Don't Retire before the next contract-Pension Cuts loom

browned out

Well-Known Member
This may have been posted already but this is the first I have heard of this tough fact.

Any full time drivers who retire or retired after 2008 have pensions that are contractually (for the contract that expires in 2018 ONLY) protected even if the Central States cuts benefits. That I knew.

What I did not know is there is no Grandfathered in clause. In 2018, when the new contract is negotiated; The pension "make whole" clause will have to again be negotiated in. Drivers and other full time UPS hourlies' who retired after 2008 could face the same drastic cuts as UPSers who retired before 2008.

What happens if (when) UPS throws some incentive (bonus, raise, shorter progression, etc) at the newer drivers who have NO vested time in the Central States Pension because they started driving after UPS withdrew from Central States.

Why would the newer drivers care about us old timers' pensions?

Few, if any, of the drivers that voted on the 2013 contract had a second thought about the clause that protected only UPS full timers that retired after 2008. . We allowed the pension cuts that may be coming to be imposed on friends and mentors we worked with for years.

Don't retire and don't take a buyout until the next contract is passed. You will at least still have a vote or be able to keep working at UPS if your pension is cut.

Call you local union reps and ask them. Ask them if our Central States make up provision pensions are guaranteed after this contract. Call your retired colleagues and let them know this could very well be coming down the pike.

Maybe we can stop this from happening to us. Hopefully the UPSers who retired prior to 2008 do not have their benefits cut.
 

realbrown1

Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
This may have been posted already but this is the first I have heard of this tough fact.

Any full time drivers who retire or retired after 2008 have pensions that are contractually (for the contract that expires in 2018 ONLY) protected even if the Central States cuts benefits. That I knew.

What I did not know is there is no Grandfathered in clause. In 2018, when the new contract is negotiated; The pension "make whole" clause will have to again be negotiated in. Drivers and other full time UPS hourlies' who retired after 2008 could face the same drastic cuts as UPSers who retired before 2008.

What happens if (when) UPS throws some incentive (bonus, raise, shorter progression, etc) at the newer drivers who have NO vested time in the Central States Pension because they started driving after UPS withdrew from Central States.

Why would the newer drivers care about us old timers' pensions?

Few, if any, of the drivers that voted on the 2013 contract had a second thought about the clause that protected only UPS full timers that retired after 2008. . We allowed the pension cuts that may be coming to be imposed on friends and mentors we worked with for years.

Don't retire and don't take a buyout until the next contract is passed. You will at least still have a vote or be able to keep working at UPS if your pension is cut.

Call you local union reps and ask them. Ask them if our Central States make up provision pensions are guaranteed after this contract. Call your retired colleagues and let them know this could very well be coming down the pike.

Maybe we can stop this from happening to us. Hopefully the UPSers who retired prior to 2008 do not have their benefits cut.
UPSers have already proven that they will throw their union brothers under the bus for a few crumbs like the last contract.

I think those retirees are screwed if H is still in power.

H will let UPS bribe younger workers, and screw over the retirees to get the contract passed.

H has done this before.
 

PiedmontSteward

RTW-4-Less
This may have been posted already but this is the first I have heard of this tough fact.

Any full time drivers who retire or retired after 2008 have pensions that are contractually (for the contract that expires in 2018 ONLY) protected even if the Central States cuts benefits. That I knew.

What I did not know is there is no Grandfathered in clause. In 2018, when the new contract is negotiated; The pension "make whole" clause will have to again be negotiated in. Drivers and other full time UPS hourlies' who retired after 2008 could face the same drastic cuts as UPSers who retired before 2008.

What happens if (when) UPS throws some incentive (bonus, raise, shorter progression, etc) at the newer drivers who have NO vested time in the Central States Pension because they started driving after UPS withdrew from Central States.

Why would the newer drivers care about us old timers' pensions?

Few, if any, of the drivers that voted on the 2013 contract had a second thought about the clause that protected only UPS full timers that retired after 2008. . We allowed the pension cuts that may be coming to be imposed on friends and mentors we worked with for years.

Don't retire and don't take a buyout until the next contract is passed. You will at least still have a vote or be able to keep working at UPS if your pension is cut.

Call you local union reps and ask them. Ask them if our Central States make up provision pensions are guaranteed after this contract. Call your retired colleagues and let them know this could very well be coming down the pike.

Maybe we can stop this from happening to us. Hopefully the UPSers who retired prior to 2008 do not have their benefits cut.

Absolutely true, but I interpret this a little bit differently than you.

We don't have to "negotiate in" the CS Pension Clause, but it will be something the company tries to use to extract concessions from us just like they did with healthcare and the new 4 year FT progression during the negotiations for the 2013-2018 CBA. They'll likely go after two tier FT wages for drivers (which the company tried to propose in the last week or so of negotiations) or an even longer FT progression.
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
Any full time drivers who retire or retired after 2008 have pensions that are contractually (for the contract that expires in 2018 ONLY) protected even if the Central States cuts benefits. That I knew.


I would hope, everybody knows that.

I don't see that changing.


This may have been posted already but this is the first I have heard of this tough fact.

What I did not know is there is no Grandfathered in clause. In 2018, when the new contract is negotiated; The pension "make whole" clause will have to again be negotiated in. Drivers and other full time UPS hourlies' who retired after 2008 could face the same drastic cuts as UPSers who retired before 2008.


What ?

Who told you this ?


"The UPS/IBT Plan will recognize full-time service in the CS Plan for determining eligibility for the benefits in this section and will offset at Normal Retirement Age the benefits accrued from the CS Plan commencing at Normal Retirement Age. If the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset."


https://teamster.org/sites/teamster.org/files/6161478090_master_final.pdf


Are you saying....

The company can "retroactively" not honor previously agreed to, contract language ?

Or, are you just speculating ? (because of recent company statements)


UPS claims proposed Central States benefit reductions illegal | Business Insurance


Help me out.



-Bug-
 

trickpony1

Well-Known Member
Any full time drivers who retire or retired after 2008 have pensions that are contractually (for the contract that expires in 2018 ONLY) protected even if the Central States cuts benefits. That I knew.

I'm just a truck driver but.......

I would think that a driver that retired under this contract would be "contractually protected" regardless of what the next contract says or is forced down our throats?

I'm aware that I can work into 2018 if there are cuts but I don't want to work and then die.....I would like to enjoy retirement a little before I die.

It was brought to my attention that the company didn't say anything about this in the last contract which is concerning.
 

browned out

Well-Known Member
The company can just ------------------it out in the contract. It is ERISA pension law, the contract does not override it. It has to be negotiated in. If someone retired today. Their pension could be cut when the next contract goes into effect. One can not be grandfathered in.

If the pension cut clause was explained to us in the last contract negotiations; I would have urged everyone to have a pension protection article written in for all UPS employees regardless of the year they retired. They deserve it. It is a travesty.

Call your local or the Teamsters National in DC to confirm. This is my understanding.
 

trickpony1

Well-Known Member
Hey BUG.......
Before you unload on someone.....you might just give him a chance to offer his opinion.

No one really knows what's up.

Monkey Butt agreed with my post #6 which, usually, he doesn't agree to a lot of posts so what, exactly, was he agreeing to?.....assuming he knows something we don't.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Hey BUG.......
Before you unload on someone.....you might just give him a chance to offer his opinion.

No one really knows what's up.

Monkey Butt agreed with my post #6 which, usually, he doesn't agree to a lot of posts so what, exactly, was he agreeing to?.....assuming he knows something we don't.
It was brought to my attention that the company didn't say anything about this in the last contract which is concerning.

UPS don't miss much!
 

browned out

Well-Known Member
I would hope, everybody knows that.

I don't see that changing.





What ?

Who told you this ?


"The UPS/IBT Plan will recognize full-time service in the CS Plan for determining eligibility for the benefits in this section and will offset at Normal Retirement Age the benefits accrued from the CS Plan commencing at Normal Retirement Age. If the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset."


https://teamster.org/sites/teamster.org/files/6161478090_master_final.pdf


Are you saying....

The company can "retroactively" not honor previously agreed to, contract language ? EXACTLY OUR TEAMSTER SECRETARY TREASURE STATED SO. THE MAKE UP CAN BE RETROCATIVLY REMOVED. CALL YOUR REP AND FIND OUT. BETTER YET; CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVES IN CONGRESS AND MAKE SURE IT CAN'T HAPPEN.

Or, are you just speculating ? (because of recent company statements)


UPS claims proposed Central States benefit reductions illegal | Business Insurance


Help me out.



-Bug-
 

Signhere

Well-Known Member
look at Page 83 and 84 in Master under Article 34 this is a negotiating chess piece...by diverting funds to healthcare it lowers contributions to the pension fund....check your local supplement to see if it has passed and what it says ...call the hall
 

By The Book

Well-Known Member
look at Page 83 and 84 in Master under Article 34 this is a negotiating chess piece...by diverting funds to healthcare it lowers contributions to the pension fund....check your local supplement to see if it has passed and what it says ...call the hall
If you get a dollar, and take $.10 and put it towards healthcare, that leaves $.90 cents to go towards the raise and pension. Healthcare may need to be shored up just like the pension.
 

Signhere

Well-Known Member
If you get a dollar, and take $.10 and put it towards healthcare, that leaves $.90 cents to go towards the raise and pension. Healthcare may need to be shored up just like the pension.
It also lowers company contributions to the pensions so to make up that ten cents there will be a demand concessions somewhere ,,,and this is how the individual supplements to the master are bargained ...no free socks.....
 

By The Book

Well-Known Member
It also lowers company contributions to the pensions so to make up that ten cents there will be a demand concessions somewhere ,,,and this is how the individual supplements to the master are bargained ...no free socks.....
Can they take money from the wage increase and put it towards healthcare?, you ok with that? That would leave the pension contribution alone.
 

Signhere

Well-Known Member
Can they take money from the wage increase and put it towards healthcare?, you ok with that? That would leave the pension contribution alone.
they will use each stalemate piece as a bargaining chip..separately ...the big concern is health insurance coverge is going up...
 

By The Book

Well-Known Member
they will use each stalemate piece as a bargaining chip..separately ...the big concern is health insurance coverge is going up...
My point is if you don't make the healthcare fund solvent, it will have problems like many pension plans are now having. Are you saying that all the raise monies should only go for raises ?
 
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