Washington Post Slam

[shanp]

Thanks Pickup! Hello back.

 

[dcdriver]

I wrote the letter and was not forced. Many drivers in r ctr did not write the letter and nothing was said.

 

[dannyboy]

Twin Raven

My apology for not making the two conversations more distinctly separated. The second half of my post was directed to sales guy, beginning with the pencil. I also noticed that you did, but he didn't, but proper manners dont seem to be in his basket of goodies he brings to the BC table.

I agree that UPS will not race to increase rates. But they will bump them up to be on par with what FedEx does. There is a lot more copy cat going on at UPS than one would think. But they would raise rates to boost the earnings just to please the investors.

I realize that we are three years away from a new contract. And in that three years, a lot can happen. Like a new president, control of congress, and the list goes on.

I also believe that judging from what I have seen over the last few contracts, that the teamsters have really enjoyed nursing on the breast of success. Central states for example, without the infusion that UPS put in to get out, could have been the beginning of the end of the teamsters.

They want power. Pure power. And they are willing to wheel and deal with anyone that will give them more. That includes UPS and the Gooberment. They are also very willing to use anything and anyone to further their goals.

No one is indispensable.

When (notice I did not say if) FedEx is kicked into the mainstream, Hoffa and his bunch will focus their energy to creating a much larger union membership base. Not only the express (which will be a tough nut to crack) but ground, home and freight. UPS will take a supporting role for them to unionize FedEx. Many other unions will try to butt in, but the teamsters will win out.

But they also know that when FedEx is unionized, the teamsters will also give a lot during the negotiations in 2013 and beyond for the support of UPS during this time.

We have met FedEx on an un-level playing field and not only held our own, but made a huge profit during which time FedEx had had huge losses. Why would we need to level the playing field when we are cleaning their plow now? Yeah, Ive heard all the "strike" threats they have used. But after a while, crying wolf gets you what?

Its because of give backs and concessions from the teamsters, both now and in the future. Worth billions long term, dollars that are saved because the teamsters owes UPS.

So its not "just so where they are union employees, and now presto, we have a level playing field." UPS is not interested in leveling the playing field. They want, and will get, a distinct advantage once they have been removed from the RLA. And FEDEX being unionized is just a small portion of that picture.

The upside? Could be that our retirement plans come out of the red with the new influx of union members.

But that will be short lived. There are too few trees to pick from these days.

d

 

[bbsam]

Here's a potential problem for UPS. The Washington Post article helps Congress piece together a plausible story. Fedex puts out "Brownbailout" claiming that UPS is looking for a legislative bailout and then UPS employees are paid to fill out what amounts to a form letter. If I am a Senator who puts two and two together, doesn't it look like maybe Fedex is correct in it's bailout claim?

 

[Dustyroads]

One would hope that our senators will be looking at the issue very closely, without just scanning the Washington Post. Surely the millions that UPS has spent on lobbying has the senators well informed and lined up on the issue.

All of the rest of this going on is a dog and pony show.

 

[bluehdmc]

One would hope that our senators will be looking at the issue very closely, without just scanning the Washington Post. Surely the millions that UPS has spent on lobbying has the senators well informed and lined up on the issue.

All of the rest of this going on is a dog and pony show.

I agree it's all a dog and pony show.

What the Senators are really worried about is getting reelected. I'm sure wherever public sentiment is it going to influence their votes. Stuffing their mailboxes may help that influence. What would worry them is their name in the Washington Post in a negative light.

A politician has 2 basic goals:

1 To get elected

2 To get re-elected

 

[Dustyroads]

to achieve either of those two basic goals, it requires money, that's where the millions spent on lobbying and pac money comes to play. It's really about money when it comes to re-election.

 

[nervIS]

They list a website where everyone's anonymous as a source????

That's pretty laughable. Lot's of credibility at the Post....

Thats probably what Nixon & Co were thinking in June of 1972. I wasn't paying attention, so I hope everything worked out OK for those guys.

Oh wait, Nixon resigned the PRESIDENCY and the lot of them went to prison.

Damn you unreliable anonymous sources!?!?!??! The communists are obviously behind this. Joe McCarthy, are you out there?

 

[JustTired]

I agree it's all a dog and pony show.

What the Senators are really worried about is getting reelected. I'm sure wherever public sentiment is it going to influence their votes. Stuffing their mailboxes may help that influence. What would worry them is their name in the Washington Post in a negative light.

A politician has 2 basic goals:

1 To get elected

2 To get re-elected

And that's the problem.......eliminate the possiblity of re-election and solve many problems.

1. It would be harder to win influence with money.

2. Only those that felt a desire to "serve their country" would run, as it is no longer a 'career choice'.

One 6-year term for both house and senate would seem sufficient!

 

[whiskey]

Of course that is the reason. Is UPS worried about the plight of the downtrodden Express couriers? Hardly. Will UPS be able to lower its rates if Fedex is under the NLRA? I don't see how.

If the threat of unionization forces Fedex to pay out more to its drivers in wages and benefits and causes Fedex to raise its rates, UPS stands to gain tremendously. It will only raise the cost of doing business for those firms that continue to use Fedex and pay their higher rates, since it will presumably cost less to ship with us. To say it raises the cost of living on America is a bit of a stretch, IMO.

In 1997, UPS and the Teamsters stuck a knife into small business. A lot of blood was let. Most of the wounds healed. Some didn't. It is small business that drives this economy.

 

[tworavens]

Twin Raven

I agree that UPS will not race to increase rates. But they will bump them up to be on par with what FedEx does. There is a lot more copy cat going on at UPS than one would think. But they would raise rates to boost the earnings just to please the investors.

I realize that we are three years away from a new contract. And in that three years, a lot can happen. Like a new president, control of congress, and the list goes on.

I also believe that judging from what I have seen over the last few contracts, that the teamsters have really enjoyed nursing on the breast of success. Central states for example, without the infusion that UPS put in to get out, could have been the beginning of the end of the teamsters.

They want power. Pure power. And they are willing to wheel and deal with anyone that will give them more. That includes UPS and the Gooberment. They are also very willing to use anything and anyone to further their goals.

No one is indispensable.

When (notice I did not say if) FedEx is kicked into the mainstream, Hoffa and his bunch will focus their energy to creating a much larger union membership base. Not only the express (which will be a tough nut to crack) but ground, home and freight. UPS will take a supporting role for them to unionize FedEx. Many other unions will try to butt in, but the teamsters will win out.

But they also know that when FedEx is unionized, the teamsters will also give a lot during the negotiations in 2013 and beyond for the support of UPS during this time.

We have met FedEx on an un-level playing field and not only held our own, but made a huge profit during which time FedEx had had huge losses. Why would we need to level the playing field when we are cleaning their plow now? Yeah, Ive heard all the "strike" threats they have used. But after a while, crying wolf gets you what?

Its because of give backs and concessions from the teamsters, both now and in the future. Worth billions long term, dollars that are saved because the teamsters owes UPS.

So its not "just so where they are union employees, and now presto, we have a level playing field." UPS is not interested in leveling the playing field. They want, and will get, a distinct advantage once they have been removed from the RLA. And FEDEX being unionized is just a small portion of that picture.

The upside? Could be that our retirement plans come out of the red with the new influx of union members.

But that will be short lived. There are too few trees to pick from these days.


d

Thanks for your views.

While I admit that the scenario you portray is plausible, I guess I am not enough of a Machiavellian thinker to believe it's likely. Or maybe I'm just naive. Perhaps I am just hoping that in the 21st century a company can conduct business ethically and still remain profitable, without plowing under the employees who make it possible.

I do not disagree with your assessment of the Teamsters' greed, nor that of UPS. I do question whether the quid pro quo you suggest is the most likely outcome.

In 1997, UPS and the Teamsters stuck a knife into small business. A lot of blood was let. Most of the wounds healed. Some didn't. It is small business that drives this economy.

I would say that's true.

 

[dannyboy]

It is interesting how politics makes strange bedfellows of groups that usually take opposite stands on issues.

For both the teamsters and UPS, they each have a vested interest in the above. And the cost to each in very minimal.

Like I said in another post, UPS teamsters are like the wife of 30 years to a husband that is interested in procuring multiple 20 somethings.

Yeah honey, Im going to work, what time will you get off? Really, they have asked you to work a bunch of overtime? Well, Ill just spend some time with the "boys".

Tell me how they would benefit by rocking the boat with UPS when they need UPS right now. It is a win win for them both, with us left holding the bill.

As for Whiskey's post, he is 100% right on. There were thousands of businesses that went under because of that strike. UPS suffered as well, as many moved on (also one of the reasons that I have been posting on the subject of taking care of the small customer), and many more have become very anti union. Our public persona really took a hit.

Seems like I remember that strike was over part time wages............

d

 

[brownmonster]

I would like a list of the "thousands of businesses" that went out because of a 2 1/2 week strike. If you can't weather 2 1/2 weeks you shouldn't be in business.

 

[dannyboy]

When you depend on UPS to be the lifeblood of your business, It hurts. I know just in my town of 50,000 there were a dozen that had to shut their doors.

Tell you what, you do without a paycheck for a month, with all the expenses going out, but nothing coming in, and see how you weather the storm.

Maybe some were on the edge, kinda like some of our drivers that have to have 10 hours a day just to make ends meet. But some were not. And once they could not supply their customers needs, their customer went elsewhere.

While some UPS'ers like Mike view a customer as lazy inconveniences, those of us that understand what a customer really means to our business treasure every one. And to loose a bunch while those greedy UPSers are on strike to get more money.....

d

 

[klein]

Tell you what, you do without a paycheck for a month, with all the expenses going out, but nothing coming in, and see how you weather the storm.


d

Tell you what : Into my 3rd month without a paycheck now.
Last day worked May29th, last payday : June 5th.

 

[dannyboy]

Klein

You are also not running a business, with a payroll, advertizing, employment taxes and the list goes on and on.

Besides, you posted you have all this money to venture to florida on, and all this other stuff you posted.

Also, you shot yourself in the foot when it comes to getting money coming in. You dont have anyone to blame but yourself. Now, try someone else causing you to loose what you have accomplished ans worked so hard to build.

d

 

[klein]

Klein

You are also not running a business, with a payroll, advertizing, employment taxes and the list goes on and on.

Besides, you posted you have all this money to venture to florida on, and all this other stuff you posted.

Also, you shot yourself in the foot when it comes to getting money coming in. You dont have anyone to blame but yourself. Now, try someone else causing you to loose what you have accomplished ans worked so hard to build.

d

Okay Danny, I posted to hasty... I do get your point. Nothing to compare with mine.
Mine was self-inflicted.
And I do get by. I prepared myself for a bad time like this. And , I have the benifit of choosing the job of the week (on jobsites), the ones I actually wanna do and will have fun doing.

I'm sorry, I opoligize.
Just for your knowledge though. Canada Post deals with Fedex here.
(guess Salesguy couldn't give them a better deal, or he was here online) LOL

 

[dannyboy]

No reason to be sorry.

Everybody thinks I am making a killing now that I own my own business. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Per hour worked, I make less than anybody that works here. And when there is not enough money to make the payroll, I am the first that does not get paid.

In two weeks, with a booming business, you can dig a hole so fast, it would take you years to climb back out of. Sometimes you can never do it.

My brother was one. Everything hit at once, paid 150 grand to ship out a new catalog. Within two weeks, he had everyone but himself on layoff, and he was working for free. Tried to keep the business running for another 5 weeks, and had to declare bankruptcy. His was not all on the UPS strike, but it was what pushed him over the top.

The year before, his net profits on the business was 200 grand plus. Didnt lay back for that rainy day.......

d

 

[klein]

No reason to be sorry.

Everybody thinks I am making a killing now that I own my own business. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Per hour worked, I make less than anybody that works here. And when there is not enough money to make the payroll, I am the first that does not get paid.

In two weeks, with a booming business, you can dig a hole so fast, it would take you years to climb back out of. Sometimes you can never do it.

My brother was one. Everything hit at once, paid 150 grand to ship out a new catalog. Within two weeks, he had everyone but himself on layoff, and he was working for free. Tried to keep the business running for another 5 weeks, and had to declare bankruptcy. His was not all on the UPS strike, but it was what pushed him over the top.

The year before, his net profits on the business was 200 grand plus. Didnt lay back for that rainy day.......

d

I hear ya !
Had a business with my brother actually (the reason I moved from Calgary to Edmonton).
We couldn't withdraw paychecks.
After 2 years we sold it with a loss, actually I lost my whole investment, while my brother walked away with my money (but, I didn't care). Was gonna take him to court actually.. but calmed down, and knowing he didn't even have a job, I didn't care that he kept it.
But, even that didn't last him long, a yr later he committed suicide.

So, trust me, I been there.
It's good you have that safety net, being retired.
You'll still have income no matter what.
But, it's scary to go into business for yourself. Your not covered by anything. Lost 2 years of Canada Pension, (I guess no big deal).
But also worked for free for 2 years..and lost a big lumpsum on top of that. That hurt the most. Working for free, sucks big time.

 

[dilligaf]

Klein

You are also not running a business, with a payroll, advertizing, employment taxes and the list goes on and on.

Besides, you posted you have all this money to venture to florida on, and all this other stuff you posted.

Also, you shot yourself in the foot when it comes to getting money coming in. You dont have anyone to blame but yourself. Now, try someone else causing you to loose what you have accomplished ans worked so hard to build.

d

I was wondering who was going to bring this up first?