BEN CARSON: Prisons are gay factories...

[wkmac]

How do we fix this mess? Welfare isn't a very high standard if living...but... Its a better living than somebody making $10 an hour. When you factor food,medical and energy assistance. Plus you don't need transportation to work.

Great question and not an easy answer. There are people that need help and many because of circumstances even beyond their own choices will need continuing help. RB did qualify his idea to those able bodied and all the political boogie manning aside this issue generates from both sides, I think most everyone would generally agree with RB that the UNable bodied should be out of the discussion or at least addressed in a whole other discussion. In RB's case, I applaud his idea of a place to start.

As I look as the various corp. interests who profit and at the same time affect the outcome of our political choices, I have to wonder just how far they would also go to advocate public policy that help to sustain economic problems among population segments in which they would profit in some manner via the public purse? The next question is what politicians are in league with these corp. interests and I suspect a very bi-partisan picture would emerge if we began to look.

And you are correct, the standard of living contrary to the many carts full of T-Bones and the latest fully loaded Cadillac in the parking lot claims is not that great. If the Cadillac claims were so true, how could GM be in such economic straights?

Sadly when it comes to discussing welfare, the discussion more often than not begins and ends with public welfare but any real meaningful welfare discussion is going to have to embrace ALL FORMS of welfare and I suspect in doing so, there's nobody here who won't walk away having some favorite Ox of theirs being gored.

Do we have the courage to walk that walk?

 

[upschuck]

Ya brett, lets leave out that pesky "FACT" that white people make up the majority of welfare recievers.

Do you think that that will change everyone's mind? You've said it several times now, and think everybody will change their mind because of it. We are against people who take others money, and contribute very little to society on their own, and don't make an honest attempt to get off it. Simple as that. Not a racial stance, an anti lazy stance.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Great question and not an easy answer. There are people that need help and many because of circumstances even beyond their own choices will need continuing help. RB did qualify his idea to those able bodied and all the political boogie manning aside this issue generates from both sides, I think most everyone would generally agree with RB that the UNable bodied should be out of the discussion or at least addressed in a whole other discussion. In RB's case, I applaud his idea of a place to start.

As I look as the various corp. interests who profit and at the same time affect the outcome of our political choices, I have to wonder just how far they would also go to advocate public policy that help to sustain economic problems among population segments in which they would profit in some manner via the public purse? The next question is what politicians are in league with these corp. interests and I suspect a very bi-partisan picture would emerge if we began to look.

And you are correct, the standard of living contrary to the many carts full of T-Bones and the latest fully loaded Cadillac in the parking lot claims is not that great. If the Cadillac claims were so true, how could GM be in such economic straights?

Sadly when it comes to discussing welfare, the discussion more often than not begins and ends with public welfare but any real meaningful welfare discussion is going to have to embrace ALL FORMS of welfare and I suspect in doing so, there's nobody here who won't walk away having some favorite Ox of theirs being gored.

Do we have the courage to walk that walk?

DONT agree with corporate welfare. If we don't give it to them, they will go to another country
Unfortunately they know we need them. They are holding the cards.
As far as individuals, we need to give them an insensitive. Start with a time limit on benefits, just like unemployment.

After that period is over let them keep a percentage of their benefits if they find employment.

Gradually over a period of time decrease them. That's the only logical answer I have.

 

[wkmac]

Sorry Folks, he's kind of got a point here.

That may be true but how much if that was of his own choice with full knowledge and how much of that was a choice of others imposed upon him because he was a child or minor? Should I hold you to a standard of choices you made as a kid or even young adult? One can benefit from many bad things but that doesn't mean one can't become aware of the wrong and then criticize it.

I voted for Reagan once and Gerald Ford so does that negate my criticizing either now?

If it does, screw it as I'm going to trash them anyway!

 

[wkmac]

DONT agree with corporate welfare. If we don't give it to them, they will go to another country
Unfortunately they know we need them. They are holding the cards.
As far as individuals, we need to give them an insensitive. Start with a time limit on benefits, just like unemployment.

After that period is over let them keep a percentage of their benefits if they find employment.

Gradually over a period of time decrease them. That's the only logical answer I have.

So you are saying that in effect they hold a gun to our heads so we just better pay them or else? Am I reading this right?

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

So you are saying that in effect they hold a gun to our heads so we just better pay them or else? Am I reading this right?

Yes you are correct. On the corporations. Give me a tax break or I take my ball and go elsewhere.

 

[BrownArmy]

Do you think that that will change everyone's mind? You've said it several times now, and think everybody will change their mind because of it. We are against people who take others money, and contribute very little to society on their own, and don't make an honest attempt to get off it. Simple as that. Not a racial stance, an anti lazy stance.

So you are against Corporations? Because they are most guilty about this.

The numbers aren't even comparable (corporate vs. 'social' welfare), especially when you factor in the undeniable fact that corporations are the winners on the 'social' welfare side you decry.

Which is it?

We've all been sold a bill of goods, not been told what's on the manifest, and been pitted against each other for no good reason than it 'works for the 'status-quo'.

 

[upschuck]

So you are against Corporations? Because they are most guilty about this.

The numbers aren't even comparable (corporate vs. 'social' welfare), especially when you factor in the undeniable fact that corporations are the winners on the 'social' welfare side you decry.

Which is it?

We've all been sold a bill of goods, not been told what's on the manifest, and been pitted against each other for no good reason than it 'works for the 'status-quo'.

Yes, I am against corporate welfare for the most part, not against corporations. Just because I'm against something, doesn't mean I "hate" that thing. Two totally separate things.

 

[brett636]

Sorry Folks, he's kind of got a point here.

How so? He grew up in a single parent household in poverty. What government benefits he benefited from as a kid have been paid back several times over due to his earnings as a leading pediatric neurosurgeon.

 

[wkmac]

Yes you are correct. On the corporations. Give me a tax break or I take my ball and go elsewhere.

We'll agree to disagree. Kill the State and Crush the Bastards!

 

[ch317273]

Sorry Folks, he's kind of got a point here.

I disagree if anything Carson should be looked at as a prime example of someone who used social welfare and actually made something of himself, thus getting "off" of social assistance to become fully self sustaining, a seemingly rare occurrence, social welfare for many is like heroin, once ur on it, ur on it and need it and don't ever wanna get off! If anything this shows carson as a hero in my eyes, he actually used the system the right way! Amazing

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

We'll agree to disagree. Kill the State and Crush the Bastards!

Sorry you lost me on that one.

 

[wkmac]

Sorry you lost me on that one.

I said we'd agree to disagree.

Private or Public.

 

[realbrown1]

So, lets see if I have this correctly.

A soldiers wife is left alone with or without kids while her husband is in another country fighting a useless war. She has only the minimal income he provides and goes to the government for assistance. She gets the assistance and you want to limit it to 2 years, despite the fact that her husband would be called up for two, three, four , five tours as we saw during the BUSH administration.

Many of those families were forced into bankruptcy because of the endless tours of duty. Those National Guard soldiers who signed up for 1 weekend a month and two weeks out of the year, were forced into conflict for as many as 5 tours and ALL of them lost their jobs back at home.

SO, using your logic, his family at home should be forced off welfare and the wife forced to work.

Ya, you got it all figured out.

Dont forget one statistic. WHITE PEOPLE make up the majority of welfare recipients in the USA.

TOS.

You know SO LITTLE of military service and yet you speak SO MUCH about it. It's really telling the asumptions you make about soldiers in combat areas and the spouse and children they leave behind.

To put it simply, you KNOW NOTHING OF HOW THE MILITARY TAKE CARE OF IT'S OWN.

 

[bbsam]

Hey op needs, yep I enlisted right out of high school in May of 2001, served in the 1st battalion 1st marines out of Pendleton in San diego, "first of the first" was battalion alias, did my full 5 but last 2 were at the usmc recruit depot on Paris island as an instructor ( E-5 sergeant)due to injury sustained in the beautiful korengal valley of Afghanistan on June 9th of 2003, was hit in right femur with what was found to be 2 separate 7.62 x 39mm rounds fired by Taliban Kalashnikov ak47 during routine inspection of village outside Darbart, I received Purple Heart and bronze star from that day, but it took me the remaining 2 years of crappy surgeries and PT to get back into the swing of things.... So for anyone to even remotely hint that I somehow don't like America or Americans is truly a sick individual who should be ashamed of themselves, especially since my brother was a specialist in the 173rd airborne in Iraq and lost his left arm

Good for you. My buddy will be back in town this weekend so I'm helping him move his mother in law. He's a marine Lt. Colonel out in San Diego. Great guy but I think a little disenchanted. Service is noble and needed and everyone should respect those who do.

Don't think for one moment though that your patriotism and service hasn't been misused and coopted by politicians and corporations for whom you mean as little as the welfare recipients you find so repulsive. If you live, you are a hometown photo-op; if you die, your grieving family is the backdrop for a congressman and a flag draped coffin.

Have you noticed how trite "thank you for your service" has come to sound? You've bled for this country. You've watched others die for this country. For board members and welfare queens, junkies and rock stars. Soccer moms and single dad's of all colors and creeds. Either all of them are worth it or none of them are worth it because we are what make America.

Just remember that you volunteered and whether people are genuinely grateful or spit in your face, this is the America you swore to defend. All of it. Fair? Probably not.

 

[BrownArmy]

How so? He grew up in a single parent household in poverty. What government benefits he benefited from as a kid have been paid back several times over due to his earnings as a leading pediatric neurosurgeon.

That's not the point. The point is that he's railing against a system in which he succeeded.

So he'll deny, for others, the options and possibilities that he thrived under?

For what, talking points in his 'exploratory' bid to be President?

Chicanery.

 

[brett636]

That's not the point. The point is that he's railing against a system in which he succeeded.

So he'll deny, for others, the options and possibilities that he thrived under?

For what, talking points in his 'exploratory' bid to be President?

Chicanery.

So now we are holding people accountable for the circumstances they were born into? Honestly we don't know exactly what government programs, if any, Ben Carson "succeeded" under, and if there were any I doubt any were his choice.

 

[BrownArmy]

How so? He grew up in a single parent household in poverty. What government benefits he benefited from as a kid have been paid back several times over due to his earnings as a leading pediatric neurosurgeon.

So now we are holding people accountable for the circumstances they were born into? Honestly we don't know exactly what government programs, if any, Ben Carson "succeeded" under, and if there were any I doubt any were his choice.

In either case, it's disingenuous on Mssr. Carsons' part to decry the concept of 'public assistance' as some sort of 'socialist' cancer that plagues the land.

Again, chicanery.

 

[realbrown1]

Its relevant because the old WHITE people on this board believe that all welfare recipients are lazy blacks and hispanics.

Facts are facts. Whites are the majority of welfare recievers in this country.

You may not like it, but its a fact.

TOS.

I don't care what color they are. Cut the abled bodied ones off after 2 years.

 

[realbrown1]

In either case, it's disingenuous on Mssr. Carsons' part to decry the concept of 'public assistance' as some sort of 'socialist' cancer that plagues the land.

Again, chicanery.

Public assistance is a detriment to society as a whole if it causes people to stop trying to be self suffecient.

And again, just in case a troll or 2 missed it, I don't care what color they are.