12% market returns) and often leads his customers toward high-commissioned sales persons/organization not always acting in their best interests. Plus there's alternative views to being debt-free. In fact, some people make a lot of money off of their debt.
- Classic example: In 2008, my credit card offered me two-years 0% interest & no transaction fees on checks written against it. So I wrote one out for the entire balance ($32K), deposited it into a two-year CD at an inflated interest rate during the banking crisis, and earned well over $5,000 in interest. Completely free money earned against a high debt level.
- Since Ramsey believes so strongly in the market, why doesn't he promote mortgaging (& continued equity loans / re-fi) the entire value of your home & investing it into the markets, since the returns (per him) will be three times the interest rate you're paying? And in high-cost housing markets, historically returns off of renting & investing the difference (between ownership) have demonstrated that home ownership doesn't always make financial sense.
- There's still a cost to driving a 10-year-old fully paid for car. Scheduled maintenance costs increase, and parts begin to fail & need replacement. Consider an end-of-season sale on an entry level Chevy Malibu for just over $17K right now (with the UPS discount). Including sales tax & 2% (market rate) financing, that's less than $18K-$19K out-the-door (before tax benefit), depending on the location. In three years it's projected you'll earn $14K from a private sale for that car. Depending on your ability to perform maintenance and repair (assuming you keep the car road worthy) and local insurance/registration rates, the three-year cost of the new car may be lower than that of the 10yo car. It just entails a paper debt load.

I'm sorry you had to turn to Dave Ramsey to do your thinking for you, but alas, whatever makes you feel better.

So, basically what you are saying is that a struggling single mom should ignore Dave Ramsey, who has helped thousands possibly millions, of Americans come out of crippling debt by simply following his proven, and FREE baby steps program and then are able to invest HOWEVER AND WITH WHOEVER THEY CHOSE and instead take an unproven and dangerously risky approach by attempting to use even MORE DEBT to build wealth? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! And THAT folks is exactly why so many Americans are in such deep water these days.

Dave Ramsey doesn't teach dangerously risky get rich quick schemes. Nor is he just a salesman that is selling a useless product. He teaches useful, practical financial and simple career advice that anyone can use. He learned what he teaches by actually doing it first. I can vouch for the program myself too. I am currently on baby step four. But I can remember being in step one while I was working two, sometimes THREE jobs while my wife was working a fulltime job and raising ours first child. We paid of a rather expensive SUV a few years early as well as student loans and credit cards. All it took was drive and effort. It was almost fun.
So, Yeah.....there are plenty of alternative financial and career views out there. And plenty of them aren't practical for the average American.

 

[oldupsman]

So, basically what you are saying is that a struggling single mom should ignore Dave Ramsey, who has helped thousands possibly millions, of Americans come out of crippling debt by simply following his proven, and FREE baby steps program and then are able to invest HOWEVER AND WITH WHOEVER THEY CHOSE and instead take an unproven and dangerously risky approach by attempting to use even MORE DEBT to build wealth? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! And THAT folks is exactly why so many Americans are in such deep water these days.

Dave Ramsey doesn't teach dangerously risky get rich quick schemes. Nor is he just a salesman that is selling a useless product. He teaches useful, practical financial and simple career advice that anyone can use. He learned what he teaches by actually doing it first. I can vouch for the program myself too. I am currently on baby step four. But I can remember being in step one while I was working two, sometimes THREE jobs while my wife was working a fulltime job and raising ours first child. We paid of a rather expensive SUV a few years early as well as student loans and credit cards. All it took was drive and effort. It was almost fun.

What? You mean actually be personally responsible for your own actions and decisions? Dave Ramsey is so right on it's incredible. I'm totally debt free myself.
And you put it simply. DRIVE AND EFFORT. God forbid we have any of that. Let's sit back and collect stinkin food stamps instead.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

So, basically what you are saying is that a struggling single mom should ignore Dave Ramsey, who has helped thousands possibly millions, of Americans come out of crippling debt by simply following his proven, and FREE baby steps program and then are able to invest HOWEVER AND WITH WHOEVER THEY CHOSE and instead take an unproven and dangerously risky approach by attempting to use even MORE DEBT to build wealth? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! And THAT folks is exactly why so many Americans are in such deep water these days.

Dave Ramsey doesn't teach dangerously risky get rich quick schemes. Nor is he just a salesman that is selling a useless product. He teaches useful, practical financial and simple career advice that anyone can use. He learned what he teaches by actually doing it first. I can vouch for the program myself too. I am currently on baby step four. But I can remember being in step one while I was working two, sometimes THREE jobs while my wife was working a fulltime job and raising ours first child. We paid of a rather expensive SUV a few years early as well as student loans and credit cards. All it took was drive and effort. It was almost fun.

What? You mean actually be personally responsible for your own actions and decisions? Dave Ramsey is so right on it's incredible. I'm totally debt free myself.
And you put it simply. DRIVE AND EFFORT. God forbid we have any of that. Let's sit back and collect stinkin food stamps instead.

I miss listening to his radio show. That ended when I went full-time. His baby step three saved me. I had an out of work injury and had to miss quite a bit of work but my emergency fund was in place so there were no worries. Just recently built it back up again.

 

[oldupsman]

I miss listening to his radio show. That ended when I went full-time. His baby step three saved me. I had an out of work injury and had to miss quite a bit of work but my emergency fund was in place so there were no worries. Just recently built it back up again.

What? The age old theory of putting money away for a rainy day. You're a wild man.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I miss listening to his radio show. That ended when I went full-time. His baby step three saved me. I had an out of work injury and had to miss quite a bit of work but my emergency fund was in place so there were no worries. Just recently built it back up again.

What? The age old theory of putting money away for a rainy day. You're a wild man.

Yeah I know. How silly of me. I should have just borrowed against my mortgage. Then put that money towards an interest free credit card and then spent all of it on lottery scratch offs. My emergency fund would surely be in the $millions$ by now!!!! Screw working a second job! LOL!

 

[Bagels]

I do enjoy your ignorance on the job market. The job market's so weak that most employers currently mandate a large availability, then schedule you 3-8 hours per week. I endured this a couple years ago, when I was working a second job (while attending school) after UPS cut my hours to 17.5 (previously worked 21.5-23.5) per week. I worked multiple jobs -- some weeks I would be scheduled 20 hours, others 0. One job was a grocery store that was 32 miles RT (the only place I could find employment at). I was frequently scheduled the closing shift from 6PM-10PM, which required me to battle intense rush hour traffic (over an hour to travel 16 miles) only to be sent home after 30 minutes because the store wasn't busy enough effectively yielding it a job that was costing me money. I worked multiple jobs, and each yielded a similar scenario. And the job market hasn't changed much today, either.

In my UPS facility, PTers start by working no more than 3.5 hours per day (higher seniority folks chase them off the clock). In the spring, fall & much of the summer months, they'll typically work 4 days per week -- it takes about 3-4 years seniority to work Mondays here. During the winter, they'll be on-call. Because most people are in search of steady work, usually only young people stick around. We've had people stick around for the insurance, only to be told the company was no longer waiving its minimum hours work requirement -- therefore rendering it 3 years before employees were truly eligible for benefits.

But to people like yourself, they remember starting out -- for similar wages, which had a lot more buying power due to inflation of course (but those details shouldn't be important) -- working 20-hours + each week. They remember gas being less than $2/gallon (heck, usually $1/gallon), not the $4/gallon it is today. Like you, they simply cannot comprehend that market status quo and in their heads they remember things as they were, not as they are. Sad.

And yes, Dave Ramsey is essentially selling a product. Most of his so-called "free" advice is common sense. Not surprised of your feeling on either.

So, basically what you are saying is that a struggling single mom should ignore Dave Ramsey, who has helped thousands possibly millions, of Americans come out of crippling debt by simply following his proven, and FREE baby steps program and then are able to invest HOWEVER AND WITH WHOEVER THEY CHOSE and instead take an unproven and dangerously risky approach by attempting to use even MORE DEBT to build wealth? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! And THAT folks is exactly why so many Americans are in such deep water these days.

Dave Ramsey doesn't teach dangerously risky get rich quick schemes. Nor is he just a salesman that is selling a useless product. He teaches useful, practical financial and simple career advice that anyone can use. He learned what he teaches by actually doing it first. I can vouch for the program myself too. I am currently on baby step four. But I can remember being in step one while I was working two, sometimes THREE jobs while my wife was working a fulltime job and raising ours first child. We paid of a rather expensive SUV a few years early as well as student loans and credit cards. All it took was drive and effort. It was almost fun.
So, Yeah.....there are plenty of alternative financial and career views out there. And plenty of them aren't practical for the average American.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I do enjoy your ignorance on the job market. The job market's so weak that most employers currently mandate a large availability, then schedule you 3-8 hours per week. I endured this a couple years ago, when I was working a second job (while attending school) after UPS cut my hours to 17.5 (previously worked 21.5-23.5) per week. I worked multiple jobs -- some weeks I would be scheduled 20 hours, others 0. One job was a grocery store that was 32 miles RT (the only place I could find employment at). I was frequently scheduled the closing shift from 6PM-10PM, which required me to battle intense rush hour traffic (over an hour to travel 16 miles) only to be sent home after 30 minutes because the store wasn't busy enough effectively yielding it a job that was costing me money. I worked multiple jobs, and each yielded a similar scenario. And the job market hasn't changed much today, either.

In my UPS facility, PTers start by working no more than 3.5 hours per day (higher seniority folks chase them off the clock). In the spring, fall & much of the summer months, they'll typically work 4 days per week -- it takes about 3-4 years seniority to work Mondays here. During the winter, they'll be on-call. Because most people are in search of steady work, usually only young people stick around. We've had people stick around for the insurance, only to be told the company was no longer waiving its minimum hours work requirement -- therefore rendering it 3 years before employees were truly eligible for benefits.

You are assuming that conditions are like that everywhere in the country. They are not. And in most areas there are always jobs that people could do to supplement whatever they already have. If not..... moving to an area with a better job market is always an option.

But to people like yourself, they remember starting out -- for similar wages, which had a lot more buying power due to inflation of course (but those details shouldn't be important) -- working 20-hours + each week. They remember gas being less than $2/gallon (heck, usually $1/gallon), not the $4/gallon it is today. Like you, they simply cannot comprehend that market status quo and in their heads they remember things as they were, not as they are. Sad.

It's true that prices have gone up but there's always plenty of cheap alternatives. For food there's beans and rice (another Dave Ramsey suggestion). For clothing there's Walmart and second hand stores. Gas is unavoidable but riding a bus, bike, or car pooling is an option. One could also cut back on pleasures like buying DVDs, PS3 games and cut back on internet bandwidth or cancel it completely. Cable tv? Gone! As a driver I can definitely see that people are definitely not making these cuts. At least not in my area.

And yes, Dave Ramsey is essentially selling a product. Most of his so-called "free" advice is common sense. Not surprised of your feeling on either.

If his advice was "common" sense then why is the average American swimming in debt? I guess the general public just loves crippling debt huh? And why would you have a problem with him marketing what he's has learned? I've heard people from every tax bracket call him for help and people from those same brackets call to tell him they are debt free thanks to his advice. What should they have done? Take financial advice from broke people? LOL!

 

[Skooney]

LOL. Did you bother to read my post? It's been happening for over 30 years. Thus far, there's no hard statistics that demonstrate that the rate has increased.

And you're the fool if you believe that companies, in the course of normal business decision making, will not take the opportunity to scapegoat them on ObamaCare.

I said they would. I said UPS is. Scapegoat, or not. They are doing it, lots of companies. If you truly do not believe the amount of companies using Obamacare as a scapegoat, has not increased the reduction in hours across the board, I am not the fool, sir. You are.

Because no liberal research group or media outlet has come out with statistics that said it has not increased, doesn't mean it hasn't. I wonder why you'll never see that come out of a liberal outlet? Lol. Fast food, colleges. Joseph Hansen, the president of the United Food and Commerical workers union, says you will see a tremendous impact to workers hours and incomes. BTW, that union supports Obamacare.

St. Petersburg College reduced 250 professors hours, citing it will cost them over $700,000 to supply health insurance to them. You are honestly going to tell me that it has not increased? That is a joke.

UPS, Forever 21. Village Inn. Subway stores, the list goes on and on.

Oh wait, you'll put the liberal spin on it and say that it's been going on for years, but goes unreported in the media. Lol.

Come on, any fool can see where Obamacare is going.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Oh wait, you'll put the liberal spin on it and say that it's been going on for years, but goes unreported in the media. Lol.

I'm not a liberal, but if he doesn't say it I will.... it has been going on for years.
Difference is now they have someone to blame.

 

[Bagels]

You are assuming that conditions are like that everywhere in the country. They are not. And in most areas there are always jobs that people could do to supplement whatever they already have. If not..... moving to an area with a better job market is always an option. ... It's true that prices have gone up but there's always plenty of cheap alternatives. For food there's beans and rice (another Dave Ramsey suggestion). For clothing there's Walmart and second hand stores. Gas is unavoidable but riding a bus, bike, or car pooling is an option. One could also cut back on pleasures like buying DVDs, PS3 games and cut back on internet bandwidth or cancel it completely. Cable tv? Gone! As a driver I can definitely see that people are definitely not making these cuts. At least not in my area. ... If his advice was "common" sense then why is the average American swimming in debt? I guess the general public just loves crippling debt huh? And why would you have a problem with him marketing what he's has learned? I've heard people from every tax bracket call him for help and people from those same brackets call to tell him they are debt free thanks to his advice. What should they have done? Take financial advice from broke people? LOL!

As I mentioned above, if you were a psychologist you would advise a suicidal patent upset her needs weren't being met to get new needs. It's an equivalent argument, and one that fails. Moving (to one of the few areas with a "booming" job market) isn't practical for everybody. Riding a bicycle to/from work isn't practical for everybody. Etc.

I've volunteered for many years at a local charity and assisted hundreds in creating financial plans. Many work FT for companies such as Walmart, Safeway, Kohl's, as medical assistants, etc. Why are so many in debt? Because their wages are so low. Most of these people live in modest, $500/month one-bedroom apartments in seedy areas, do not have cable TV, internet, etc. Most were brought down by huge medical bills, as they either did not have insurance or had poor insurance with high costs. Many are saddled with high debt from things like cars (there's no public transportation in area, and you'll need a car to get to work) that were purchased from dealers who sold them at 30% (!) interest rates. The list goes on. Good luck getting Dave Ramsey to help them.

I said they would. I said UPS is. Scapegoat, or not. They are doing it, lots of companies. If you truly do not believe the amount of companies using Obamacare as a scapegoat, has not increased the reduction in hours across the board, I am not the fool, sir. You are..

LOL! Yes, you are a fool. This is what we call a logical fallacy. If companies have been doing it for over 30 years, one act simply doesn't suddenly characterize why it's being done now. A small, 13-store retail chain north of me struck an agreement in 2007 -- well before the 2008 election took place -- with their union that fenced incumbent PT health care for five years, then eliminated it after that. FOX News and other conservative outlets repeatedly mention this company as doing this because of ObamaCare (it was actually done as a compromise to keep a FT distribution center open). In fact, a local paper serving the highly conservative area polled its residents and something like 80-something percent blamed it on ObamaCare, even though it was long planned. Say what you want about the "liberal media", but the conservative media will take ANY crumbs on this issue it can get, even if it knows it's false.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

As I mentioned above, if you were a psychologist you would advise a suicidal patent upset her needs weren't being met to get new needs. It's an equivalent argument, and one that fails. Moving (to one of the few areas with a "booming" job market) isn't practical for everybody. Riding a bicycle to/from work isn't practical for everybody. Etc.

That is a ridiculous comparison. It's not even comparing apples to oranges. That would actually be a more fair comparison than yours. We aren't talking about psychologists and suicidal patients. We are talking about average people that just need help. Or a kick in the rear end to wake them up.

I've volunteered for many years at a local charity and assisted hundreds in creating financial plans. Many work FT for companies such as Walmart, Safeway, Kohl's, as medical assistants, etc. Why are so many in debt? Because their wages are so low. Most of these people live in modest, $500/month one-bedroom apartments in seedy areas, do not have cable TV, internet, etc. Most were brought down by huge medical bills, as they either did not have insurance or had poor insurance with high costs. Many are saddled with high debt from things like cars (there's no public transportation in area, and you'll need a car to get to work) that were purchased from dealers who sold them at 30% (!) interest rates. The list goes on. Good luck getting Dave Ramsey to help them.

If their wages are low then they need to cut back on spending or get more education and/or training to get better income or supplement what they already have. It's not rocket science and it's not asking them to move Heaven and Earth. And buying a car for 30% is their fault. 100% their fault for being suckers but that doesn't mean they can't change. Dave Ramsey DOES help the very people you are making out to be just victims of some mythical monster called "society". It's people like you that send them down the wrong path and people like him and people like me that have experienced it that try and clean up the mess. Pure and simple.