denied workmans comp

RustyPMcG

Well-Known Member
UPS is self insured. That means that they -UPS- not your state BWC gets to call the tune so to speak.

It's irrelevant if they're self-insured or not. It doesn't matter whether the insurance company is doing the insuring, or just administrating the claims. Workers comp rules come from the state, and the insurance companies and administrators have to follow state laws and regulations.

When an appeal involves large medical bills, and significant lost wages, an attorney who specializes in workers comp cases should be consulted. The only real question left at this point is how much of the leg work should be done by the employee, and how much should the attorney and his/her staff do.

The range can be anywhere from just getting advice from the attorney, and then doing all the work one's self, to just handing it all over to the attorney, and letting them do all the work.

One thing to remember is that none of this is personal. It's all about money, and money is not personal. Stay logical; keep emotions to a minimum. Find the applicable state laws and regulations. Gather the proper documentation. Anticipate what laws and regulations the other side will cite, and what documentation they'll bring, and be able to show why their law and/or regulation isn't the applicable one, or why their documentation doesn't support their position.

The people who make the decision hear sad stories all the time, and they've seen people in horrible conditions. Trying to appeal to their emotions without having a logical case supported by law will just get pushback. They've got their own problems, and they're dealing with other people with problems all day long. They do not want to take your problem home. They will put up an emotional wall if you don't give them a case built on the law.

"Who" doesn't matter. The insurance company, whether acting as an insurer or administrator doesn't matter. UPS doesn't matter. The center manager doesn't matter. People in offices in Atlanta don't matter, either. None of it is personal. It's just the law and money. That's all.
 

22.34life

Well-Known Member
not to be coldhearted or anything but 3 months seems a little excessive.i mean you had a gun pointed at you and were robbed but now its over,process it and move on,and yes i have had a gun pointed at me before.there is a scene in the movie patton you should watch,it will explain everything to you.
 

stevetheupsguy

sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
not to be coldhearted or anything but 3 months seems a little excessive.i mean you had a gun pointed at you and were robbed but now its over,process it and move on,and yes i have had a gun pointed at me before.there is a scene in the movie patton you should watch,it will explain everything to you.
Not to be, or sorry that I am, cold hearted?
 

safety1st

Member
PTSD is real. Some can get past it some can not. Keep getting help & a good WC lawyer most WC lawyers also handle SSDI claims. SSDI approved me in ten weeks time. Not sure where you are at but for me once I was approved for SSDI I was able to get a disabilty pension too with no questions asked. Then the laywer got me set for life with the WC claim. Good luck to you. Keep getting help. Hope the best for you.
 

tardus

Well-Known Member
Since you have internet access, a good place to start is looking up the workman's comp law for your particular state. I was horrified to discover that in my state injuries related to the back, neck or spine are specifically excluded.
 

RustyPMcG

Well-Known Member
Since you have internet access, a good place to start is looking up the workman's comp law for your particular state. I was horrified to discover that in my state injuries related to the back, neck or spine are specifically excluded.

No they're not.

They're not "scheduled" injuries. "Scheduled" means there's a chart (aka schedule) with a list of injuries and the standard, flat-rate amount that will be paid for them.

For example, you lose one finger, they give you $x, and everyone moves on. You lose your arm below the elbow, it's a different dollar amount, but again a flat rate.

Back and neck injuries are hard to put a flat amount on. A back injury could be just annoying, or it could mean 100% disablity. Thus they aren't scheduled.

Not being scheduled doesn't mean they aren't covered.
 

UPSGUY72

Well-Known Member
No they're not.

They're not "scheduled" injuries. "Scheduled" means there's a chart (aka schedule) with a list of injuries and the standard, flat-rate amount that will be paid for them.

For example, you lose one finger, they give you $x, and everyone moves on. You lose your arm below the elbow, it's a different dollar amount, but again a flat rate.

Back and neck injuries are hard to put a flat amount on. A back injury could be just annoying, or it could mean 100% disablity. Thus they aren't scheduled.

Not being scheduled doesn't mean they aren't covered.

It used to be that way here in MA but not anymore. You have to fight for every dime there are no set rates anymore. I know this as I have a case against a homeowner for a dog bite and my lawyer said that before they changed the rules I would have been able to get paid by workmans comp based on the size of the scare. Now I have to wait 6 months to a year and see how big the scare is and then see a plastic sergeon to get cost to fix it and then sue the homeowner.
 

RustyPMcG

Well-Known Member
It used to be that way here in MA but not anymore. You have to fight for every dime there are no set rates anymore. I know this as I have a case against a homeowner for a dog bite and my lawyer said that before they changed the rules I would have been able to get paid by workmans comp based on the size of the scare. Now I have to wait 6 months to a year and see how big the scare is and then see a plastic sergeon to get cost to fix it and then sue the homeowner.

We're not talking about the same thing here.

I'm talking about workers comp insurance coverage. You're talking about lawsuit settlements against third-parties.

(And while homeowners insurance companies may have routinely handled dog bites, it wouldn't have been anything scheduled under any law.)

When you're injured on duty, there are a number of sources of money:

1. Workers comp insurance covering actual medical expenses. It only has to be shown that it was an injury, and that the injury happened in the course of one's employment. If there is any dispute, your health insurance can pay, but they will be reimbursed by the workers comp insurance once it's determined that it was an on the job injury.

2. Workers comp also covers lost time during treatment, and rehabilitation from an on the job injury. An employer can substitute an "injury pay" benefit, as long as it offers better benefits than what's mandated by the state.

3. Once the worker has been rehabilitated as completely as practical, Workers Comp then covers any remaining "disablity". Things like missing digits or apendates (and death, too) are, in most states, "scheduled", and thus a flat rate is paid as settlement in full. Other injuries that result in partial lifetime disablities have to be rated (what percent of a disablity does one have), and then that number is used in a formula to determine the likely lifetime lost earning potential, and that is the settlement for that.

Note that the *employer* is only liable to the limits of Workers Comp. You can't get more out of your employer for your injury. But you can sue a third party, and that's where (to be a little crass), the real money is.

So if you're injured in a motor vehicle accident, you can sue the other driver (and their insurance company). However, keep in mind that Workers Comp may need to be reimbursed first, and you only get what's left after that.

So if you're injured on the job, always look for other parties to sue. If you're using some equipment, the manufacturer of the equipment is a target. If you're injured on someone else's property, the property owner and their insurance company is a target. If someone assults you, they may be a target. But targets are only good targets if you can recoup enough to reimburse Workers Comp for what they'll want back.

In the situation that started this thread, the issue is getting Workers Comp to recognise that an on-the-job injury has taken place. It sounds like we're talking PSTD, but I don't want to assume the diagnosis of the doctor. Once Workers Comp can be convinced it's an on the job injury, they will reimburse any medical costs paid out of pocket, or by health insurance. They'll also pay any lost time, reimbursing the company for any vacation, sick leave, or other paid time off taken (including STD and/or LTD), and those entitlements will be returned to the employee's balance. Once a plateau in treatment is reached, that is, no further material progress is expected, then Workers Comp will need to negotiate a level of disablity -- that is, a shortfall in potential lifetime earnings as a result of the injury. (I would expect this to be zero, or close to zero. Sorry.) But they may offer a settlement so any time there is a relapse they won't have to debate whether it's a reinjury.

The guy who pointed the gun could also be sued, but let's face it: He probably doesn't have any money, and if he did, it probably wouldn't be enough to reimburse Workers Comp. But if it was found that the gun he used was illegally bought from a dealer who didn't excercise due care in selling the gun, there's a deep pocket that could potentially be sued. (Note that they could be sued whether or not Workers Comp calls it an on the job injury. But if it wasn't an on the job injury, and health insurance fronted the money for care, they could want to be reimbursed first.)
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
....Sorry, I must have dozed off halfway through that novel...

The last paragraph did catch my eye. I would have to agree that suing the guy who pointed the gun would be a waste of time; however, I would think that suing the gun dealer would be a stretch as well. What is the dealer supposed to do, tell every person who purchases a gun not to use it in the course of any illegal activity? That's along the lines of the McDonald's manager who is suing his employer for his weight gain while employed there, saying that he felt it his duty to promote the brand by eating every meal while working there.

I have never been the victim of a crime in which a firearm was used so I cannot comment on his mental state or whether this should be a comp claim or not. The OP needs to hire a lawyer.
 

stevetheupsguy

sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
....Sorry, I must have dozed off halfway through that novel...

The last paragraph did catch my eye. I would have to agree that suing the guy who pointed the gun would be a waste of time; however, I would think that suing the gun dealer would be a stretch as well. What is the dealer supposed to do, tell every person who purchases a gun not to use it in the course of any illegal activity? That's along the lines of the McDonald's manager who is suing his employer for his weight gain while employed there, saying that he felt it his duty to promote the brand by eating every meal while working there.

I have never been the victim of a crime in which a firearm was used so I cannot comment on his mental state or whether this should be a comp claim or not. The OP needs to hire a lawyer.
It's funny how rude you can be to people, even when they haven't been rude to YOU.

I found the post to be informative, as well as enlightening. Your post, on the other hand, really doesn't say anything. You blather on about things that get your goat, but really don't say much of anything. I think you could use some more "real world" experience, so that you could start empathizing with people, instead of being abusive.

BTW, I think it would be a good start, if gun dealer's started covering their butt's by telling people not to use the weapon for criminal purposes. There are all sorts of warnings on everyday things like, cigarett's, cribs, so why not firearm's?
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Suppose the gun dealer does everything right. He does the required background check and completes the required paperwork. He completes the sale, fully unaware that he has just completed a "straw purchase". A straw purchase is one in which the original purchase was made with the intent of then reselling the weapon illegally. Should the gun dealer who has fully complied with the law and made the sale in good faith then be held liable for the subsequent resale and illegal use of the weapon?
 

RustyPMcG

Well-Known Member
(Let's remember this is theoretical. The guy with the gun would need to be caught, the gun found, the source of the gun traced, and some irregularity involving the dealer found. It was offered as an example of how a third-party could be sued, and not offered as advice.)

When you're injured, YOUR goal is to restore some sort of wellness back into your life, and while money can't buy happiness, it can buy things that can aid in easing your pain. Or even groceries if you can't work. Overall social issues, and political principles are irrelevant to your personal decison.

Whatever your view on the regulating of firearm sales are would be irrelevant if you are having a difficult time holding a family sustaining job because of your injury. Others may have a different perspective because they're not the one injured. But the injured person (through his attorney) should be looking for ways to replace income lost because of the injury, even if some outsiders think that this or that is a stretch.
 

happybob

Feeders
It is common practice for workers comp claims to be denied at UPS. The denial, only guessing here, was made by UPS's workers comp adminstator, not UPS or your state. A workers comp claim is a tedious process, someone that has prior experiance with a previous claim, or is a workers comp lawyer, can navigate the process much easier than soneone that hasn't been there and done that. You should have no problem finding a law firm to handle your case, please contact one as soon as possible. The clock is ticking on how long you have to file an appeal of the denial.
 
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