discuss: do unions promote laziness?

Mike Hawk

Well-Known Member
Getting into a pissing contest about who moves more freight faster and calling people names over the internet really showes you maturity Indy135.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
cuz we all know its much harder for a company to fire a union employee for something trivial then it is for a non union employee

That isnt necessarily true.

A non-union employee can get away with quite a bit...if he is one of management's "special" people who sucks up all the time.

A union contract simply levels the playing field and makes each sides rights and responsibilities clear and unambiguous. This makes for a more professional enviornment to work in.

As far as "promoting laziness" goes....UPS is not an enviornment that allows for laziness, union contract or not.
 

tieguy

Banned
man you guys are tough.

Its really a great question. UPS has built its legacy on the superior work ethic of its employees but yet the union does defend and is used more by those who are slackers.

Another phase of the original question might be does the union wages attract better people with the strong work ethic or does the union somehow promote the work ethic.

(now digging my bunker and preparing to dodge grenades)
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
I don't think that the Teamsters, or any other union, promotes laziness but I do believe that some people get away with being lazy because they know that its damn near impossible for them to get fired for it. In fact, some sups don't even bother with write ups because they know that suspensions and getting them fired would simply amount to nothing more than an unpaid vacation (sometimes they are practically paid vacations if they get their jobs back with back pay) for these people. During my short decade (and counting) of employment at UPS I've seen these types of employees in three different UPS buildings that I've been in and also at two other union jobs I've had prior to UPS. So, lets just face the facts here.....unions don't promote laziness but they sure as hell don't deter it either.


I agree 100%.

Also have worked 3 buildings, and there are surely slow and/or easy going people everywhere.

Sometimes it's not lazy but personality. Those that are management, hell-bent UPS (or shall we say) go-getter company types can see this lack of urgency as lazy.

It all depends. You know when someone is dogging it by past performance, more or less. T
 

Backlasher

Stronger, Faster, Browner
think about it from my perspective

when i was 18 i worked at a CVS distribution center in indianapolis....on the shipping dock, and we worked our asses off....freight flying at you down conveyor belts, hot as hell in summer cold as :censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2: in the winter....for $9.65 an hour, non union...if you were too slow, they fire you or really discipline you until you can meet the quota

of course this job was non union....if they had unionized the pay would be more and the work load would be more realistic i guarantee it

now do you get what im saying? there are workers at ups freight roadway yellow usf holland that sit on forklifts all day and make the $23.00 an hour top pay...at CVS the highest paid guy at 17 years in and made $12.25




Wow, are they still hiring??? I will start today!!!!:happy-very:
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
You claimed to have drank 200 ounces of water while in the trailers. That's 12.5 gallons- are you sure you know what you are talking about?

There are 128 oz per gallon.

He said he drank 2 gallons. That is reasonable if you are sweating a lot.

Maybe you were thinking of cups, not ounces.
 

But Benefits Are Great!

Just Words On A Screen
Unions do not promote laziness. You already know that.

However, some of the replies are interesting.

Union shops protect the weak. Non-Union shops reward the strong.

In a non-union shop (otherwise known as "reality") those who do well are rewarded, those who fail are discarded. This makes companies strong

In a union shop (otherwise known as "socialism") you just need to somehow get the job in the first place and not screw up too bad, and you have a job for life. Plus you get great prices on Gatorade.
 

JustTired

free at last.......
Ok, here's my take........

First, let me say that I've worked as a Teamster (UPS package) and as a UAW member (automotive).

As a member of the UAW, I would have answered 'yes' to your question. That job left a 'bad taste' in my mouth for unions when I left it.

Then I went to work for UPS. Totally different situation. You can not be lazy at UPS and get away with it. That being said...there are ways you can appear to be lazy. When you've got runners out there skipping lunch and breaks, speeding and otherwise taking unsafe shortcuts....they can make the driver who follows the rules appear to be underachieving (lazy?).

Don't get me wrong. I've seen some drivers do some pretty boneheaded things and thought they deserved to lose their jobs. Yet they still kept them. What they did, for the most part, had nothing to do with being lazy. Just poor judgement to say the least.

I'm not saying that there aren't situations and places that a Teamster can't get away with being lazy. I'm saying that from my experience as a package driver, it would be highly unlikely that you could get away with it.

If I was coming from UPS freight...I might feel different. Who knows!
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
Tired posed a different perspective, one i have seen, but can not comment on due to lack of true first hand knowledge. Seen the people be lazy, but dont know if it really is that way all day. my guess is with the UAW, it promotes the lazy. after all, where can you get laid off and still draw 95% of your wage.

as for the teamsters at ups, this is my observation.

laziness is something you have when you put your application in. it is your mindset and personality. those that are not lazy, would not be either way, with our without the union. those that are, will forever be that way, with or without the union.

what unions do is to discourage personal excellence each and every day. while ups usually will not keep someone around that is always lazy. i day usually, because we have several in our center that are and have always been that way. but they are the exception.

i also find that laziness "rubs off" on other employees more than those that try to achieve excellence. another reason why those that under produce regularly do not last long.

so no, unionism at ups does not promote laziness. but it can and does at times protect those who are, at the same time discouraging personal excellence.

d
 

barnyard

KTM rider
I believe that unions at UPS promotes excellence up and down the chain. The unions have negotiated a wage and benefit package that the employees want and are working hard to keep. Managers have to have the productivity to be profitable with the higher costs. UPS is a profitable company, everyone from loaders to managers must be doing their jobs.

We have a non-union regional delivery company in my area. They pay about 1/2 our hourly and a much smaller benefit package. Conversations I have with their drivers, they are waaay less productive, have more accidents and I would imagine, lower profits (private company, so no way to know.)

They have drivers that routinely bring unattempted stops back. That does not happen in my building.

Several years ago, there was an attempt to organize the company. The owner said, "If a union is voted in, I will close this company." Whatever.

I suspect that if a union would have been approved, he would have increased productivity to match his increased costs. He would have also had lower turnover (currently, a cut driver waits less than 1 year for a route), lower turnover increases productivity as well.

Higher labor costs would result in raising the bar for potential employees also.

I do read about examples where managers have made horrendous mistakes in negotiating contracts and I think that the UAW is the best example of that. If there are ways for a company to improve productivity with technology, I am all for it.

I believe that if Fed Ex were to unionize, that it would be an even more formidable competitor. There are enough exUPS managers there, that they know what needs to be done.

TB
 
I believe that if Fed Ex were to unionize, that it would be an even more formidable competitor. There are enough exUPS managers there, that they know what needs to be done.

TB
You're kidding right? The current UPS managers either don't know what needs to be done or won't do it.
 

barnyard

KTM rider
You're kidding right? The current UPS managers either don't know what needs to be done or won't do it.

Nope.

UPS is still a profitable company. That means that somewhere along the line, a bunch of people are doing the right thing, both union and management.

I'll grant that there are examples of extreme stupidity, but what company does not have that??

TB
 

Mike Hawk

Well-Known Member
Sure unions promote laziness, without the union supes could work and they would to make their numbers, but since we have the union they are reduces to sitting in the office aka being lazy.
 

But Benefits Are Great!

Just Words On A Screen
I believe that unions at UPS promotes excellence up and down the chain. The unions have negotiated a wage and benefit package that the employees want and are working hard to keep. Managers have to have the productivity to be profitable with the higher costs. UPS is a profitable company, everyone from loaders to managers must be doing their jobs.

We have a non-union regional delivery company in my area. They pay about 1/2 our hourly and a much smaller benefit package. Conversations I have with their drivers, they are waaay less productive, have more accidents and I would imagine, lower profits (private company, so no way to know.)

They have drivers that routinely bring unattempted stops back. That does not happen in my building.

Several years ago, there was an attempt to organize the company. The owner said, "If a union is voted in, I will close this company." Whatever.

I suspect that if a union would have been approved, he would have increased productivity to match his increased costs. He would have also had lower turnover (currently, a cut driver waits less than 1 year for a route), lower turnover increases productivity as well.

Higher labor costs would result in raising the bar for potential employees also.

I do read about examples where managers have made horrendous mistakes in negotiating contracts and I think that the UAW is the best example of that. If there are ways for a company to improve productivity with technology, I am all for it.

I believe that if Fed Ex were to unionize, that it would be an even more formidable competitor. There are enough exUPS managers there, that they know what needs to be done.

TB

It is rude to not share, didn't your mom teach you that? So whatever you are smoking, please pass it around - it's obviously excellent :censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2:.
 

Work right slow and safe

Well-Known Member
I don't think that the Teamsters, or any other union, promotes laziness but I do believe that some people get away with being lazy because they know that its damn near impossible for them to get fired for it. In fact, some sups don't even bother with write ups because they know that suspensions and getting them fired would simply amount to nothing more than an unpaid vacation (sometimes they are practically paid vacations if they get their jobs back with back pay) for these people. During my short decade (and counting) of employment at UPS I've seen these types of employees in three different UPS buildings that I've been in and also at two other union jobs I've had prior to UPS. So, lets just face the facts here.....unions don't promote laziness but they sure as hell don't deter it either.

This is true we have a 25 sorters and about 10 of them will make the unloader stop to check the scores or send a text to someone or talk on the phone all night long
on the metro side if a manager piss on an unloader he will move slow and take his time this happends every night then I will need to take a metro from him to a different line and give the guy that is a hard worker more work to get the job done
 

JustTired

free at last.......
I believe that if Fed Ex were to unionize, that it would be an even more formidable competitor. There are enough exUPS managers there, that they know what needs to be done.

You're kidding right? The current UPS managers either don't know what needs to be done or won't do it.

I think barnyard has a point.

I think "current UPS managers" know what needs to be done and can't do it. By that I mean they are not allowed to do it. Those that took the 'bull by the horns' and made decisions (not always right, btw) are a thing of the past. We are in an era where "micro-management" is the mantra.

Some have left in disgust. Others have been "let go". I'm sure some have made their way to Fed-ex. If allowed to "manage" there, they very well could make Fed-ex even more formidable. So I think the point is valid.
 
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