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MenInBrown
Guest
Thank you. We both agreed on the same thing. But spending is not going to go down, so there for taxes do not need to be raised.
Biden - Tology
- Thread starter tieguy
- Start date
Thank you. We both agreed on the same thing. But spending is not going to go down, so there for taxes do not need to be raised.
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MenInBrown
Guest
Exactly...thats what I just posted. Federal spending has not dropped once in over 40 years.
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MenInBrown
Guest
wkmac
Well-Known Member
True but I don't see where democrats or republicans have much to crow about in regards to themselves or to complain at those across the isle.
Incorrect. Spending will go down either by sequester or by a grand bargain.
What you posted showd democrats being the more fiscally responsible. I'm not surprised, perhaps you are.
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MenInBrown
Guest
Thats bogus and you know it...entitlements for one are increasing at alarming rates so where will you get twice the cuts to offset that? year over year over year...not gonna happen.
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MenInBrown
Guest
Actual that posting showed no numbers on who was more fically responsible...so yeah Im surprised that you didnt read it...or should I say, understand it.
It will happen because both parties will literally have their backs against the wall. Everything will be on the table and the House republicans will either accept the deal or they will annihilate their own party with stubborness and drive the economy over more than just a fiscal cliff.
Really? Did you read the numbers behind each president that showed how much revenue increased compared to spending? In each case, the democratic administrations brought in more than the spending increase and in each republican administration the opposite is true. Now who didn't understand what he posted?
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MenInBrown
Guest
Are you in favor of entitlement reforms?
Absolutely. There is no way to fiscal sanity without it. I am like Upstate. I think all the Bush era "temporary tax cuts" should be allowed to expire and I don't give a damn if it hurts for a while and I don't care if we have to cut defense and entitlements by 10% to do it. I also think that Obamacare and smarter but less defense spending can get us much more "bang for the buck".
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MenInBrown
Guest
Really? What were the numbers to cause the percentages? I didnt post them. If you are spending $100 but bringing in 10$...lets say you raised your spending to $110 and raise what you were bringing in to $50...Doesnt that show a higher % of revenue growth compared to spending...Like I said...those numbers were not posted. Now really? Who didnt understand the post? oooooookkkkkkkkk
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MenInBrown
Guest
ok
Holy cow. From your own post, Carter's revenue increased 20% spending increased 13%. 20>13. Therefore, not only was the increased spending paid for, it left money available to pay down debt. Now when the revenue increase<spending increase, the debt grows (see any republican president listed). Is that too complicated?
wkmac
Well-Known Member
What I read above is that in democrat administrations, taxes were cut and spending actually grew less than the revenue generated which in one sense left a surplus of new revenue say to pay down debt? In the case of the republicans, in each example you listed, revenue went up but spending by an even greater amount.
And you list as myth "We can only cut taxes by cutting spending by the same amount.." and under fact you go on to say " If we would just stop spending so much money, we would have a surplus, taxes could be even lower than they are now, and we could start paying off the national debt. The problem isn’t that we aren’t being taxed enough. The problem is that the government is spending too much money."
But your own facts above prove that the ones doing the excess spending over and above revenue are the republicans. Obama is nothing but another Bush IMO and has proven himself such regardless of the myths from democrats. But looking at history itself that you posted, why do I have any reason to think that in Romney, history and republican track record will change?
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MenInBrown
Guest
ok..I just showed you an example of how just percentages work, but you cant understand it...thats ok. The example shows you that there is still a deficit, not a surplus even though I showed you a higher % of revenue than spending. The numbers to show you whether there was a deficit or surpluss are not posted. you mention carter, I did not post what the revenue was and what it increased to...nor did I post what spending was and what it increased to...dude this is funny.
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MenInBrown
Guest
If I am bringing in 100 and spending 10...then I bring in 110 next year and spend 50...My spending has more of a percntage growth, but guess what...no defifcit has occured yet. These are percentage...this does not show what the starting figures were to where the figures ended to get a %...2+2 does not =22
wkmac
Well-Known Member
But you are ignoring the fact that republicans make it worse. I'll concede the point that democrats are no better at some level because even in generating a surplus by the difference in increased revenue to lesser spending, they didn't pay down the debt. If you track our debt over the last 50 years, it's obvious no change in direction but up has taken place. But here again, republicans have been worse.
Yet from a fiscal POV, it's not the democrats who are the socialists so to speak, but it's the republicans. Fact is from a Neo-Mussolini/Fabian Society POV, both parties are.
UPS Lifer
Well-Known Member
Caharrell5,
It is nice to see that someone gets it. The economy is an extremely complex animal. Psychology also plays a role. As they say, perception is reality. If you think you are going to have an issue paying higher taxes, or meeting payroll, you will cut your own individual or company spending to reduce your burden.
Most of us have no clue how the economy works. I feel I have a very small understanding of it. If someone with power understood every nuance we wouldn't be where we are today.
My dad owned a small business, he bid on a contract that would have meant hiring 50 more people. Small business that are trying to grow don't have cash laying around that requires paying a payroll every two weeks that could be thousands of dollars. They have to get loans. A hostile business climate means these companies will not expand because they will not be able to succeed because they can't meet payroll demands on a week to week basis. Business succeeds when they can reinvest and capitalize and grow enough to create a steady cash flow that covers all the expenses.
Another area, the garment industry uses margins to take future profits and put that up as collateral for loans to make current product. How well do you think they are doing in this hostile business climate? If they can't hire because of additional health care and tax costs, how will they make the margin.
Companies decide not to grow or they close their doors because they can't make it anymore. Unless you have owned a business and STRUGGLED to make payroll and pay expenses, you just don't understand.
This next statement is not meant to demean hard working employees...
Collecting a weekly/monthly paycheck does not put us in that category (Business owners). We work extremely hard for our money but that doe not give us the understanding as well as experience as to what it takes to keep the doors open on a business.
I just hope and pray that people start to understand that it takes spending cuts (slow and through attrition and some pain for all of us) and revenue growth through tax incentives, smart regulation and lower taxes to start the ball rolling faster to get us to a sustained and strong recovery.
Bill Clinton understood what it took his second term. He knew how to cross the isle. Reagan also knew how to cross the isle. These men were TRUE leaders. We need to get back to that .. and it ain't through the path of the current occupants of the White House.
It is nice to see that someone gets it. The economy is an extremely complex animal. Psychology also plays a role. As they say, perception is reality. If you think you are going to have an issue paying higher taxes, or meeting payroll, you will cut your own individual or company spending to reduce your burden.
Most of us have no clue how the economy works. I feel I have a very small understanding of it. If someone with power understood every nuance we wouldn't be where we are today.
My dad owned a small business, he bid on a contract that would have meant hiring 50 more people. Small business that are trying to grow don't have cash laying around that requires paying a payroll every two weeks that could be thousands of dollars. They have to get loans. A hostile business climate means these companies will not expand because they will not be able to succeed because they can't meet payroll demands on a week to week basis. Business succeeds when they can reinvest and capitalize and grow enough to create a steady cash flow that covers all the expenses.
Another area, the garment industry uses margins to take future profits and put that up as collateral for loans to make current product. How well do you think they are doing in this hostile business climate? If they can't hire because of additional health care and tax costs, how will they make the margin.
Companies decide not to grow or they close their doors because they can't make it anymore. Unless you have owned a business and STRUGGLED to make payroll and pay expenses, you just don't understand.
This next statement is not meant to demean hard working employees...
Collecting a weekly/monthly paycheck does not put us in that category (Business owners). We work extremely hard for our money but that doe not give us the understanding as well as experience as to what it takes to keep the doors open on a business.
I just hope and pray that people start to understand that it takes spending cuts (slow and through attrition and some pain for all of us) and revenue growth through tax incentives, smart regulation and lower taxes to start the ball rolling faster to get us to a sustained and strong recovery.
Bill Clinton understood what it took his second term. He knew how to cross the isle. Reagan also knew how to cross the isle. These men were TRUE leaders. We need to get back to that .. and it ain't through the path of the current occupants of the White House.
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