Central states pensioners, please read!

[705red]

And I believe the TDU has thier own ambitions and thier own agenda and would think nothing of creating some pension hysteria for thier own personal gain.

Believe it or not, there are a lot of people that are fed up with business as usual! The reason you are so hard on TDU is because as a UPA sup you like how easy you have it under the current administration! You do not want change and will smack done any group that just wants to inform the members!

Instead of taking jabs at the TDU, prove what they are saying is wrong! If not just lick your wounds and move on!

 

[tieguy]

Believe it or not, there are a lot of people that are fed up with business as usual! The reason you are so hard on TDU is because as a UPA sup you like how easy you have it under the current administration! You do not want change and will smack done any group that just wants to inform the members!

Instead of taking jabs at the TDU, prove what they are saying is wrong! If not just lick your wounds and move on!

I would respect tdu if they also mentioned the positives of the teamsters union and company. The only time they did that was when APwA was knocking on the door. Otherwise the only thing they engage in is a campaign of negativity meant to undermine both the company and the teamsters. I also believe you have more then a passing interest in tdu whether you carry
a card or not.

And I think I can say I have frequently rebutted tdu points when they were raised here. Everytime you try to push some new tdu slam you try to pretend its the first time we've discussed it.

TDU should stand for teamsters demoralizing unit. Thier only purpose is to demoralize teamsters.

or teamsters depression unit

teamster denial unit

 

[705red]

I would respect tdu if they also mentioned the positives of the teamsters union and company. The only time they did that was when APwA was knocking on the door. Otherwise the only thing they engage in is a campaign of negativity meant to undermine both the company and the teamsters. I also believe you have more then a passing interest in tdu whether you carry
a card or not.

Its not your job to respect TDU! your in management and they often call folks like yourself out!
If UPS wants to be talked about in a positive light, they should treat people and the contract with respect.

And I think I can say I have frequently rebutted tdu points when they were raised here. Everytime you try to push some new tdu slam you try to pretend its the first time we've discussed it.

I have read all of your so called rebuttals and never have i seen you prove a point! At work you might be able to fudge numbers to your liking, but here in the real world we need to see facts.

TDU should stand for teamsters demoralizing unit. Thier only purpose is to demoralize teamsters.

or teamsters depression unit

teamster denial unit

Teamsters defending upsers!

Its amazing that any time anyone uncovers a ups scandal you are sent here to muddy the waters! Are you the corporate spy?

 

[tieguy]

Teamsters defending upsers!

Its amazing that any time anyone uncovers a ups scandal you are sent here to muddy the waters! Are you the corporate spy?

I'm sorry did I arrive at a teamster controlled web site by mistake?

Red is there a reason you don't feel comfortable defending the merits of TDU that you now have to resort to accusing me of being a corporate spy?

Red if you're a little sensitive about your relationship to tdu or I'm being a little too tough on you just say so

I need a moderator ruling here. If I'm accused of being a corporate spy is that a victory in my favor?

I believe the rules of blog warefare indicate its a clear victory in my favor?

Perhaps a poll?

 

[705red]

I'm sorry did I arrive at a teamster controlled web site by mistake?

Red is there a reason you don't feel comfortable defending the merits of TDU that you now have to resort to accusing me of being a corporate spy?

Red if you're a little sensitive about your relationship to tdu or I'm being a little too tough on you just say so

I need a moderator ruling here. If I'm accused of being a corporate spy is that a victory in my favor?

I believe the rules of blog warefare indicate its a clear victory in my favor?

Perhaps a poll?

Tie how can you even think that you are winning this? YOU have not rebutted anything that tdu said in there article! Nothing, zippo, notta!

Also remember that this is not a ups controlled website and we are able to think without you telling us whats right. When we are on here we will not listen to your garbage! At work you get paid the big bucks to make piss poor decisions that then lead to us making the big bucks in easy over time!

Nice try spin master! You probably have known all along that the company had pulled the wool over the unions eyes with this language and now are shocked that some one took the time to investigate and then inform the members!

We all know that the last thing ups wants are people well informed!

 

[pretzel_man]

Teamsters defending upsers!

Its amazing that any time anyone uncovers a ups scandal you are sent here to muddy the waters! Are you the corporate spy?

Red:

I've read the material three times now, and while I admit I'm not close to the pension situation I don't see the scandal.

The web site shows all the faults with the new UPS / IBT pension plan for the central states.

It also compares this plan to other teamster plans and says it doesn't pay favorably.

I guess I don't understand why the comparison is to other teamster plans, instead of the previous Central States plan?

There is a statement about getting two checks, and that if there is a problem with the central states UPS will not make up the difference. This is stated as a negative.

But, it seems to me that if you compare this to the old Central States plan, that employee is better off than they would have been.

There is a statement that employees that do the same work are getting less pension. Again, I don't understand. That situation existed before UPS and the IBT changed the Central States pension. In fact it was a greater different before wasn't it?

It seems to me that the web site is posted a very one sided point of view. Help me understand where I'm misreading that.

P-Man

 

[705red]

I by no means am a pension expert myself. But what i gather from reading that, is what was said about ups picking up the difference from what a retiree would collect from the cs plan is only good through this current contract.

If i recall the selling point in 07 for getting the contract done a year early was that ups if allowed to buy out of the cs plan would make up the difference for all ups retirees out of that plan. At no time was it discussed that that option was only good for the duration of this contract.

So in all reality at the expiration of this contract our upsers in that plan could be in just as bad of a situation as if they where still fullly vested under the cs plan.

Now i could be wrong, but that is my understanding.

 

[tieguy]

I by no means am a pension expert myself. But what i gather from reading that, is what was said about ups picking up the difference from what a retiree would collect from the cs plan is only good through this current contract.

everything in the current contract is up for renegotiation once the contract ends. Thus all have a lifespan of the current contract. TDU takes that point and tries to make it sound sinister.

There are pension laws that supercede the contract. Much of what the teamsters have tried to accuse ups of doing with pension plans just simply was not possible in the past. This is more of the same BS.

 

[local804]

. You brag about 25 and out when in reality ups has paid enough where you should get so much more.

We start at 21
Me - able to retire at 46- 25 years of service
you- able to retire at 55(hell maybe 57 now)34+ years
any questions?

 

[Catatonic]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tieguy
. You brag about 25 and out when in reality ups has paid enough where you should get so much more.

We start at 21
Me - able to retire at 46- 25 years of service
you- able to retire at 55(hell maybe 57 now)34+ years
any questions?

I think he was referring to the monthly payout ... and for one of the few times, I agree with Tieguy.

 

[local804]

I would respect tdu if they also mentioned the positives of the teamsters union and company. The only time they did that was when APwA was knocking on the door. Otherwise the only thing they engage in is a campaign of negativity meant to undermine both the company and the teamsters. I also believe you have more then a passing interest in tdu whether you carry
a card or not.

And I think I can say I have frequently rebutted tdu points when they were raised here. Everytime you try to push some new tdu slam you try to pretend its the first time we've discussed it.

TDU should stand for teamsters demoralizing unit. Thier only purpose is to demoralize teamsters.

or teamsters depression unit

teamster denial unit

I got a kick out of that

 

[local804]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tieguy
. You brag about 25 and out when in reality ups has paid enough where you should get so much more.




I think he was referring to the monthly payout ... and for one of the few times, I agree with Tieguy.

When the fund was in the red or in the green there has not been an increase to our pension in many many years.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Big, I do not remember this being discussed back during the contract, so I apologize if it was. Was this on the table then? Was everyone under the impression that the cs but out would cover you for the rest of your career/retirement? Or is this news to everyone that voted on it?

If this is new, i wonder how many people would have voted yes knowing what they now know?

I voted no. Most people, much like congress, voted yes on something without even reading it in it entirety. So sad.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

from the bottom of broken arrow up's posts

"A recession is when your neighbor lose his job. A depression is when you lose yours. A recovery is when Barack Obama loses his.


What was it called when for the last year of Bush's 2nd term? It wasn't even acknowledged until after the McCain Obama election, that the nation was in a recession that started in November of 2008. A whole year went by before the government's economists stated that that is when the recession started. I guess the republican administration didn't want to hinder McCain's candidacy anymore than he hindered it by himself.

The recession (according to the definition of a recession) didn't start until right about election time. But of course the liberal media was crying recession after one month of negative growth (domestic product). Its funny how the timing of that played out. It's also funny, or maybe I should say sad, how things escalated from there. Maybe because the average Joe believes what the news networks say? The liberal media wanted Obama in the White House so badly that they were willing to play on the gullibility of the general public to get him elected even if it meant helping damaging the economy in the process. Anyway....I'll save my soap box for the current events forum.

 

[trickpony1]

I would really like a straight answer from a knowledgeable person on this issue.

Because the contract was basically crammed down our throat in order to bail out CS does it mean that once the contract expires UPS has no more involvement and can do what it wants?

Some management posters are accusing TDU of twisting the facts. Of course these management posters aren't affected by or scheduled to retire on or about 2012.

What are the options once the contract expires?
1) UPS says "you are on your own"? or;
2) The current pension/insurance continues as is? or;
3) UPS takes over the health/welfare/pension possibly like the western region where, it is my understanding, retirees pay very little, if anything, for insurance.
4) UPS takes over the plan and makes severe changes to the detriment of retirees.

If you were due to retire just before the contract expires in 2012 what would you do? (multiple choice)
A) do nothing and accept what happens or;
B) retire just before the contract expires and hope you get a better deal than after the contract expires or;
C) wait until the contract expires and see if the company offers a decent retirement.

Serious answers only. I don't need the sarcasm and rhetoric.

 

[tieguy]

When the fund was in the red or in the green there has not been an increase to our pension in many many years.

I think maybe todays new pension laws are designed to affect some of the mismanagement of the past. Being the first to offer 25 and out may be a plum that turned sour on 804's ability to increase payouts in the future.

 

[pretzel_man]

I would really like a straight answer from a knowledgeable person on this issue.

Because the contract was basically crammed down our throat in order to bail out CS does it mean that once the contract expires UPS has no more involvement and can do what it wants?

Some management posters are accusing TDU of twisting the facts. Of course these management posters aren't affected by or scheduled to retire on or about 2012.

What are the options once the contract expires?
1) UPS says "you are on your own"? or;
2) The current pension/insurance continues as is? or;
3) UPS takes over the health/welfare/pension possibly like the western region where, it is my understanding, retirees pay very little, if anything, for insurance.
4) UPS takes over the plan and makes severe changes to the detriment of retirees.

If you were due to retire just before the contract expires in 2012 what would you do? (multiple choice)
A) do nothing and accept what happens or;
B) retire just before the contract expires and hope you get a better deal than after the contract expires or;
C) wait until the contract expires and see if the company offers a decent retirement.

Serious answers only. I don't need the sarcasm and rhetoric.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying this, but....

When the contract expires, the IBT and UPS will negotiate the next contract.

Pension benefits for the CS will be part of that negotiation. Unless the world drastically changes, CS UPSers will remain better off than they would have been with a multi employer plan.

The only difference I see is this. With a multi employer plan, the negotiation is on the amount of money UPS gives for each employee. I think thats defined as a defined contribution plan.

The plan may do well, or do poorly (as the CS plan did).

A single employer plan (like the one I have) is a defined benefit plan. The negotiation in this case would be focused around the amount of benefit awarded, not the amount of contribution.

As I said, I have a defined benefit plan because I'm in Management. Even in these dire economic times, UPS didn't reduce my pension. Of course, the company eliminated the 3% 401k match but that's technically not part of the pension plan.

I don't see any drastic things happening to the Teamster plan.

P-Man

 

[JonFrum]

P-Man,

The Single- and Mulit-Employer Pension Plans UPSers are in are DEFINED BENEFIT plans.

The 401(k) plans are DEFINED CONTRIBUTION plans.

What confuses everyone is that both types of plans have contributions and benefits, so the legal terms are hard to keep straight.

 

[pretzel_man]

P-Man,

The Single- and Mulit-Employer Pension Plans UPSers are in are DEFINED BENEFIT plans.

The 401(k) plans are DEFINED CONTRIBUTION plans.

What confuses everyone is that both types of plans have contributions and benefits, so the legal terms are hard to keep straight.

Jon:

From UPS' perspective, isn't the multi employer plan a defined contribution plan? What I mean is UPS is responsible to contribute to the plan, but not responsible for the benefit the employee derives?

I admit this isn't my strongest area of knowledge.

P-Man

 

[Jones]

Maybe I'm oversimplifying this, but....

When the contract expires, the IBT and UPS will negotiate the next contract.

Pension benefits for the CS will be part of that negotiation. Unless the world drastically changes, CS UPSers will remain better off than they would have been with a multi employer plan.
P-Man

If you had said "central states" instead of "multi-employer" I would agree with you. There are several multi employer plans that I know of, and likely some that I don't, that have a much higher payout than the UPS plan.