West PA supplement....VOTE NO AGAIN!

[happybob]

To me, as a part timer, it seems fairly straightforward. My work day is less than a full timers work day. If I am a PTer for 15 years I have, for all intents and purposes, worked less than a FTer during those same 15 years. I don't have the same seniority... I'm not crazy about tacking time on to my UPS tenure when I go FT but it certainly seems reasonable that a certain conversion should be done to equate my actual time worked to that of a comparable full time employees actual time worked.

I'm not sure how this can be equated. Most full time drivers, etc., work more than just 40 hours per week. Most part time employees don't ever come close to these hours worked. If the company and union can come to terms on some way to justify your hours worked to the full time hours worked then maybe I could support that. It wont be easy, but I, and I'm sure many other full timers would be willing to listen.

 

[Damok]

I'm not sure how this can be equated. Most full time drivers, etc., work more than just 40 hours per week. Most part time employees don't ever come close to these hours worked. If the company and union can come to terms on some way to justify your hours worked to the full time hours worked then maybe I could support that. It wont be easy, but I, and I'm sure many other full timers would be willing to listen.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying they are equal- there is already an equation to convert PT seniority to FT seniority. I was commenting that I don't believe seniority is seniority is seniority. A PTer who works 4 hours a day should not have the same seniority as a FTer who works 9. I meant to put a quote in my other post to reference but I had a senior moment and didn't

 

[govols019]

In my opinion, your original start date with the company is the only date that should count.

If you're gonna use hours worked as your argument against that then I should be ahead of 4 people on our seniority list. I was a part-time cover driver for about 7 1/2 years. During that time 4 people went full time ahead of me that had never even sat in a package car. If nothing tragic happens to me, they'll never have the hours with UPS that I will.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

I love it. He posts his bs on a public forum then you tell blue to stay out of it if he disagrees with any part of the post? You can't come here and post and censor the responses. That is asinine. I've already proven the guy does not even know the issues involved with his supplement. Yet he is on this site trying to tell all his members to vote no again. If anything you should be admonshing badsporh for not knowing the issues.

You're doing the same exact thing by telling him to" be quiet and leave like the rest of the one-issue posters."


Why can't you mind your own business and let someone make themselves look bad instead when needed instaed of making yourself look bad?

Quit trying to moderate/admin without the authority, please. It's annoying and unnecessary. Go away.

 

[Mystakilla]

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying they are equal- there is already an equation to convert PT seniority to FT seniority. I was commenting that I don't believe seniority is seniority is seniority. A PTer who works 4 hours a day should not have the same seniority as a FTer who works 9. I meant to put a quote in my other post to reference but I had a senior moment and didn't

I appreciate your replies happybob and yours also damok, however when you state that you dont believe seniority is seniority because a parttimer doesnt put the time in as a fulltimer, it shouldnt have anything to do with hours worked. If a guy who has 10 years fulltime status goes on military leave for 5 years and comes back, your saying his seniority shouldnt count since he didnt put the hours in?

I really do appreciate the information on what you stated on how it was back in the day when there never was any parttimers, first i heard that and was wondering where it originated from, however, times change, companies change, as with ups, if they dont keep up with technology and make adjustments they are going to falter.

I was parttime for 13 years and yes only worked 4 hours a day which in turn is 20 hours per week (thus "part time"), a fulltimer works double that if not more (usually the latter), however, you can only count the 40 as an average, OT should never be counted on, point im making, during those 13 years, I and many others pay union dues, which were not "part time" union dues, so even though a fulltimer is putting in more hours worked, they are in turn paying the same union dues as everyone else.

It is a serious issue and i really didnt think it was going to be that big of a deal to make adjustments. After reading and thinking about what you said, i WOULD be willing to agree with some type of conversion, such as 1/2 of your time. 10 years parttime would equal 5 yrs fulltime and thus making your seniority date stand at 5 yrs after your original seniority date. Although im just specualting but it would be nice to see something done about this issue.

 

[ogrelord]

a fairs day work, for a fair days pay. it never says anything about time worked per day. i do understand that drivers put in more time, then the pter's. it was there choice to work those hours, and they get paid alot more to do those jobs. as it stands now most Upsers don't have a choice as to be PT, or full time. your senority is you senority date. it's just another wedge UPS uses to pit full-timers againt part timers

 

[happybob]

Maybe your area supplemental committee will find a way to make the changes all the members agree on in that supplements area. The 40 hours to twenty hours can't be the way to figuere. If you say full time is only 40 hours, and parttime is 20 hours, I disagree. The parttimer guarantee is 3.5 not 4. In my Local, parttimers do pay less dues than fulltimers. It's based on the average wage of all parttimers, and the same for fulltimers. I've always had a problem with the parttimers having to pay such a high rate. Instead of averageing the hourly wage for all parttimers, ewach individual should pay his dues based on his/her hourly rate. I've tried to have this addressed at our local, but the union wont stand for such a large decrease in the amount they take in every month, so naturally they stack the union hall with non-upsers when the vote comes up to change the formula.

But, back to the seniority issue. I can only say that I do support the current way of doing things in my area. I respect the mebers that came before me, and will always strive to understand the reasoning behind thier thinking of how things whould best be handled then and going forward. Fulltimers have thier seniority dates for full time work performed, and parttimers have thier seniority date for the work they have performed. When that part time employee starts doing the same work I perform then that should be thier new seniroity date. Time of service should always be considered in the amount of vacation you get to take.

What will work in your area will have to be put to a vote of all the members, and in the end, I would hope, be respected by the minority.

 

[badsporh]

Got my ballot today. This is a historic moment in West PA and I hope EVERYONE that got a ballot this week realizes it. A NO vote here gives us the power and will make the company and the union take notice. A NO vote will make them both become VERY interested in our concerns. Don't cast your ballot out of fear of going on strike, it's NOT going to happen. UPS has too much to lose. Are negotiating commitee was not commited to addressing our needs, so it's up to US to get our needs addressed. Everybody can go ahead and keep telling us why we can't do this, LET'S SHOW THEM WHY WE CAN!

 

[Mystakilla]

Yes i agree it is the only way they are going to listen and my ballot was mailed in last week already. I just hope everyone receives their ballot this time!! many i know who didnt even get one, they tried to push it to vote way to soon.

 

[Brown Dog]

Mystakilla, I understand your point of view. I worked 7 years p/t before going friend/t 19 years ago. All my p/t years do NOT count towards my 25 and out pension in 6 years. I dont think that's fair. I think 3.5 years of credit for those 7 yrs p/t Isn't unreasonable but I doubt that it will ever happen. There were about 5 drivers hired off the street before I went friend/t and they all picked their vacations before me and will have the opportunity to retire before me. I don't look forward to being a pkg driver after turning 55 but that's the way it's going to have to be. This job is not for senior citizens. Good Luck to you on this topic and the contract

 

[Damok]

Mystakilla, I understand your point of view. I worked 7 years p/t before going friend/t 19 years ago. All my p/t years do NOT count towards my 25 and out pension in 6 years. I dont think that's fair. I think 3.5 years of credit for those 7 yrs p/t Isn't unreasonable but I doubt that it will ever happen. There were about 5 drivers hired off the street before I went friend/t and they all picked their vacations before me and will have the opportunity to retire before me. I don't look forward to being a pkg driver after turning 55 but that's the way it's going to have to be. This job is not for senior citizens. Good Luck to you on this topic and the contract

How much of your PT years did you end up getting?