2 planes of air unable to land

[Boywondr]

Ours was Dubai you’re correct and it was lithium ion batteries that brought that one down(cargo fire). There’s a show “air disasters” on that one and it’s pretty sad too.

I heard it was a unsecured load as well.
Maybe the the fire caused it to lose the bracing apparatus.

 

[OrioN]

the load wasn’t properly secured and shifted.

Wow, I just finished looking at that topic... mebbe that's y I strap my cargo down like I treat every box as a hazmat; blocking and bracing everything

 

[Wally]

somewhere his little pecker perked up

 

[Wally]

So your saying their pilots fly like their local delivery guys drive

 

[JustDeliverIt]

View attachment 277360

Former Amazon driver that put on browns??

 

[TTLS1]

I heard it was a unsecured load as well.
Maybe the the fire caused it to lose the bracing apparatus.

i had never heard that. I’ll have to dig through the ntsb report when I go back to work and see if that was the suspected cause of the fire.

 

[quad decade guy]

Sadly that wasn’t an engine failure, the load wasn’t properly secured and shifted. The plane can recover from a stall if they have enough altitude. These guys didn’t stand a chance. Sad day for aviation. For anyone who wants to look it up that was a 747 operated by national.

Oh really? a plane can recover from a stall with enough altitude? Some planes. Not

all. Especially big planes like this. Best policy for stall recovery is to never let it stall

in the first place. Matter fact some planes are unrecoverable from stalls.

 

[trickpony1]

What ever happened to "weight and balance"?

 

[TTLS1]

Oh really? a plane can recover from a stall with enough altitude? Some planes. Not

all. Especially big planes like this. Best policy for stall recovery is to never let it stall

in the first place. Matter fact some planes are unrecoverable from stalls.

With enough altitude yes even a plane as large as a 747 will recover. You stall you push the nose down to gain airspeed, enough airspeed you will regain lift bringing you out of the stall. I don’t fly, but I have seen many stall recovery simulations in our simulator. Pilots practice stall recovery. Yes a plane as large as a 747 can recover

 

[cosmo1]

With enough altitude yes even a plane as large as a 747 will recover. You stall you push the nose down to gain airspeed, enough airspeed you will regain lift bringing you out of the stall. I don’t fly, but I have seen many stall recovery simulations in our simulator. Pilots practice stall recovery. Yes a plane as large as a 747 can recover

Do not argue with @quad decade guy, he is a bona fide safety guru.

 

[TTLS1]

What ever happened to "weight and balance"?

I can’t speak for this particular 747 but the weight and balance is the load master’s responsibility I believe. It was an armored vehicle that broke loose and went to the back of the plane making it pitch nose up, stalling the plane. I would say the weight and balance was correct but the load shifted.

 

[TTLS1]

Oh really? a plane can recover from a stall with enough altitude? Some planes. Not

all. Especially big planes like this. Best policy for stall recovery is to never let it stall

in the first place. Matter fact some planes are unrecoverable from stalls.

Direct from Boeing

 

[quad decade guy]

With enough altitude yes even a plane as large as a 747 will recover. You stall you push the nose down to gain airspeed, enough airspeed you will regain lift bringing you out of the stall. I don’t fly, but I have seen many stall recovery simulations in our simulator. Pilots practice stall recovery. Yes a plane as large as a 747 can recover

Well, I do fly and own my own plane. Not a 747. You said WILL recover. Maybe, maybe not.

Depends on the plane and circumstances. For example, my plane has a nasty unrecoverable spin.

So, you just don't do it. Load shifting is a whole other discussion. The famous(infamous)

Learjet fly's very close to the edge at high altitudes and has killed lot's of folks. For example,

some planes have stick shakers and stick pushers. The stall characteristics are so bad in these

planes that when near stall a device will start shaking the stick(control column) to get the

pilots attention and if corrective action isn't taken the device will push the stick forward

to prevent stall. In other words-don't even go there(stall). This is done because the natural

reaction to a loss of altitude stall is to keep pulling back and panic sets in. All well known,

common stuff. Am I an expert? No. But been flying for 35 years and instrument rated. I'm

also a certified aircraft technician....A & P. But don't do either for a living.

And for this I'm bullied, derided and torn down by a wholes who have nothing to add but abuse.

And yeah, I fly my plane like I drive my feeder....with safety #1.

 

[sailfish]

Well, I do fly and own my own plane. Not a 747. You said WILL recover. Maybe, maybe not.

Depends on the plane and circumstances. For example, my plane has a nasty unrecoverable spin.

So, you just don't do it. Load shifting is a whole other discussion. The famous(infamous)

Learjet fly's very close to the edge at high altitudes and has killed lot's of folks. For example,

some planes have stick shakers and stick pushers. The stall characteristics are so bad in these

planes that when near stall a device will start shaking the stick(control column) to get the

pilots attention and if corrective action isn't taken the device will push the stick forward

to prevent stall. In other words-don't even go there(stall). This is done because the natural

reaction to a loss of altitude stall is to keep pulling back and panic sets in. All well known,

common stuff. Am I an expert? No. But been flying for 35 years and instrument rated. I'm

also a certified aircraft technician....A & P. But don't do either for a living.

And for this I'm bullied, derided and torn down by a wholes who have nothing to add but abuse.

And yeah, I fly my plane like I drive my feeder....with safety #1.

With the way you like to space things, I think you'll enjoy these threads.

SomeBODY
One, two, three four five

 

[Johney]

*
I think his point is you are a bona fide safety Guru and to not argue with you. Has nothing to do with people getting killed.
Oh and he is nowhere close to a jackass, I have met him personally.

 

[Whither]

Former Amazon driver that put on browns??

When there's no good DR location sometimes you gotta make one

 

[TTLS1]

Well, I do fly and own my own plane. Not a 747. You said WILL recover. Maybe, maybe not.

Depends on the plane and circumstances. For example, my plane has a nasty unrecoverable spin.

So, you just don't do it. Load shifting is a whole other discussion. The famous(infamous)

Learjet fly's very close to the edge at high altitudes and has killed lot's of folks. For example,

some planes have stick shakers and stick pushers. The stall characteristics are so bad in these

planes that when near stall a device will start shaking the stick(control column) to get the

pilots attention and if corrective action isn't taken the device will push the stick forward

to prevent stall. In other words-don't even go there(stall). This is done because the natural

reaction to a loss of altitude stall is to keep pulling back and panic sets in. All well known,

common stuff. Am I an expert? No. But been flying for 35 years and instrument rated. I'm

also a certified aircraft technician....A & P. But don't do either for a living.

And for this I'm bullied, derided and torn down by a wholes who have nothing to add but abuse.

And yeah, I fly my plane like I drive my feeder....with safety #1.

Ok I shoulda said with more altitude it mighta recovered you win.

 

[clean hairy]

View attachment 277360

DR living room sofa?
The driver was told to follow Orion 100% no excuses, and this happened.

 

[quad decade guy]

Ok I shoulda said with more altitude it mighta recovered you win.

Not trying to win. It is one of the more interesting discussions here. It does show that bad things can

go wrong to even the most highly trained professionals. I'd trade jobs with you in a heartbeat.

 

[JustDeliverIt]

DR living room sofa?
The driver was told to follow Orion 100% no excuses, and this happened.

Should have taken it out the back instead of the side door. Might have been able to drop and run before anyone noticed!!