Biden - Tology

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MenInBrown

Guest
so if romney only increased spending by 1% which would still be way over a trillion dollar deficit...would that make him look good if he raised 2% in revenue...that would still leave over a trillion dollar deficit..that would mean he is fiscally responsible by your defenition???thus what I have been beating into you about these percentages...The numbers you want to compare are not posted.
 
M

MenInBrown

Guest
Caharrell5,

It is nice to see that someone gets it. The economy is an extremely complex animal. Psychology also plays a role. As they say, perception is reality. If you think you are going to have an issue paying higher taxes, or meeting payroll, you will cut your own individual or company spending to reduce your burden.

Most of us have no clue how the economy works. I feel I have a very small understanding of it. If someone with power understood every nuance we wouldn't be where we are today.

My dad owned a small business, he bid on a contract that would have meant hiring 50 more people. Small business that are trying to grow don't have cash laying around that requires paying a payroll every two weeks that could be thousands of dollars. They have to get loans. A hostile business climate means these companies will not expand because they will not be able to succeed because they can't meet payroll demands on a week to week basis. Business succeeds when they can reinvest and capitalize and grow enough to create a steady cash flow that covers all the expenses.

Another area, the garment industry uses margins to take future profits and put that up as collateral for loans to make current product. How well do you think they are doing in this hostile business climate? If they can't hire because of additional health care and tax costs, how will they make the margin.

Companies decide not to grow or they close their doors because they can't make it anymore. Unless you have owned a business and STRUGGLED to make payroll and pay expenses, you just don't understand.

This next statement is not meant to demean hard working employees...
Collecting a weekly/monthly paycheck does not put us in that category (Business owners). We work extremely hard for our money but that doe not give us the understanding as well as experience as to what it takes to keep the doors open on a business.

I just hope and pray that people start to understand that it takes spending cuts (slow and through attrition and some pain for all of us) and revenue growth through tax incentives, smart regulation and lower taxes to start the ball rolling faster to get us to a sustained and strong recovery.

Bill Clinton understood what it took his second term. He knew how to cross the isle. Reagan also knew how to cross the isle. These men were TRUE leaders. We need to get back to that .. and it ain't through the path of the current occupants of the White House.

well said
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
ok..I just showed you an example of how just percentages work, but you cant understand it...thats ok. The example shows you that there is still a deficit, not a surplus even though I showed you a higher % of revenue than spending. The numbers to show you whether there was a deficit or surpluss are not posted. you mention carter, I did not post what the revenue was and what it increased to...nor did I post what spending was and what it increased to...dude this is funny.
it is funny. Your post shows trends for both republican and democratic administrations and the trends are opposite of what you want it to be.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
If I am bringing in 100 and spending 10...then I bring in 110 next year and spend 50...My spending has more of a percntage growth, but guess what...no defifcit has occured yet. These are percentage...this does not show what the starting figures were to where the figures ended to get a %...2+2 does not =22

But your facts posted, let's take Reagan for example:

Reagan grew revenue over previous revenue yet he grew spending over previous spending by an even greater amount than the new revenue could support. If you contention were true, then why did Federal debt borrowing explode under Reagan and has yet to abate?

You can use accounting gymnastics all you want but I'm looking at the hard data that revs. went up, spending even greater, deficits occurred and to make up all the difference, the federal gov't had to borrow the money in ever greater amounts to have the funds on hand to pay for it all.

Those are the hard facts at the end of the day hit all of us in the face and no accounting gymnastics will explain that away!
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
But your facts posted, let's take Reagan for example:

Reagan grew revenue over previous revenue yet he grew spending over previous spending by an even greater amount than the new revenue could support. If you contention were true, then why did Federal debt borrowing explode under Reagan and has yet to abate?

You can use accounting gymnastics all you want but I'm looking at the hard data that revs. went up, spending even greater, deficits occurred and to make up all the difference, the federal gov't had to borrow the money in ever greater amounts to have the funds on hand to pay for it all.

Those are the hard facts at the end of the day hit all of us in the face and no accounting gymnastics will explain that away!

The growth in spending under Reagan decreased. GDP per working adult and productivity increased under Reagan. The bad of the Reagan presidency was the increase in national debt in an attempt to curb inflation(which ironically worked).
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
The growth in spending under Reagan decreased. GDP per working adult and productivity increased under Reagan. The bad of the Reagan presidency was the increase in national debt in an attempt to curb inflation(which ironically worked).

But in the last 10 years many people ran their household finances in the same way (spending more than taking in and financing the difference) and we decried that and it's outcome. So why then does it become OK when gov't does it?

And to be honest, I find your defense being useful in full support of what Roadrunner's point was.

It's a step in the right direction, wouldn't you agree?

this was in reply to my point here and Road's earlier point here.

If you are going to defend a reduction in spending as a % of total spending then why is a % reduction in deficit not defended as being fiscally responsible? This is where both parties pick and choose positive outcomes while ignoring the facts on the ground that it all gets worse. I'm also surprised (or maybe not) the defense by so many that in the case of the Reagan era that to achieve the control of stagflation and unemployment that this would require a direct intervention in the marketplace by gov't with a central planning model built to derive a specific outcome. How do you achieve a smaller limited state by increasing gov't interventions regardless of outcomes? How are these economic planning models any different from the 10 year plans we use to hear of coming out of the old Soviet Union? Could it be no different and we just call them budgets? Hmmmm!
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
The growth in spending under Reagan decreased. GDP per working adult and productivity increased under Reagan. The bad of the Reagan presidency was the increase in national debt in an attempt to curb inflation(which ironically worked).

This is no different than saying the debt increase under Obama was an attempt to prevent further economic collapse (which ironically worked).
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
This is no different than saying the debt increase under Obama was an attempt to prevent further economic collapse (which ironically worked).


It depends on what side of the fence you are on. I say it just put us deeper in debt with no real recovery and now we are heading for a double dip recession.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
It depends on what side of the fence you are on. I say it just put us deeper in debt with no real recovery and now we are heading for a double dip recession.

That double dip is absolutely avoidable save for the extremes on both sides insisting on "winning".
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
I needed new " hotel pans" for roasting veggies, and wanted to not spend a lot of money on them.....
WalMart had 3 sizes of "cookie sheets for cheap(small lip)and they are American made!!

Gonna be a vegetarian and I don't have a cooking show on food network where they seem to grab a pan to roast the veggies and everyday they have new pans.
The Barefoot Contessa does it the best. Just make one or two of her sides and leave out the meat.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
I needed new " hotel pans" for roasting veggies, and wanted to not spend a lot of money on them.....
WalMart had 3 sizes of "cookie sheets for cheap(small lip)and they are American made!!

Gonna be a vegetarian and I don't have a cooking show on food network where they seem to grab a pan to roast the veggies and everyday they have new pans.
The Barefoot Contessa does it the best. Just make one or two of her sides and leave out the meat.
I love her. Have you tried Pinterest?
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
I love her. Have you tried Pinterest?
I had to look that oneup.........and no.
I look at her show everyday and take recipes as I see ones I like. I just print them out. this is going to be my investment in me!!

the cancer cells will hate me......but thats' OK
 
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