Cadillac Health Care Plan

[unionman]

Unionman,
I am also an Independent that truly believed Obama was going to change things for the better.
With his great speeches --He bamboozled me --his word.
He is a typical old school politician and I will work to get him out of office in 2012.
Having Tort Reform, and the 1300 insurance companies in full competition across state lines in the free market have been proposed by the right. Also a one page add on --stating no person can be dropped by insurance companies and you cannot be turned down for pre-existing conditions.
I believe if obama truly wanted Health care reform --he would take these ideas from the right --take the best ideas from the left --and the American people would support him and the bill.
Obama --like you--use the same talking points --the right has NO ideas.
They have many --you and him just will not compromise for the good of the entire country !!!
Even in the change I just proposed --there are left and right ideas --that many in the middle would gladly support !!!

It doesn't matter. Insurance companies are out of control and thats the way it will stay.

 

[dannyboy]

Insurance companies are out of control and thats the way it will stay

not really. allow them unfettered access across state lines, and you will see the prices drop dramatically. who put those barriers up? our gooberment. so again, they are really good about identifying the problem.....after all, they caused the problem.

if health insurance were like car insurance, used only for the calamities in life, then health care insurance would drop by over half overnight.

why should they cover every little aspect of your healthcare? do you carry insurance for your oil changes? new tires? car wash? and if you did, can you imagine how expensive it would be?

proof? see what a 5000 deductible policy costs vs one of your pay all types. and if they did not have to process hundreds of millions of claims because claims less than $100 are paid out of pocket, can you imagine the savings both for the insurance co and drs offices? savings that would drive down the cost of healthcare insurance.

d

 

[unionman]

not really. allow them unfettered access across state lines, and you will see the prices drop dramatically. who put those barriers up? our gooberment. so again, they are really good about identifying the problem.....after all, they caused the problem.

if health insurance were like car insurance, used only for the calamities in life, then health care insurance would drop by over half overnight.

why should they cover every little aspect of your healthcare? do you carry insurance for your oil changes? new tires? car wash? and if you did, can you imagine how expensive it would be?

proof? see what a 5000 deductible policy costs vs one of your pay all types. and if they did not have to process hundreds of millions of claims because claims less than $100 are paid out of pocket, can you imagine the savings both for the insurance co and drs offices? savings that would drive down the cost of healthcare insurance.

d

For one thing, I doubt that allowing HMOs to compete with each other across state lines would have much of an impact at all on costs.
Another thing, isn't preventitive care one of the major things that keep health costs down and it is a major reason why people live longer.

The debate is over as far as i am concerned. I did not want Obama to tackle healthcare at this time to begin with. I think the economy is priority one but I guess with the dems having a majority they figured it was now or never.

 

[tieguy]

awesome. So our costs relative to our competitors will continue to increase. We will likely stay profitable, but at the cost of raising prices. Which of course will ensure that we continue (not start mind you but continue) to bleed market share, volume, and jobs to our competition for the forseable future.

Agreed . the socialist / liberal hope is that they can tax corporations to pay for helping the less fortunate without affecting the current pricing structure. Thus hoping that corporations eat the additional tax's in their profits without raising the prices. Instead corporations have to maintain a specific profit margin to keep their investors happy and will pass that cost on to consumers. Thus those the tax is designed to help never catch up.

 

[tieguy]

people making over 500,000 isn't your average person and they have been getting huge concessions from the pharma and HMO companies. This thing could come out smelling like a rose but Republicans would still say its wasted money.

class warfare justification. Reality is a different story.

 

[tieguy]

I disagree. The main reason these drugs are held up in trials and other countries have them are because of the lobbyist for the drug companies themselves.
Of course you have the government making sure people aren't selling cure all mister feel good syrup

you're saying the drug company lobbyist is asking the government to subject the drug companies to extra trials and expense?

 

[island1fox]

For one thing, I doubt that allowing HMOs to compete with each other across state lines would have much of an impact at all on costs.
Another thing, isn't preventitive care one of the major things that keep health costs down and it is a major reason why people live longer.

The debate is over as far as i am concerned. I did not want Obama to tackle healthcare at this time to begin with. I think the economy is priority one but I guess with the dems having a majority they figured it was now or never.

Unionman,
You sound like a spoiled brat that did not get his way.
The health care debate is only beginning--contrary to the left talking points --American's --Left -Center -and right must reform our heath care system.
All good ideas should now be in play and on the table. You seem to think that across state lines does not matter ??

Picture UPS in only 20 states ---Fed x in another 20 states ---the remaining ten states had both companies ---Who would have the better shipping rates???? !!!
Please it is so OBVIOUS !!! The free Market --when the government moves out of the way will solve the cost problem --with a few "legislated items" the left would like to see ---Pre-existing --no dropped coverage --etc ---If American"s demanded --"Politics as usual" --get out of the way all American's would greatly benefit.

 

[unionman]

class warfare justification. Reality is a different story.

Warren Buffett said he pays less taxes than a lady that takes out his trash. Something is wrong when the rich have loop holes to get around taxes.
80 billion dollars was wrestled away from the pharma companies in exchange for the government not allowing the new healthcare system to use Canada drugs. This any other consesions given up by HMOs will go for not and we will continue to see our health care costs go through the roof. Well most of us. I don't pay a dime for mine so that means UPS will continue to see there health care costs go through the roof. Oh well.l

 

[tieguy]

the govenment is going to have to build some credibility with health care. 1000 page bills reeking of perks and exemptions will not build up any taxpayer confidence. If you think you can fix health care then do it piece by piece and make your case to the voting public.

 

[dannyboy]

For one thing, I doubt that allowing HMOs to compete with each other across state lines would have much of an impact at all on costs

why would it not have an impact? open up markets. level the playing field.

not that long ago, there were market forces that kept ups from shipping within certain counties within the usa. there were forces that attempted to protect their market from any and all threats, and they spent the money needed to keep it that way. as a result, the costs of doing business within those areas were higher than they are now, that those barriers are no longer there. competition is a good thing when it comes to customers getting the best price on anything.

isn't preventitive care one of the major things that keep health costs down and it is a major reason why people live longer.

some preventative care does have savings long term, others actually have no other impact than to increase healthcare costs.

but why should insurance be required to pay for preventive care? why not pay for that out of pocket?

if you quit nickle and dimeing the insurance companies to death, and being responsible for the preventative care, those costs would actually decrease. both in what the insurance companies charge to cover you, and the costs of the procedure itself.

remember, 5% of the people are responsible for 70%+ of the medical costs incurred in this country. and that cost for those 5% is charged to the rest of us in higher premiums.

d

 

[unionman]

The whole healthcare system is flawed. from the 100 dollar bed pan, to the homeless lady being dropped off in front of a hospital in a taxi that was payed for by another hospital.
You can't tell me that medicaid and medicare costs are not going up as fast as healthcare costs for companies. Its out of control and there is no way in hell the dems and the rep are ever gonna get something passed together. There is just to much at stake for big insurance companies.

 

[tieguy]

Warren Buffett said he pays less taxes than a lady that takes out his trash. Something is wrong when the rich have loop holes to get around taxes.

Class warefare argument number one. How much did Warren donate to various charities and community based efforts.

How many people did warrens investment activities directly and indirectly employ?

The class warfarist is always quick to scream loophole as if Warren and the government did something dishonest.

 

[dannyboy]

Warren Buffett said he pays less taxes than a lady that takes out his trash. Something is wrong when the rich have loop holes to get around taxes

taxes are paid as you cash in on the increased value of investments.

so if he is not cashing in his stock, then why would he pay taxes? so yes, the lady that takes out his trash is showing the income she is taking at this time. if he is not showing an income by selling stock or cashing in on investments, then he does not have an income to tax.

now, that being said, if you cash in 550 million in stock, and 200 million is the increase in the investment, you pay taxes on the 200 million. but what happens if you give 300 million of that 550 million to charity? that means you dont pay any taxes at all on that increase, as you have a higher deduction than income.

one last shot, what about family farms. families have worked for many generations to increase their farms and their holdings. through saving, and hard work.

so why should they, when the father of this family dies, should they have to sell off the farm just to pay the estate tax due?

its that type of stupidity that has made it difficult for the average family to put away serious family value.

d

 

[unionman]

Warren Buffett said he pays less taxes than a lady that takes out his trash. Something is wrong when the rich have loop holes to get around taxes.

Class warefare argument number one. How much did Warren donate to various charities and community based efforts.

How many people did warrens investment activities directly and indirectly employ?

The class warfarist is always quick to scream loophole as if Warren and the government did something dishonest.

He said he doesn't pay nearly enough taxes as he should. That's not ware fare, that's a fact that should get every bodies attention. Look taxing the rich to pay for healthcare is not the answer anyhow.
There are many other things that need to be done to bring costs down that far out way making the rich pay for it.

 

[dannyboy]

He said he doesn't pay nearly enough taxes as he should

ah yes, the "i should really be paying more than i do, and its the gooberments fault i dont pay my fair share" saying.

for that i have one really good answer. if you feel guilty about not paying more in taxes than you do, then offer to, and write a check for what ever money you want to donate. not a damn thing stopping you or them from doing that.

thing is, everybody i know, and there are several that make 7 figures and more per year, pays more in taxes than they do for any other thing in their life. several pay almost half of what they make in taxes. can you boast that?

d

 

[unionman]

ah yes, the "i should really be paying more than i do, and its the gooberments fault i dont pay my fair share" saying.

for that i have one really good answer. if you feel guilty about not paying more in taxes than you do, then offer to, and write a check for what ever money you want to donate. not a damn thing stopping you or them from doing that.

thing is, everybody i know, and there are several that make 7 figures and more per year, pays more in taxes than they do for any other thing in their life. several pay almost half of what they make in taxes. can you boast that?

d

Half? I don't think there is a 50% tax bracket but I know what your trying to say. Your friends need to find some loop holes (tax write offs).

 

[tieguy]

Half? I don't think there is a 50% tax bracket but I know what your trying to say. Your friends need to find some loop holes (tax write offs).

depending on the state you live in by the time you pay federal , state,county , city, real estate, sales, luxery, school etc it could easily be more then half.

 

[dannyboy]

Your friends need to find some loop holes

now here we hit on a real problem.

why build a tax code, then fill it full of loopholes?

as i say, less gooberment for less stuidity in gooberment.

d

 

[unionman]

now here we hit on a real problem.

why build a tax code, then fill it full of loopholes?

as i say, less gooberment for less stuidity in gooberment.

d

What should the tax rate be for lets say somebody making 100k?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

www.fairtax.org