$1 per hour taken away from most Employees in Mcallen, TX PM local sort

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by commando223, Mar 28, 2010.

  1. commando223

    commando223 New Member

    I work down here at the UPS center in Mcallen, TX local sort scanning, picking off the belt and sometimes loading into trailers. I've been working here for almost four years and received an extra dollar per hour for scanning because they said it was a skilled position to know the sort and scan after 30 days. So they recently took away that extra dollar per hour telling us it was a mistake and we were being overpaid. They said we can try to fight it with the union but if we lose they will go back and take 90 days of pay from those who do.I Contacted the union here and they said there is nothing we can do, just wondering if any other upsers at other centers are experiencing anything like this or have any advice.
  2. Scooter1

    Scooter1 New Member

    I have never heard of scanning being a skilled position. Sorting and picking off if it has more that 3 splits pays a dollar extra. All the loaders in my area scan packages.
  3. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    When you say you scan, do you mean you are a SPA scan-print-apply labelslapper, or a do you scan while loading a trailer?

    Strictly speaking there are no "skilled" or "unskilled" positions at UPS. Those words are not in the Contract. Article 22 says if you are a "Preloader" or "Sorter" you get the extra dollar; "All Others" don't. It's up to each location to define how many jobs fall under the definition of Preloader and Sorter.

    Also, some locations pay the extra dollar to additional people, and sometimes all people, if the location has a problem getting and keeping quality people.

    Some managers may also pay additional people the extra dollar out of the kindness of their heart, or because they feel guilty paying near minimum wages to people who only work 3.5 hours a day and don't get benefits for quite a while despite the expense of paying union dues and initiation fees.

    Article 22 clearly says the wage rates quoted are minimums, meaning it's ok for UPS to pay someone an extra dollar (or more) if they want to.

    In labor law there is the well established doctrine of Past Practice which says if a favorable situation has been going on for some time and both the Union and Company know about it, and it doesn't violate the Contract, the Company can't just take it away unilaterally. UPS must negotiate with the Union first otherwise they commit an Unfair Labor Practice. It may also be an ULP to threaten to recoupe back wages in retaliation if a grievance is filed.

    There is a "Maintainance of Standards" clause in my New England Supplement. Your Supplement might have one too. It says all working conditions, including wages, must be maintained at the high standard that existed at the time of the signing of the Contract.

    I seriously doubt the payment of the extra dollar was a "mistake." UPS is probably just changing their policy as they look for more and more ways to dismantle the Contract and harm the business.
    http://www.teamster.org/sites/teams...06 09 Final UPS Master Agreemnt 2008-2013.pdf

  4. dillweed

    dillweed Well-Known Member

    It's always been my understanding that, once you've been raised the dollar an hour, they cannot take it away. We've had folks in "premium pay" positions who returned to the unload with no decrease in wage.
  5. browndevil

    browndevil Active Member

    I would call the union again and ask them to clarify "skilled" and "unskilled". As far as your mgmt team saying they will take back 90 days pay, is not only a threat but an unfair business practice. Let us know how it all works out.
  6. fxdwg

    fxdwg Member

    The comment about "fight it with the union" tells me that this was probably a non-local (in that meaning it came from somewhere higher up; probably with a Job Assessment)
    My advice is to Grieve it but DO NOT let it get personal.
    It sucks, but maybe better things are ahead.
  7. 1000RR

    1000RR Member

    How big is your local sort? How many outbounds? How many pieces per night? How many employees on sort? I work the local sort, we do about 3500 a night. There is a position called scanning the belt here that consists of scanning all packages (except smalls). We have two outbounds. The person scanning the belt must pull all packages that go south and put them on a different trailer, while the north packages go up the belt into another trailer. However, we do not get the dollar increase that you speak of. The only two positions in my building that get the extra dollar are preloaders and the guy that sorts smalls on the local sort.
  8. 22.34life

    22.34life Active Member

    if you are just loading a truck and scanning packages thats not a skilled job.In texas you get a dollar raise for pickoff,sorter,charger,secondary sorter,irreg driver/sorter and i think thats it.I know that back in the day ups was giving away the dollar for cert. pickoff like crazy even if you didnt do the job you got it just for passing the test but here in the last severel years they have really shut this old habbit down.I know this much if all you do is scan and load you should have never had an extra dollar as for can they come and take it after x amount of time that i dont know.
  9. billFREAKINmurray

    billFREAKINmurray It's super effective!

    you lucky guys in TX man... here in nampa, ID our only skilled positions are working in the smalls sort and shifting trailers.:biting:

    UPSSOCKS Well-Known Member

    Yes!!!!!!! Take the dollars away!!!!!!!!! No one deserves it.......
  11. Dagoof

    Dagoof Member

    Does that include you also?
  12. Just Numbers

    Just Numbers Retired

    Please explain to me (logically) why Ups must negotiate with the union to take something away that was never negotiated with the union in the first place.
  13. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    I don't know the details of the specific case. Maybe the extra dollar was negotiated (formally or informally,) maybe the Supplement contains a Maintenance of Standards clause, or maybe it falls under Past Practice as a Mandatory Subject of Bargaining.

    I don't know if logic applies to UPS. But legally they are probably required to negotiate first, to avoid being spanked by a grievance panel or arbitrator for violating the Contract, and/or the NLRB for committing an Unfair Labor Practice.
  14. thelus

    thelus Package Car Whipping Boy

    first off you can try to file under past practice. that should be your first grevence to try to keep you at that pay. Now if you lose that they can only knock you back down to the minimum pay and i say minimum pay is becuase that is what it says under article 22 section 5 part c is "The wage rates and increases provided in (a) and (b) shall be a minimum" meaning if you are part time and they for some odd reason pay you $24 dollars an hour for a year they can. though if they bump you back down to minimum you don't owe them anything becuase there isn't a maximum. so if they try to take money back you have that to go back on. plus that idiot supervisor made a threat to you and as a man you should never let anyone threaten you. in fact do what i do start making fun of him to his face. tell him he smells and needs to take a bath. have a back bone go to a steward and file the grievances instead of complaining here because you wont get anywhere doing that.
  15. Just Numbers

    Just Numbers Retired

    Jon, Not interested in the dollar but I am interested in why UPS has to negotiate something that is not in the contract. That is as stupid and illogical as saying the if UPS wanted to move a water cooler from where it is located now to a position 10 ft away...they would have to negotiate the move. As to your statement "I don't know if logic applies to UPS" ...why not also mention the teamsters and the government.

    UPSSOCKS Well-Known Member

    UPS holds the power of the dollar, UPS can give it and also can take it away. In some cases the dollar can be taken away with a simple sort test.

    Paperwork is required to take the dollar. It can't be taken without just cause.... An example would be a disqualification.
  17. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Jon is speaking of our mainteneance of standards clause. If the employees were making that prior to the 08 contract the company cannot change it and lower the rate unless it has been negotiated.

    ARTICLE 50.
    All conditions of employment in the Employer's individual operation relating to wages, hours of work, over time, differentials and
    general working conditions shall be maintained at not less than the highest standards in effect at the time of the signing of this
    Agreement and the conditions of employment shall be improved wherever specific provisions for improvement are made elsewhere
    in this Agreement. (Errors found at any time ​
    [FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]shall [/FONT][/FONT]be corrected immediately and over or under payments [FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]shall [/FONT][/FONT]only be
    adjusted for 90 calendar days.) Any disagreement between the Union and the Employer with respect to this matter shall be subject to
    the Grievance Procedure (Article 7). This provision does not give the Employer the right to impose or continue wages, hours, and

    working conditions less than those contained in this Agreement.
  18. KingofBrown

    KingofBrown Member

    File a grievance for past practice. It's illogical; they can't take money out of you just because some clever supervisor wants more bonus checks. And file another grievance for harrassment or something of that nature becuase they threaten you to take more money off if you want to claim your rights with the union. In the past I would have thought you're just kidding us, but as things are going now for some sups, I do believe what you're talking about.And I believe you would make a great grievance with Article 50 that I've just read from "705red."
  19. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Depending on the details, unilaterally reducing wages in mid-contract may well be a contract violation or an Unfair Labor Practice because wages are a Mandatory Subject of Bargaining.

    The NLRB does not regard moving a water cooler as a Mandatory Subject of Bargaining. However contract Article 5 does require bottled water in areas where the water quality is poor, so be careful that moving a water cooler is not making the water inaccessible to the workers. (Like putting it inside a locked manager's office.)

    From the New England Supplement . . .
  20. Just Numbers

    Just Numbers Retired

    Won't be moving anything into a manager's office. I'm retired and a former teamster. Everything is open to interpretation. "general working conditions" how vague is that.