West PA supplement....VOTE NO AGAIN!

[FromBluetoBrown]

The real question here BluetoBrown, is:

"Why if this post was directed at members in his locals jurisdiction are you chiming in with a post for no apparent reason."

Indeed, his problems are not your problems. Stay out of their business, they had the balls to shoot it down, they can deal with forcing their locals to negotiate what is in "their" best interests.

Worry about yourself and your own locals efforts.

Your yes vote was already counted, so mind your own business.

Peace.

Actually I voted no but I am curious how you came to the conclusion that I was a "yes voter" was it because I challenged your post? So by your definition anybody who disagrees with you is automatically a "yes voter" And to answer your other question about me chiming in I was merely stating the fact that we already had a bunch of "Vote no" threads and it seemed redundant to have another one. So I've said my piece feel free to take a few more stabs at me unless you are too busy with your angry masturbation to do so.

Oh and for future reference next time you want to leave me some negative reputation make sure you have some of your own to give out.

 

[Damok]

Actually I voted no but I am curious how you came to the conclusion that I was a "yes voter" was it because I challenged your post? So by your definition anybody who disagrees with you is automatically a "yes voter" And to answer your other question about me chiming in I was merely stating the fact that we already had a bunch of "Vote no" threads and it seemed redundant to have another one. So I've said my piece feel free to take a few more stabs at me unless you are too busy with your angry masturbation to do so.

Oh and for future reference next time you want to leave me some negative reputation make sure you have some of your own to give out.

Welcome to the tiny little world of BrownShark's mind where wild assumptions and assertions abound. I hope he at least throws you an apology in a PM Blue.

 

[badsporh]

I love it. He posts his bs on a public forum then you tell blue to stay out of it if he disagrees with any part of the post? You can't come here and post and censor the responses. That is asinine. I've already proven the guy does not even know the issues involved with his supplement. Yet he is on this site trying to tell all his members to vote no again. If anything you should be admonshing badsporh for not knowing the issues.

You have only proven that you are a dipsshhiitt. I stated my reasons for voting NO, and anybody can read back over my posts and see that. As they are perusing those posts they will also see that you are either unable to read OR you are a liar. Maybe both! I think you are probably able to read on something like a 3rd grade level and able to lie on something equivelant to a Center Managers level. Hey folks, vote no, and vote no, AND vote no on this supplement! If for no other reason than it really seems to stick in Cryguy's craw! LOL

 

[FromBluetoBrown]

I just realized Brown Shark wasn't the one that gave me negative rep so for that I am sorry.

 

[nwpa]

The hold up i heard has to do with senority. Bid routes and vacations according to your first senority date.

 

[badsporh]

The hold up i heard has to do with senority. Bid routes and vacations according to your first senority date.

Yes, this is the BIG issue in local 30, and another valid reason to vote NO on this supplement.

 

[tieguy]

Yes, this is the BIG issue in local 30, and another valid reason to vote NO on this supplement.

my point again. I and another poster asked you what the issues were and instead of telling us that you went off on various rants.

 

[mattwtrs]

The hold up i heard has to do with senority. Bid routes and vacations according to your first senority date.

Why does Local 30 think Bids & vacation should be by part time seniority date??

 

[badsporh]

The hold up i heard has to do with senority. Bid routes and vacations according to your first senority date.

Why does Local 30 think Bids & vacation should be by part time seniority date??

They're tired of "vacation replacement" or "seasonal" drivers getting promoted to full time and picking vacations and bidding routes ahead of employees that have been with the company for years.

 

[SimpleUPSer]

Badsporh,
Are the operations in your geographical area smaller in size? I can see where that would impact the P/T folks as far as seniority and vacations.

Do some of these part-timers not want to go to full-time or is there a different variable I am missing.

Just trying to understand. Thanks.

 

[badsporh]

Badsporh,
Are the operations in your geographical area smaller in size? I can see where that would impact the P/T folks as far as seniority and vacations.

Do some of these part-timers not want to go to full-time or is there a different variable I am missing.

Just trying to understand. Thanks.

It's like this:
*A part timer (let's call him Jimmy) decides he's going to make him self available to drive because there is a need in his center.
*Over the next 3 to 6 years Jimmy drives more and more, maybe even everyday, but is still considered part-time because no full-time position has opened up yet for him to be promoted to. On the days that there is no driving work available Jimmy does his part-time job.
*A full time position finally opens up, and instead of giving it to Jimmy who has been waiting, the position is givin to a "Vacation Replacement" driver (lets call him Tieguy) who maybe has only been working for UPS for 2 years.
*Maybe 6 months later another full-time position opens up and this one is now givin to Jimmy, who has been with UPS for maybe 10 years.
*This puts Jimmy on the senority list right behind Tieguy
*Now, for the rest of Jimmy's career at UPS he will be picking vacations and routes after Tiegay, who has about 8 years less senority with UPS.
*Local 30 wants UPS to use Jimmy's seniority date from when he was hired, not when he made full time, to determine where he picks on the vacation, and bidding routes list.

 

[Mystakilla]

You got it right badsporh about the senority issue with local 30, I cannot imagine why in the world it has always been this way and how it has come to be that way, it had to start somewhere. Also, what about the other locals out there, how is their senority?? cus according to the national contract that we work under right now it is stated that we get a 'new' senority date when going to fulltime status, i have never seen any other company run like that.

The day you are hired, IS and always should be your hire date, whether or not you are part time OR full time.

 

[ups79]

You got it right badsporh about the senority issue with local 30, I cannot imagine why in the world it has always been this way and how it has come to be that way, it had to start somewhere. Also, what about the other locals out there, how is their senority?? cus according to the national contract that we work under right now it is stated that we get a 'new' senority date when going to fulltime status, i have never seen any other company run like that.

The day you are hired, IS and always should be your hire date, whether or not you are part time OR full time.

So, you think a part-time person who goes fulltime after 10 years, should pick vacations before a fulltime driver who has been there for nine years and 364 days?

 

[Fredless]

So, you think a part-time person who goes fulltime after 10 years, should pick vacations before a fulltime driver who has been there for nine years and 364 days?

DAMN right. As a side example, hopefully the part timers in the southern region will wake up and start caring instead of complaining about the full time selection process.

That would eliminate the bullcrap that happens with the 22.3 job selections in the southern region. Until then, the full timers will run everything and watch as the part timers continue to hang ourselves.

 

[BrownShark]

It's like this:
*A part timer (let's call him Jimmy) decides he's going to make him self available to drive because there is a need in his center.
*Over the next 3 to 6 years Jimmy drives more and more, maybe even everyday, but is still considered part-time because no full-time position has opened up yet for him to be promoted to. On the days that there is no driving work available Jimmy does his part-time job.
*A full time position finally opens up, and instead of giving it to Jimmy who has been waiting, the position is givin to a "Vacation Replacement" driver (lets call him Tieguy) who maybe has only been working for UPS for 2 years.
*Maybe 6 months later another full-time position opens up and this one is now givin to Jimmy, who has been with UPS for maybe 10 years.
*This puts Jimmy on the senority list right behind Tieguy
*Now, for the rest of Jimmy's career at UPS he will be picking vacations and routes after Tiegay, who has about 8 years less senority with UPS.
*Local 30 wants UPS to use Jimmy's seniority date from when he was hired, not when he made full time, to determine where he picks on the vacation, and bidding routes list.

While I am impressed with the useage of a driver named TIEGAY, your premise is wrong.

In my local, ALL PART TIMERS when promoted to FULL TIME, are given HALF TIME towards senority. However, once promoted into a center, its CENTER SENORITY that is the RULE not the option.

For example, a part timer with 10 years time/senority, will be adjusted to 5 full time years once promoted.

This employee will fall into the senority loop at the END of the list in the center assigned.

While I am not trying to argue with you, I just want to illustrate how the system is set up.

At no time will the Teamsters allow part time employees to "jump the line" in front of senority full time drivers for any reason, regardless of start dates.

Just remember that CENTER SENORITY will always prevail.

Off the street hires will always have senority over any cover or part time driver hired AFTER the off the street was hired permanetly.

The issue should be the ELIMINATION of seasonal cover drivers, a practice we ended here in 396 in 1997. This work should go to ALL PART TIME employees eligible to drive. This should be the argument.

These are just the facts.

Peace.

 

[happybob]

I applaud your decisions to stand up for what you believe is the right way to handle this. I do differ with you over dates of seniority, and maybe because in my area, NNE, we have different rules. In our area when a part timer goes full time he has a new full time seniority date, but gets full credit for time with the company for his vacation picks. We don't have temp drivers, except the vacation covers, and seasonal workers. The company must still fill all full time openings on a 4(or 5, can't remember) to 1 ratio. The parttimers, in many instances knew these rules from the time they were hired, and choose to stay part time when various full time jobs opened, for whatever reason these chose to do so and stay part time. Things in thier lives change and then they decide to go full time. Useing your choice they now get to jump ahead of full timers that have worked longer in a full time posisiton, that would be where we disagree.

The great thing about this debate, is the choice to change the language you want changed is a right afforded to us under the contract bargaining process, and I do applaud your decision to fight for what you think should be done in your area. The members will get to make their choices known, either by rejecting, again, what you have already rejected before as being inadequit, or accepting the newest proposals..

Noone in another part of the country gets do decide what is in your areas best interests. Good luck with your upcoming vote, and I will congratulate all the members in your area for keeping after the union to get whats in your best interests put into the contract.

 

[FAVREFAN]

The more I read about issues in other parts of the country, the more I realize how nothing is the same from state to state regarging anything. In my local, I have seen 25 year part-time employees bumped from their jobs by 22.3's who had 6-7 tears part-time and just became full-time. The part-timers were moved to a less desirable job. In my local, 22.3's have seniority on all fronts over part-timers no matter how many years either have. Full-time over part-time, no matter what. This was upheld by the union and is standard practice. Great way to treat long term employees!

 

[Mystakilla]

So, you think a part-time person who goes fulltime after 10 years, should pick vacations before a fulltime driver who has been there for nine years and 364 days?

Yes sir. Seniority is seniority!

And a reply to happybob,

In our region it is 6:1 ratio, and as far as what you said about "parttimers knew these rules from the time they were hired and chose to stay part time.....", i would have to disagree with you in that aspect, i was part time for 13 yrs UNTIL i was even given an oppurtunity to become fulltime.
When i was hired, if i was given a choice if i wanted to be parttime or fulltime i would have taken fulltime right off the bat but back in the day i knew everyone had to work their way up in this company, except for the few that are hired off the street, i still stand by my orignal hire date as my seniority, thats how it should be and should have always been, as for the people hired off the street, im sorry BUT, the hire ratio should be done with, we shouldnt even have it and no one should be hired off the street straight into a fulltime job.
I do congratulate them on getting a fulltime job without putting the hardwork in as most of us did but i dont feel its right and thats just my opinion AND i do realize it is different in other regions, maybe it works well in other places but in NEWPA it just doesnt work. I dont know the exact figure but there has been approx. 50 atleast, part timers that have come from the inside to fulltime jobs (feeders) in the last 2-3 yrs. Before that there was never NO openings, now whether it be cause of the older guys are going to be retiring or the volume increased or whatever i do not know BUT i do know the highest guy of this last batch that came out probably has 17 yrs in parttime, and no as i said above its not that they turned it down, we were never offered the opportunity to come out.
So as an EXAMPLE, the guy with 17 years parttime has a "NEW" seniority date of lets say Jan 1, 06, when he had his training school i am sure the company utilized their 6:1 ratio and hired a guy off the street which in turn would also give the guy off the street a seniority date of Jan 1, 06. Now the next class comes out and a guy with 16 1/2 - 17yrs parttime is below seniority then the guy off the street which means he will pick his vacations before him and also bid routes before him, now can you seriously sit down and honestly think that this is right?
Im being serious about this issue and do not want any wise comments, obviously if you feel you need to make a wise crack then you do not understand the situation that i just explained to you.

 

[happybob]

The issue is just as serious to us full time employees as it is to you part time employees. I don't believe in wise crack, at least not when dealing with serious issues. This issue was brought up back before the company was allowed to have part timers. Before my time, and probably yours. The work currently being performed by part time members was once that of full timers. The company cried poor mouth and asked to employ part time employees in order to save money. The members spoke on this issue, those that were with the company at that time, and said they would not want to see part time employees going full time and having a right to bump them off thier jobs, hense the way its been since then. Many part time employees choose to stay part time, for what ever reason, loss of opportunity to full time slots, don't want the hours, etc., etc. Your reasoning would have a 16 year part time employees, that work 3 maybe 4 hours per day, have the right when they go full time to bump a 15year, 11 month full time employee off his bid route, even though he has put in twice, to three times as many hours of work compared to that part time employee. The part time employee, based on his start time does get to pick his vacations, without having worked the same amount of time as the full time employee. Your 20 years employment gets you just as many vacation weeks as the full timer that put in much more work hours than you have. The fairnes issue you raise can be debated many ways. This issue was setled, before I started, before you started, by the voting members present when it was decided. These folks decided what was in the best interests of the full time employee, that gave away thier work to part time employees hired after they started. Is the system in place fair, at least in the eyes of all employees? No, and never will be. But, it is a system I, and most other full timers, agree with.

Again, I am very glad the opportunity to address this issue is part of the contract process, and the majority will decide.

 

[Damok]

To me, as a part timer, it seems fairly straightforward. My work day is less than a full timers work day. If I am a PTer for 15 years I have, for all intents and purposes, worked less than a FTer during those same 15 years. I don't have the same seniority... I'm not crazy about tacking time on to my UPS tenure when I go FT but it certainly seems reasonable that a certain conversion should be done to equate my actual time worked to that of a comparable full time employees actual time worked.