Contract language I'd like to see

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by soberups, Feb 28, 2009.

  1. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    Proposed contract language I'd like to see:


    1. Unless clear proof of gross negligence is shown,the following shall not be construed as chargeable accidents for the purposes of disciplinary action:

    a- Incidental, minor contact between package cars parked indoors if the Employers normal practice is to park such cars less than two (2) inches from one another.

    b-Cracked mirrors or scratches resulting from contact with tree branches or shrubbery at night, provided that said branches or shrubbery are protruding above the normal driving surface and above the area illuminated by the vehicle's headlights.

    c-Tire marks on grass or other landscaping that is level and contiguous with the normal driving surface, provided that said landscaping is (a) unmarked and (b) indistiguishable from the driving surface due to being covered with snow, ice, mud, sand, gravel or fallen leaves.

    d-Becoming stuck or requiring a tow due to extreme weather conditions, provided that the vehicle has not been negligently driven off of the driving surface except as may be required to avoid collisions with other vehicles.

    e-Becoming stuck or requiring a tow due to soft gravel or sand on the driving surface that a reasonable person would believe to be capable of supporting the weight of the vehicle.

    f-Minor cosmetic damage to the vehicle caused by tow chains, straps or other equipment used by the driver to attempt to get the vehicle unstuck, provided that the driver has first received management approval to make the attempt.

    g-Nothing in this Section shall be construed as requiring the Employer to issue any sort of safe driving award. Such awards shall only be issued at the sole discretion of the Employer.


    If we had this language, it would eliminate about 95% of the paperwork, grievances, follow-up rides, safety meetings hard feelings and other hassles associated with "accidents" without having any effect whatsoever on safety.
  2. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    More language I'd like to see...


    1. All language in this Article shall override and supersede any previous Articles.

    2. All full time employees shall be afforded the opportunity, but not be required, to take a one (1) hour lunch between the 3rd and 5th hour of their shift from January 1st through November 30th of each year.

    3. All full time employees shall be afforded the opportunity but not be required to take a one half (1/2) hour lunch between the 3rd and 5th hour of their shift during from December 1st through December 31st of each year.

    4. Employees may choose to take their lunch at any other point during their shift provided that they have received management approval. Such approval shall not be arbitrarily or unreasonably witheld.

    5. Compliance with any state or local laws concerning mandatory meal or rest periods shall be the sole responsibility of the employee.

    6. The Employer shall not be allowed to coerce or solicit employees into working off of the clock, skipping their meal or rest periods, or taking their meal or rest periods at any time other than between the 3rd and 5th hour.
    Employees shall in all cases be paid for all hours worked.

    7. Employees shall be allowed to drive a reasonable distance off of their normal delivery trace in order to find meal or restroom facilities.

    8. Employees who are unable to locate suitable meal facilities on their route will be allowed to idle the Employers vehicle during their meal period when climatic conditions require the employee to use the vehicle heater or defroster.

    9. Employees will be allowed to operate the Employers vehicle during their meal period for personal reasons, provided that they have received prior management approval. Such approval shall not be arbitrarily or unreasonably witheld. Employees who are operating the Employers vehicle during an unpaid meal period shall be deemed to be on duty if said vehicle is involved in an accident.

    10. Employees shall, on an exception only basis and with management approval, be allowed to drive the Employers vehicle out of their normal delivery area during their meal period for the purposes of doctor appointments, school meetings or other urgent personal issues. Employees who drive the Employers vehicle for such purposes shall document and report the total number of miles driven, and shall remit to the company the sum of $1 for every mile driven, to be automatically deducted from the next paycheck. Employees shall deduct the total amount of miles driven for personal reasons from the ending odometer reading so as not to affect the planned dispatch for that day, and such deduction shall not be construed as dishonesty or falsification of records. Employees who operate the Employers vehicle for such purposes shall be deemed to be on duty if said vehicle is involved in an accident.


    If we had this language, there would be no more lunch skipping BS. We could decide for ourselves when and where to eat as long as service was not affected. The company would have the ability to allow us to drive off route to doctors appointments or school conferences, which is a win/win as it will reduce sick calls and staffing problems by allowing us to take care of stuff that would otherwise require a day off. If we had family or personal stuff going on after work we could skip lunch without falsifying records, affecting plan/paid day, or costing ourselves pay and benefits. And a guy with nowhere to eat on his route who brings his lunch from home can run the heater during the winter without getting hassled by the Telematics Nazis.
  3. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    All good suggestions, what are the odds that they may become officail language? 100,000 to 1 ?
  4. local804

    local804 Well-Known Member

    Not be required to take lunch would open a whole new can of worms for the guys who take them. They will play the favoritism game more than they do now. I would rather see everyone take them or no one take them. I like everything else.
    btw Laws re lunch will always supercede any ups contract language
  5. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    If you take a moment to reread Sober's excellent post, you will see that he is not saying that we should not take our lunch. He is simply suggesting that we not be required to take our lunch between the 3rd and 5th hours as we are now contractually obligated to and that we be allowed to take it when it better for us to do so. Our mgt team does not really care when we take our lunch as long as we do so (or at least as long as we record one in the DIAD) and Sober's suggestion would actually help them. I personally take my lunch later in the afternoon when it is more convenient for me.
  6. local804

    local804 Well-Known Member

    Ah My bad upstateNY.
    The problem is there is too many posts and too little time. Everytime I sit down on this computer the wife or child find things for us to do.Not enough hours in my day:( .Well off now to Kmart.
  7. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Article 54
    Discharge and suspension.

    The Employer shall not discharge or suspend any employee without just cause. No employee shall be suspended or discharged
    without first being verbally warned and the warning being documented, except for the following offenses:
    a) Dishonesty; Proven dishonesty
    (b) Drinking of, or under the influence of alcoholic beverages ​
    [FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold](as specified in Article 35 herein above) [/FONT][/FONT]or narcotics during the workday;
    (c) Personal possession or the use of drugs, marijuana or L.S.D. during the work day;
    (d) Gross negligence resulting in a serious accident as defined in Article 18. Proven gross negligence
    (e) The carrying of unauthorized passengers while on the job;
    (f) Failure to report an accident;
    (g) A runaway accident; I would scratch this out and have proven gross negligence apply!
    (h) Sexual harassment;

    (i) Fighting on the job.

    This is a great thread, and sober you have some really well thought out proposals. Please submit them during the contract talk process. Hopefully we will have someone else negotiating on our behalf!

  8. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    I dont know about your guys states but up here the state law is lunch has to be taken after the 4th hour of work and started before 6th

    HEFFERNAN Huge Member

    Article 500 - accidents - C,D, and E would never fly

    The others are reasonable and should be part of the contract

    If C,D,and E were in a contract, drivers would not make good judgement calls on driveway deliveries, (maybe even on purpose). I think having the drivers responsible for driveway use is essential for unneccessary stupid errors. D and E, the driver should just sheet as emergency condition if the driveway is undeliverable. C, we should be held responsible for driving off driveway and causing property damage. Granted, maybe 10% don't care if you ruin their grass, but the other 90% would call UPS in less than a minute when they find out.
  10. rod

    rod retired and happy

    A State Law? I would have to see that one on the books to believe it. Not saying it can't be because we all know of some goofy state laws. I would believe a law that says a break must be given after working so long ---but at a specific time? Can't see that happening.
  11. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Alaska has lunch police?! You tell Sarah Palin she can come down here and "arrest" me anytime!! I might not even resist.:wink2:
  12. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    Bear in mind that, under this proposal, the company could still charge the driver with an accident and withhold a safe driving award....they simply cannot use it for disciplinary purposes unless clear proof of gross negligence is shown.

    A driver who makes a tire mark on grass that he cannot see under snow or leaves should not have his job threatened. A driver who cracks a mirror on an unseen branchn in the dark should not have his job threatened. Incidents of this nature should not be categorized as "accidents" in the same sense as getting into a collision with another vehicle or person.
  13. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    I drive up hundreds, if not thousands, of driveways during the year.

    99.99% of the time, I make good decisions and make service on the package.

    .001% of the time, **** happens, and I still make service on the package.

    A 1/2 mile long driveway can look just fine from the bottom, but then you go uphill around 2 or 3 hairpin turns only to find a downed tree....or an abandoned car....or a mud pit that wasnt there 4 months ago the last time you were up there. Or its November and both the driveway and the ground on either side of it are covered with 6" of leaves or snow.

    I could make a real easy living by sheeting half of my stops as "emergency condtions" and just bringing them back to the building if I wanted to.

    That isnt what our customers are paying for.

    HEFFERNAN Huge Member

    We are told not to go on residential driveways PERIOD !
    It isn't even an option. This puts the driver in the position they want.


    A - Take package from street and walk up driveway to house
    B - Drive up driveway and be risked to discipline if anything happens

    Your 500-c,d,e violates what they tell us. You can't take option B and be not held accountable which means discipline. Trust me, I drive my truck on driveways also. But I am taking the risk, the company isn't and that is what they want in the first place.

    Also, I am not a fan of sheeting emergency condition either. I only use if driveway is too long and unpassable for that day. Plus, How many driveways did you get that truck up during peak this year. :happy-very:I'm in New England where we are used to snow and see plenty of it.
  15. 1989

    1989 Well-Known Member

    This is Washinton state lunch law:


    ½ hour, if work period is more than 5 consecutive hours, to be given not less than 2 hours nor more than 5 hours from beginning of shift. Counted as worktime if employee is required to remain on duty on premises or at a prescribed worksite. Additional ½ hour, before or during overtime, for employees working 3 or more hours beyond regular workday.

    If you don't sign a waiver you must take another 30 minutes after 11 hours of work. If you don't start your lunch before the 5th hour you will be disciplined and eventually terminated. Because you violated state law.
  16. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    On some rural routes, the "driveways" are miles long. Walking them all is not a viable option.

    The phrase "stay out of residential driveways" refers to urban residential areas where it is possible to park on the street and walk in, rather than risk an accident by driving onto the property and turning around.

    I guess it boils down to semantics. In a rural area, a 1/2 mile long driveway isnt a "driveway" any more, it is an "access road".

    I agree with staying out of residential driveways. However, I am physically incapable of walking off 20 miles a day of rural "access roads", nor is there any valid reason for attempting to do so.
  17. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    I heard 100 feet you should walk them off. per DM
  18. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    100 feet is barely more than home plate to first base. You can walk that off in less time than it would take to drive in and turn around.

    Even 200 feet is a quick and easy walk.

    Its when we are talking about driveways that are many hundreds of yards long....or when the "parcel" is a 400 lb. Pottery Barn complete living room set...that the old "stay out of residential driveways" rule needs to be reevaluated on the basis of common sense.

    The company has made a business decision to offer delivery service to every residential address in the USA, and to accept packages up to 150 lbs in weight.

    You cannot offer such service while at the same time mandating that all drivers stay out of all driveways under all situations.

    Therefore, common sense requires that the occasional tire mark or cracked mirror be tolerated as part of the cost of offering service.
  19. upsdude

    upsdude Well-Known Member

    May in some situations be very unsafe.