What is L.P. thinking?

[dannyboy]

I believe this is what may have been ruled, but that does not make him INNOCENT

nope, you are right. it makes him guilty. thats why they brought him back to work

i am not dealing with emotion and tears as you so eloquently suggest. i am taking the cold hard facts as they have been presented here, and drawn my conclusions from them

There is "innocent until proven guilty" language in our NMA, and maybe the company just did not have enough to convince the panel that the termination met this standard.

yup, that pesky little part of our rights under the constitution. innocent until proven guilty. problem is, you seem to think the other way around. he is guilty of theft, without any proof to back it up. the company had the time to process all the information it had, it could have, if they felt it important enough, to have the state authorities investigate further if their abilities were not sufficient.

but they did not. so either the proof into the charge of theft by this employee did not exist, or they were too damn lazy to uncover it. my guess is the first.

so, under the constitution and the contract, the company failed to prove its charges to a reasonable degree of certainty, therefore they had to let him go back to work. which is the way it should be. you are Innocent until it is proven you are guilty.

kinda funny, so many of the ones that would argue about the guilt of this guy, and how he should be in jail are the same ones that would argue that the guys in gitmo are just innocents on their way to get married or out with the guys on a family vacation.

you are forgetting the simple concept of due process. and until his day in court, he is Innocent until proven guilty of felony theft. that is also why we have the executions after the trials instead of before them.

now, if you are bent on making examples of a industry that would impact theft, lets arrest every one that owns or works at a pawn shop, flea market, used goods stores, ebay, etc. without the mass ability to turn goods into cash, theives would not steal, right? so regardless of guilt or inocence, but to make a statement, lets just take them all to jail without a trial or hearing because they are all guilty.

yes, that does make a lot of sense.

d

 

[705red]

Tos you are all over the place! Please reread the entire thread and gather the correct information and than repost. Im not going to hold you hand and walk you trough it when its already spelled out for you.

 

[Catatonic]

Tos you are all over the place! Please reread the entire thread and gather the correct information and than repost. Im not going to hold you hand and walk you trough it when its already spelled out for you.

I had a strong feeling as I had been reading all his political posts over the last two months that his rambling, unfocused discourses were a pattern that would not be confined to politics.

 

[dannyboy]

i have a brother that is a die hard liberal democrat.

he is much like t in that he takes a stand, then develops the basis for his stand (regardless how stupid or crazy) from what he thinks is the truth and fact. very interesting the concepts he thinks he knows as fact, but the spin he puts on them is totally off base.

at least t has some time to actually do some research or at the very least takes the time to look up terminology.

as for my brother, hes just plain stupid.

d

 

[pemanager]

Well today was his court date and after spending 15 minutes at court the case was continued to dec 3rd. Nothing really happened at all, just some legal mumbo jumbo so until dec,3rd.

Red,

Any updates??

 

[MonavieLeaker]

Red,

Any updates??

 

[brownIEman]

Red,

Any updates??

bump.

???

 

[atatbl]

again

 

[Holly]

Folks wake up and smell the coffee! I am no expert by I do have friends who are in Law Enforcement.

First of all from reading the board you do not have all the facts on this case nor do you have knowledge on the background of this case. They may have informant information they have been working on as well as video surveillance and other facts that LP is not going to give you the information on because it is none of your business!

The accused will never tell you the truth, it's always woe's me! When someone is caught out they are always going to protect themselves from any type of punishment- loss of a employment, loss of wages, criminal record, court cost, and punishment as a result of their actions.

Mean while his hand was caught in the cookie jar! Do you really think that the Police Officer that attended and his Superiors would actually proceed with a criminal charge if there was not a lot of evidence to support this matter? To file a criminal case the officer has to go through a lot of paperwork and he has to explain his actions as well as the evidence to a lot of people, including other officers, lawyers and the judge. No-one is going to proceed with a charge unless there is sufficient evidence.

Unless you know the background, and the history of the case presented to you by LP or the Police you will not know what the facts are that brought them to the conclusion of pressing charges. Don't forget the Police department as well as UPS has to justify their actions to the courts as there are more laws out there to protect the accused then the victim!


At UPS Canada – an employee can be taken out of Service by his Supervisor on the recommendation of LP. Before and employee is terminated the case has to be reviewed by LP’s Regional and District Manager, then through Labour Relations and Legal! Think that one through!

I have read in many of the comments that there is a Panel? Who are the Panel? What are the members function and powers?

I tell employees before they think about stealing anything from anyone or buying property that you believe is stolen you must think this through and not to do it on impulse.
If you get caught stealing or with stolen property, you have just lost five years of your life and gained five years of stress and embarrassment. LP is going to parade you in front of your colleagues, to make an example out of you. Think of the embarrassment and shame you face as you tell your loved ones you need their help because you no longer have a job because you got caught sealing or caught with stolen property or involved in a crime. You will now be facing criminal charges, you may spend the next two to three years going through the criminal court process. That $200.00 phone you just stole and got caught with is now going to cost you anywhere between $10, 000 to $30 000 thousand dollars in lawyer and legal cost. So say good bye to any vacations you have planned not only for the loss income and money you are forking out for your defence, but because in some countries like the USA they will not let you pass the boarder with a criminal record. Then once your case goes before the courts for final sentencing, you may have another six-week to two years to complete your sentence through community service or time served. To boot you may have to pay a fine to top it off which you may not be able to pay because who is going to want to hire a thief!

 

[705red]

I am sorry for not responding as i did not notice pe and monavie's posts. There is a lot going on right now and as soon as everything has concluded i will be the first to describe all that has played out. Should be feburary 19th! Hang in its intereating!

 

[UPS Lifer]

When it comes to theft, stealing, or dishonesty, I have no tolerance especially if the facts and evidence support it. In a major hub environment, dealing with drugs and theft are a daily uphill battle for all who will not condone it.

I have listened to hundreds of stories most with tears and crying for me to give them another chance. I tell them "you have another chance to start your life over, every time you feel the urge to slide backward think of this day... but you no longer work at UPS"

I do not know the full circumstances, but based on the initial post - I feel that you get what you deserve. I am sorry but there is no way I believe that the receiver of stolen goods did not know what was going on! What better way to make your case of ignorance than by trying to register the phone for a property pass.

I could just hear the conversation....
"I did not know it was stolen! I would not have registered the phone if I knew!"
What a crock of crap!

Personally - I don't care how they (UPS or police) get the guy or what they charge him with as long as they get him. If the judicial system allows him to go free so be it. I personally think it will get to a plea bargain. .... if he does not plea bargain, it is because of his arrogance in his "Academy Award" performance not because he is innocent.

Sorry - I have seen way too much of this and when it comes to theft, I am very jaded and I lack tolerance in this area.


I had an employee give an "Academy Award" performance on how he did not steal a jersey. This guy was crying and everything. He was extremely believable.

Here is the catch, unaware to the thief another employee watched him sneak the jersey out of the box, put it under his shirt and go directly to a bathroom stall. The employee who observed followed him to the bathroom and then notified a supervisor. We brought the employee to the office and didn't let him out of our sight. The steward wanted to talk with him alone. It was the only time I said absolutely not! You can have a conversation with the thief but we need to keep him in sight. I told the steward what was going on.

The steward said that he would get the employee to resign and get the jersey back. I agreed and we allowed the steward privacy with the employee and it played out.

As far as 705 goes.... I also appreciate your concern and compassion for this person. Everyone is allowed a defense and I respect your stand.

You just don't want me on the jury! LOL!

I do know this... If it were my employee I would want to know what the reason was that UPS was taking it to trial. Because I really don't know what the reasoning is... I can't take a stand one way or the other whether it is right or wrong.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

really? here it is 299 with the two year signing plan.

have yet to see where they are free. care to send me some info on a blackberry for free?

then that also poses the second question. of you can get it for free, why would someone want to sell it for 300, and the guy pay 100?

d

Verizon has them.

 

[MonavieLeaker]

I am sorry for not responding as i did not notice pe and monavie's posts. There is a lot going on right now and as soon as everything has concluded i will be the first to describe all that has played out. Should be feburary 19th! Hang in its intereating!

Thanks for the update

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Folks wake up and smell the coffee! I am no expert by I do have friends who are in Law Enforcement.

First of all from reading the board you do not have all the facts on this case nor do you have knowledge on the background of this case. They may have informant information they have been working on as well as video surveillance and other facts that LP is not going to give you the information on because it is none of your business!

The accused will never tell you the truth, it's always woe's me! When someone is caught out they are always going to protect themselves from any type of punishment- loss of a employment, loss of wages, criminal record, court cost, and punishment as a result of their actions.

Mean while his hand was caught in the cookie jar! Do you really think that the Police Officer that attended and his Superiors would actually proceed with a criminal charge if there was not a lot of evidence to support this matter? To file a criminal case the officer has to go through a lot of paperwork and he has to explain his actions as well as the evidence to a lot of people, including other officers, lawyers and the judge. No-one is going to proceed with a charge unless there is sufficient evidence.

Unless you know the background, and the history of the case presented to you by LP or the Police you will not know what the facts are that brought them to the conclusion of pressing charges. Don't forget the Police department as well as UPS has to justify their actions to the courts as there are more laws out there to protect the accused then the victim!


At UPS Canada – an employee can be taken out of Service by his Supervisor on the recommendation of LP. Before and employee is terminated the case has to be reviewed by LP’s Regional and District Manager, then through Labour Relations and Legal! Think that one through!

I have read in many of the comments that there is a Panel? Who are the Panel? What are the members function and powers?

I tell employees before they think about stealing anything from anyone or buying property that you believe is stolen you must think this through and not to do it on impulse.
If you get caught stealing or with stolen property, you have just lost five years of your life and gained five years of stress and embarrassment. LP is going to parade you in front of your colleagues, to make an example out of you. Think of the embarrassment and shame you face as you tell your loved ones you need their help because you no longer have a job because you got caught sealing or caught with stolen property or involved in a crime. You will now be facing criminal charges, you may spend the next two to three years going through the criminal court process. That $200.00 phone you just stole and got caught with is now going to cost you anywhere between $10, 000 to $30 000 thousand dollars in lawyer and legal cost. So say good bye to any vacations you have planned not only for the loss income and money you are forking out for your defence, but because in some countries like the USA they will not let you pass the boarder with a criminal record. Then once your case goes before the courts for final sentencing, you may have another six-week to two years to complete your sentence through community service or time served. To boot you may have to pay a fine to top it off which you may not be able to pay because who is going to want to hire a thief!

You sure did have a lot to say in that first post. Welcome to the Brown Cafe.

 

[MonavieLeaker]

Folks wake up and smell the coffee! I am no expert by I do have friends who are in Law Enforcement.

First of all from reading the board you do not have all the facts on this case nor do you have knowledge on the background of this case. They may have informant information they have been working on as well as video surveillance and other facts that LP is not going to give you the information on because it is none of your business!

The accused will never tell you the truth, it's always woe's me! When someone is caught out they are always going to protect themselves from any type of punishment- loss of a employment, loss of wages, criminal record, court cost, and punishment as a result of their actions.

Mean while his hand was caught in the cookie jar! Do you really think that the Police Officer that attended and his Superiors would actually proceed with a criminal charge if there was not a lot of evidence to support this matter? To file a criminal case the officer has to go through a lot of paperwork and he has to explain his actions as well as the evidence to a lot of people, including other officers, lawyers and the judge. No-one is going to proceed with a charge unless there is sufficient evidence.

Unless you know the background, and the history of the case presented to you by LP or the Police you will not know what the facts are that brought them to the conclusion of pressing charges. Don't forget the Police department as well as UPS has to justify their actions to the courts as there are more laws out there to protect the accused then the victim!


At UPS Canada – an employee can be taken out of Service by his Supervisor on the recommendation of LP. Before and employee is terminated the case has to be reviewed by LP’s Regional and District Manager, then through Labour Relations and Legal! Think that one through!

I have read in many of the comments that there is a Panel? Who are the Panel? What are the members function and powers?

I tell employees before they think about stealing anything from anyone or buying property that you believe is stolen you must think this through and not to do it on impulse.
If you get caught stealing or with stolen property, you have just lost five years of your life and gained five years of stress and embarrassment. LP is going to parade you in front of your colleagues, to make an example out of you. Think of the embarrassment and shame you face as you tell your loved ones you need their help because you no longer have a job because you got caught sealing or caught with stolen property or involved in a crime. You will now be facing criminal charges, you may spend the next two to three years going through the criminal court process. That $200.00 phone you just stole and got caught with is now going to cost you anywhere between $10, 000 to $30 000 thousand dollars in lawyer and legal cost. So say good bye to any vacations you have planned not only for the loss income and money you are forking out for your defence, but because in some countries like the USA they will not let you pass the boarder with a criminal record. Then once your case goes before the courts for final sentencing, you may have another six-week to two years to complete your sentence through community service or time served. To boot you may have to pay a fine to top it off which you may not be able to pay because who is going to want to hire a thief!

 

[pemanager]

I am sorry for not responding as i did not notice pe and monavie's posts. There is a lot going on right now and as soon as everything has concluded i will be the first to describe all that has played out. Should be feburary 19th! Hang in its intereating!

Red,

The suspense is killing me!

 

[705red]

Continued to march! Hang in there!

 

[dilligaf]

.....and the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round

and the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round...............................















he he he he is the tune stuck in your head now!?!?!?!

 

[705red]

OK here we go! I have not wanted to post on this because management does read this and some of you are to dam good! You guys have helped management in some cases argue their side, so i choose to wait so i wasn't preparing a case against ups and my fellow cafer's.

Long story short. The grievant in this case was fired from his full time job because of attendance for having to take time off for court. On January 20th under the advice of his public defender he accepted a plea agreement and plead guilty and was put on probation.

On January 22nd he was again fired by ups for the same incident. He was scheduled for panel in February. The same day of his panel hearing he also had his first probation meeting, which he was late to. The p.o. had him arrested and incarcerated for a week for being late. He was unable to make it to panel or notify us.

We the union took a union hold on the case in February. Yesterday was panel and the grievant made it. Now remember we now having a sitting arbitrator to expediter the discipline cases. His case was heard and it was deadlocked by the panel. The company had made it clear that he was scheduled for panel last month and had not made so they were not responsible for his lost wages.

The arbitrator ruled that he would return to his next scheduled shift with no back pay.

Finally thie employee can now move on with his life and get this behind him.

You can not discipline an employee twice for the same incident! Its called double jeopardy!

This was the first termination case that i presented at panel, and i will take my hats off to any union agent that does do the right thing by the members! Preparing this case was time consuming with research and reading arbitration rulings and legal definitions, etc.

These guys earn every penny they make!

 

[dilligaf]

good job Red!