Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by phillly0588, Oct 3, 2007.


Will u vote yes or no on the new contract?

Poll closed Dec 2, 2007.
  1. yes

  2. no

  3. dont care

  1. phillly0588

    phillly0588 New Member

    The Economics of the Tentative Agreement

    Our International Union continues to keep a tight lid on facts about the tentative agreement.

    But Make UPS Deliver has obtained some information about the outlines of the economic package.

    The tentative deal provides for wage increases of $4 an hour over the life of the contract. Annual wage increases will be 70¢-75¢-75¢-85¢-95¢. A portion of each wage increase would be delayed six months, until February of the following year.

    Under the tentative deal, UPS would contribute $1 an hour more each year toward our benefits. This would be split between pension and health and welfare.

    The tentative deal includes concessions that would lengthen the wage progression to 36 months. This is the second contract in a row that Hoffa has given in to the company's demand to increase the progression by six months. If the agreement is approved, it would take a driver three years to get up to top pay.

    The new deal would also lengthen the probationary period to 60 days.

    Economic Gains Not as Big as 2002 Contract

    Chief negotiators James Hoffa and hall promised the “Richest Contract Ever” but the new tentative deal actually provides for smaller percentage gains than the 2002 “Best Contract Ever.”

    While the tentative agreement includes approximately $9 an hour in wage and benefit improvements compared to $8.75 over six years in 2002, this amounts to a smaller percentage increase than the current contract.
    • * The 2002 contract delivered wage and benefit increases of 27.57 percent over the length of the contract. In comparison, the current agreement provides for a total increase of just 22.22 percent.
    • * Over five years, the new tentative deal would average increases in wages and benefits of 4.4 percent per year. Over six years, the 2002 contract averaged higher wage and benefit increases of 4.6 percent per year.
    Contracts are compared by percentage, because a dollar in 2008 is not the same as a dollar in 2002.

    Under this proposed contract full-time wages would likely fall behind inflation. To keep pace with inflation of three percent a year, we would need to negotiate wage increases of 85¢, 87¢, 90¢, 92¢, and 95¢, or $4.49 over the life of the agreement—compared to the $4 actually negotiated.

    Tentative Agreement Would Put Money into Benefits

    As expected, the tentative agreement puts more money into pensions and healthcare than wages. Many members are greatly concerned about pensions and health care. But more than what is paid in, members want to know what benefit improvements will be coming.

    There are reports that in the Central States Area, retiree health care for 30-and-out retirees will be available for $200 per month ($400 to include spouse). However, we await detailed information in writing.

    Bend over boys! Looks like the teamsters got screwed again! 3 yr wage proggession for full time drivers, minimal raises w/the slap in the face 2 raises a year(cant even give ya 70 cents at one time). Wow a multibillion dollar company cant even give there hard working employees wages to keep up with inflation. What a joke. Nice jobb HOFFA!!!!!!!!!! SHi*ty contract!!!

    Great Job on helping out the part-timers too!
  2. doolittle95

    doolittle95 Member

    Wow, are the teamsters working for us or ups this time around?
    This is an easy NO!! vote, nothing to think about here. They have plenty of time to get a better deal for us.

    Memo to the negotiating comitee: u might want to get the wage increases to at least outpace inflation. additionally: it will help if you all grow a pair. sheesh.
  3. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    With all due respect Philly and to the source of your info, IMO it's very hard to say yeah or nay until we've heard from the horse's mouth as to the specifics of this contract proposal. I'm not very trusting of the union either and your dislike of Hoffa makes me assume our reasons for that distrust may be different from one another. Again, I'm assuming here so no disrespect for your reasons no matter where they stand are intended.

    Knowing the mess the pension and even medical benefits amongst CS's are in currently, I'm shocked at the raise amounts being proposed. Going in I thought a 25 cent raise per year would be lucky if they also cleaned up this pension and benefit mess.

    Taking what you printed as true and making an assumption here that the rumors of a return to the pension payouts and levels before the 2004' cuts will happen, I'm more than willing to meet UPS halfway and split the raise out so that part happens on 8/1 and the other part happens on 2/1.

    Now I just hope those stupid retirement work rules are gone and IMO UPS can keep the damn raise because the light at the end of the tunnel just got REAL CLOSE!


    BTW: IMO the one most hurt by the extended progression in the longrun is UPS. Who wants to hang around PT for 10 plus years hoping for a FT spot and then wait another 3 years to finally make the pay grade. Now add a starting PT wage of $8.50 an hour and that revolving door will swing less coming in and lot more going out especially if the pension returns to a true 30 and out.

    I suspect a lot of folks will start bolting for the door next year and the need to fill those FT holes will be become quite interesting to watch. I will say this for the folks already on the payroll. They should be grandfathered in to language at the time they were hired and then give full disclosure to all incoming new hires but that is JMO.

    This pension move is costly and it would have taken less to do it 10 years ago but instead we decided to strike and delay the inevitable. I guess like the Fram commerical sez, "you can pay me now or pay me later!"

    I guess we just decided to pay a lot more later!

    Had it not been for the new ERISA rules coming into play on Jan 1, 08, UPS would sit back and laugh as we stewed in the mess of our own making and I wouldn't blame them one bit for it either!


    I hope you'll repost this poll after Oct. 11th weekend as folks will have had time to attend contract meeting and get more details and all of us will be better informed..... well it's alledged that we'll be :laugh: and then voicing an opinion on this subject will be much easier to do IMO.
  4. beatupbrown

    beatupbrown Member

    It will pass and UPS will slowly dismantle the union to a paper tiger .
    Not so sure it is not one now.
    So they will be up to 3 pensions ?partime,multiemployer,singleemployer.
    Max you 401k out ,stop the over spending on your family budget good luck to all.:ohmy:
  5. spun

    spun New Member

    no no no
  6. leguligu

    leguligu New Member

    NO, NO, NO.....120% NO.:mad::mad::mad::mad:..This is the worse contract ever!!!!!!!!
  7. blue efficacy

    blue efficacy Active Member

    Easy no. Part timers get ****ed. I will vote NO on any contract that will not raise the starting pay. It will hurt the company too much if they don't, and new hires deserve more. I want to see new people stick around.
  8. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Its way to early to come to a conclusion on this deal. Yes tdu syas it less than the last contract, but the money is not horrible, and it looks like the pension should be better off. Until we see it all together as of oct 11th copies will be given to all of our locals, lets sit back and wait.

    I do believe this contract will pass, because if it is voted down there will not be enough time to re-negioate a new deal in order to beat the jan1st pension reform, just my opinion. If i was voting right now i would vote no, but lets look at all the new language.
  9. nhguy

    nhguy New Member

    I would encourage everyone to wait until you see everything. Just some food for thought, the 6.1 billion to buy out of the CS mess is one years profit to this company. If these raises are in fact true, consider yourselves lucky. I was truly expecting to see wages and or time off concession . 6.1 billion doesn't grow on trees.

    I still can't understand why anybody cares what the starting rate of pay is. If your already an employee, it doesn't affect you. People continue to forget that all those benefits cost UPS AN ADDITIONAL $14.00 PER HOUR. You can't have it both ways. If you all wanted the hourly pay rate to increase then maybe you should have asked the union to give the employees the option of no benefits and a higher wage.

    If what I hear is true, then given the situation, this ain't that bad.

    Remember the big fish always eats the little ones!
  10. MR_Vengeance

    MR_Vengeance United Parcel Survivor

    i'm thinking no, but need more details to decide.
  11. Cookie

    Cookie New Member

    So what's the catch with this agreement? I think if we hold out just a little we could get those raises with out the 6 month hitch attached. What do you think?
  12. brazenbrown

    brazenbrown New Member

    Anyone who votes before they have all the information is making an uninformed mistake!

    How could you vote before you know all the details??:crying:

    Wait till you're informed, don't let people persuade you with their propaganda.

    Your acting like this Philly character has some kind of credibility when this is his only post on Browncafe. He was probably sent here or came here soley to discredit the contract no matter how good or bad it really turns out to be.... you just don't know.

    Wake up and think for yourselves and quit acting like a bunch of lemmings taking a long walk off a short pier!!:thumbup1:
  13. xDELETEDx

    xDELETEDx New Member

    What happens when the existing employees bid up/retire/quit? Their replacements have to come from somewhere. It affects me very much because since I've started, I've seen about an 800% turnover rate. In fact, our seniority list hasn't been updated in a long time because no one has stuck around long enough to make seniority. Everyone has to do nearly twice the work we normally do since we quite literally have half the people we need. We're already getting slammed with volume much higher than normal, and we're severely understaffed, so when a newbie comes in, they get dumped into a very hectic situation and don't receive the training they should because all of our supervisors are working as well. Then they take home their $180 and decide that the Burger King down the road is a better idea since they're starting people at $9-$11 and provide a half-decent benefits package.
  14. BrownBrowser

    BrownBrowser New Member

    I must admit the waiting game has become frustrating, however I have to agree with the Senior Members of this site, it would be hard to make any sort of informed decision without all of the facts and details within the proposal.

    Being a Senior UPSer myself I feel that the Gag Order placed on this entire
    Contract has me feeling a little left in the Dark. I certainly would prefer to
    have all the results of the negotiations as soon as the Tentative Agreement
    was reached. The secrecy is uncalled for. We are the ones effected by all of
    their decisions thus we should be kept up to date on all of the results.

    However reality says something different. My question is Why ?
    What is the BIG Secret , sometimes I get the feeling it is so we will not have
    the opportunity nor the time to really study the New Deal and Vote before
    we truly understand and comprehend what we voted for. Thus resulting in
    a huge error or errors on our part.

    I do believe this contract will Pass, I just pray it's fair to all of us involved.
  15. Griff

    Griff Active Member

    Haven't seen all the details, but if I'm voting today based on the information leaked it's definitely a no.
  16. kasaroo

    kasaroo New Member

    My vote is : NO!! The split raises save UPS millions each year. The new drivers are screwed: 3 years to top pay?!? SIXTY day proby period before seniority?!? What they are suggesting as "improved" pension is a joke! All the money they used to give Central States to pay ALL Teamsters now just pays UPSers and all they do is restore the takeaways Central took in 2003?!? Do they think we are idiots? If this contract passes, UPS will be laughing all the way to the bank!
  17. 1989

    1989 Well-Known Member

    When I started driving, there was a 2 year progression. I was excited when I got my first full scale check. The center manager had no idea I had only been driving 2 years. I knew 30 or 40 routes at the time. Maybe progression should be based on the routes you do. A way to shorten the 36 months.
  18. dragracer66

    dragracer66 Active Member

    This thread is Bull$hit....All of you idiot's who are shooting your load early and saying no and it's the worse contract ever don't know what you are talking about!!! Most of you are probably going through your first contract so you have no clue. None of the information about the contract has been released yet. And the bozo who started this thread got this off some bogus site. I heard about and read about 4 different wage increases so nobody know's anything yet!!! Wait for the next couple of week's and see what it really is before you pass judgement!!!!
  19. Leftinbuilding

    Leftinbuilding Active Member

    Thank you, Dragracer. I thought the idiots had taken over. Sounds like a bunch of children.
  20. kasaroo

    kasaroo New Member

    Why the big secret? Why dont the Teamsters just put the contract on the web to dispell rumors? Why all the hush-hush?