DRA will be the death of express

[bbsam]

.
Here's where you prove your ignorance. The average Express courier has several different delivery commitments, which means no straightlining unless there is a National Service Disruption. Pickups is where it gets fun. Let's say I have a pickup area with multiple cutoffs, which vary from 1500 to 1600, but can vary more or less depending on the route, especially if it is extended area. So, in addition to my 10-15 regulars (house stops in UPS speak) I have 20 or more on-calls, which means that customers can call right up to the cutoff time and get a pickup the same day. This means that I have to get really creative to make it all work correctly. They can and often do call at 1459 or 1559 to buy themselves more time, or they call and want an early pickup or specific pickup time. Guess what? They will be told whatever they want to hear and we're supposed to "make it happen". I need to be able to work-in these pickups while I'm still trying to deliver all my SO before 1500 and P2 before 1700. It isn't rocket science, but it isn't easy either. Frankly, it's well beyond your average employee bbsam...I can assure you of that. Oh, and somewhere in there I need to get a full hour lunch, even when there is late freight.

This is where Ground folks don't "get it", and where Ground will fail miserably if and when they get real on-calls and real pickup routes. It's amazing how stupid some of these ISPs are when it comes to the differences between the opcos.

I assure you MFE, if you can do it, I can train my box monkeys to do it.

 

[MrFedEx]

I assure you MFE, if you can do it, I can train my box monkeys to do it.

Sorry Bub, but you can't.

 

[bbsam]

No, really. I am that good.

 

[!Retired!]

From what I've heard and seen, DRA only works in relatively low-density areas. The one thing to really consider is that it hasn't even come close to being fully implemented. In my district, only the largest station has it, and it is a complete abortion. Wait until they extend it everywhere.

DRA works in straight forward resi routes. When you start talking shortcuts, back roads not on maps, etc....that's when route/courier knowledge becomes a benefit.

I assure you MFE, if you can do it, I can train my box monkeys to do it.

Lol....

Sorry Bub, but you can't.

Don't put yourself to high on a pedestal. This isn't a hard job.

 

[mjtrackman]

I've been with Express for 4 months now and on the road for 2 as a swing driver. Worked 4 years at ground before making the switch. While DRA may not be beneficial to those have been on their "Same" route for years, it definitely helps a swing and a new guy like myself doing different routes everyday a TON!!! It has some flaws( has you crossing major streets multiple times) but it does help.

MFE

You can't ignore this. DRA might be a PITA for experienced couriers but Fred doesn't really care about them.

Unfortunately this maybe true. This DRA program was designed specifically to have anybody with the ability to drive a truck and read a map come on board and get results at a lower cost to the company. With me being a new guy it's helped me hop right in a be very productive, but I can understand how a veteran driver may not feel comfortable with the situation. With the company struggling, they are probably looking for ways to get rid of the vet and replace them with newer guys making a few dollars less per hour and still getting the results they want. It does suck because the vets are the ones who built relationships with customers over the years. That's the workforce for ya......Out with the old and in with the new.

 

[MrFedEx]

DRA works in straight forward resi routes. When you start talking shortcuts, back roads not on maps, etc....that's when route/courier knowledge becomes a benefit.

Lol....

Don't put yourself to high on a pedestal. This isn't a hard job.

I'm not saying that it is a "hard job" in general, but that it is compared to being a Ground driver. Do you really think the average Ground clown is going to be willing to do it? All of the accountability, expectations and the rest of it, for $12-$14 per hour? And there are plenty of Ground drivers who have "peaked" in terms of what they are capable of doing. If you've been around Express for awhile, you know that everyone isn't cut out for the job.

Even if bbsam thinks he can train his box monkeys to do it, how many of them will for the crap wages he is paying? You seem to be a know-it-all, so what kind of SPH are you getting from the new hires at your station? At mine, the newbies are capable of about half the productivity of an experienced courier, and most of them are leaving after a few weeks or at the most, a few months. Training and hiring are expensive too.

 

[thedownhillEXPRESS]

I'm not saying that it is a "hard job" in general, but that it is compared to being a Ground driver. Do you really think the average Ground clown is going to be willing to do it? All of the accountability, expectations and the rest of it, for $12-$14 per hour? And there are plenty of Ground drivers who have "peaked" in terms of what they are capable of doing. If you've been around Express for awhile, you know that everyone isn't cut out for the job.

Even if bbsam thinks he can train his box monkeys to do it, how many of them will for the crap wages he is paying? You seem to be a know-it-all, so what kind of SPH are you getting from the new hires at your station? At mine, the newbies are capable of about half the productivity of an experienced courier, and most of them are leaving after a few weeks or at the most, a few months. Training and hiring are expensive too.

Exactly the point of the article I posted in the thread
"Everything wrong with Express" yesterday

 

[MrFedEx]

Unfortunately this maybe true. This DRA program was designed specifically to have anybody with the ability to drive a truck and read a map come on board and get results at a lower cost to the company. With me being a new guy it's helped me hop right in a be very productive, but I can understand how a veteran driver may not feel comfortable with the situation. With the company struggling, they are probably looking for ways to get rid of the vet and replace them with newer guys making a few dollars less per hour and still getting the results they want. It does suck because the vets are the ones who built relationships with customers over the years. That's the workforce for ya......Out with the old and in with the new.

I'm not ignoring it. Overall, DRA has been an enormous failure...so far. Maybe they'll figure it out, but they've had quite awhile in the markets where it has been introduced...and it isn't working. I'm also fully aware that the plan is to plug basically anyone into a truck and set them loose with DRA. That really doesn't seem to be happening for them.

As I said, Express is a "dead man walking" IMO. It will slowly decline until it becomes unprofitable, at which time Ground profits will sustain it. For the time being, FedEx has to offer an overnight product to be competitive with the UPS suite of services, so Express has a reason to exist, just like Kinkos, because it fills a niche in the product line.

The Express opco is imploding, and it remains to be seen how upper management will respond to this fact. Given past history, I would expect it to hit rock bottom before anything changes.

 

[bbsam]

I'm not saying that it is a "hard job" in general, but that it is compared to being a Ground driver. Do you really think the average Ground clown is going to be willing to do it? All of the accountability, expectations and the rest of it, for $12-$14 per hour? And there are plenty of Ground drivers who have "peaked" in terms of what they are capable of doing. If you've been around Express for awhile, you know that everyone isn't cut out for the job.

Even if bbsam thinks he can train his box monkeys to do it, how many of them will for the crap wages he is paying? You seem to be a know-it-all, so what kind of SPH are you getting from the new hires at your station? At mine, the newbies are capable of about half the productivity of an experienced courier, and most of them are leaving after a few weeks or at the most, a few months. Training and hiring are expensive too.

You seem to be the raging know-it-all around here.

 

[MrFedEx]

You seem to be the raging know-it-all around here.

If you say so....I could really give a crap. Here's a question for you. How much more are you going to pay your drivers for the additional level of responsibility and more work? My educated guess is nothing, because that would drop the profit margin that Fred (and bbsam Inc.) are currently enjoying. Right? So more work for the same money...anyone recognize this tune?

 

[bbsam]

If you say so....I could really give a crap. Here's a question for you. How much more are you going to pay your drivers for the additional level of responsibility and more work? My educated guess is nothing, because that would drop the profit margin that Fred (and bbsam Inc.) are currently enjoying. Right? So more work for the same money...anyone recognize this tune?

That all depends on how much more work it actually turns out to be. Some who take on the challenge and put forth the effort, they always get paid more. Others, well, if I have to add drivers to get the work done because they can't or won't will see no increase in pay. Makes sense, doesn't it? Not all drivers are worth it.

 

[MrFedEx]

That all depends on how much more work it actually turns out to be. Some who take on the challenge and put forth the effort, they always get paid more. Others, well, if I have to add drivers to get the work done because they can't or won't will see no increase in pay. Makes sense, doesn't it? Not all drivers are worth it.

No matter what, you will be paying far less than the true market level of services rendered. This is the essence of the Ground model: "low wages, all the time." Is an Express courier worth $25 per hour or more. In my opinion, they are, because someone who actually knows what they are doing at $25 per hour is much more valuable than the 2 people you will need to hire to replace them. UPS knows this, FedEx does not.

Will some of your employee be sharp enough to be good Express couriers? Certainly. Will they do it for slightly more than you are currently paying? Maybe, but not for long. Who cares about a "challenge" with zero payoff? Even if you pay them more per hour, there are still no benefits, retirement, or career track at Ground.

 

[!Retired!]

I'm not saying that it is a "hard job" in general, but that it is compared to being a Ground driver. Do you really think the average Ground clown is going to be willing to do it? All of the accountability, expectations and the rest of it, for $12-$14 per hour? And there are plenty of Ground drivers who have "peaked" in terms of what they are capable of doing. If you've been around Express for awhile, you know that everyone isn't cut out for the job.

I'll give you Express is tougher than Ground. Only because of the different commit times. If 2nd Day goes to Ground, we'll find out. But, it's a learning curve and once you get used to it, it's not hard.
I've seen my share of couriers come and go. Some don't make it a month and I've heard of one walking out during an observation ride.

Even if bbsam thinks he can train his box monkeys to do it, how many of them will for the crap wages he is paying? You seem to be a know-it-all, so what kind of SPH are you getting from the new hires at your station? At mine, the newbies are capable of about half the productivity of an experienced courier, and most of them are leaving after a few weeks or at the most, a few months. Training and hiring are expensive too.

I'm not mister know-it-all. Like you, I speak from experience and what I have seen. The newhires SPH is about the same as when you or me were a newhire. A couple that have caught on, are actually pretty good. The ones that do catch on would keep up with you, given enough time.

 

[bbsam]

No matter what, you will be paying far less than the true market level of services rendered. This is the essence of the Ground model: "low wages, all the time." Is an Express courier worth $25 per hour or more. In my opinion, they are, because someone who actually knows what they are doing at $25 per hour is much more valuable than the 2 people you will need to hire to replace them. UPS knows this, FedEx does not.

Will some of your employee be sharp enough to be good Express couriers? Certainly. Will they do it for slightly more than you are currently paying? Maybe, but not for long. Who cares about a "challenge" with zero payoff? Even if you pay them more per hour, there are still no benefits, retirement, or career track at Ground.

Not entirely true. We do have some drivers anxious to buy in and interestingly enough an ISP nearing ready to get out. He and I have been talking. It's not a career path like Express, but that doesn't make it worse, especially with the changes coming to Ground.

 

[Code 82 Approved]

You forgot one part of my equation...my boss telling me to make it work and throwing a stop of 6 skids of glassware that I can not just toss in the back like your opco. j/k.

 

[Groundkills]

DRA is flawed and will not improve productivity. Not even a little bit. This whole program has cost our division countless millions of dollars and DOES NOT IMPROVE ON ROAD EFFICIENCY. The division needs to streamline from the top down. They know it too. Yet there are still executives and upper managment employed in this division that do nothing for the bottom line. Alot like these engineers that know nothing about being an efficient courier on road. They are all milking the division for a paycheck every week, and doing nothing to improve efficiency onroad. To the contrary they are slowing good couriers down. Fedex Ground> They are killing the Fedex brand. The retention rate at Ground is 10% for the first year of employment. And 6% for the second year of employment. They are over worked, and under paid with no benifits and all the costs. What a joke. The capitalistic model for Fedex Ground is flawed and is right now as we breath killing the Fedex Brand. Fedex has some soul searching to do. It wont be long before investors are jumping ship and this company is selling off in pieces like so many before it, that have followed this same path.
​

 

[vantexan]

DRA is flawed and will not improve productivity. Not even a little bit. This whole program has cost our division countless millions of dollars and DOES NOT IMPROVE ON ROAD EFFICIENCY. The division needs to streamline from the top down. They know it too. Yet there are still executives and upper managment employed in this division that do nothing for the bottom line. Alot like these engineers that know nothing about being an efficient courier on road. They are all milking the division for a paycheck every week, and doing nothing to improve efficiency onroad. To the contrary they are slowing good couriers down. Fedex Ground> They are killing the Fedex brand. The retention rate at Ground is 10% for the first year of employment. And 6% for the second year of employment. They are over worked, and under paid with no benifits and all the costs. What a joke. The capitalistic model for Fedex Ground is flawed and is right now as we breath killing the Fedex Brand. Fedex has some soul searching to do. It wont be long before investors are jumping ship and this company is selling off in pieces like so many before it, that have followed this same path.
​

If FedEx can deliver pkgs on time and increase profits doing it do you really think people will care? They are saving businesses alot of money with Ground and making Wall Street happy. People don't care about the employee/contractor driver. Alot of those businesses we serve pay their employees considerably less than FedEx does with even worse benefits. Think they'll shed a tear for us? When times are good and money is flowing they might, but right now the only thing they care about is getting their's, and will use any means short of a prison sentence to get it. Some will even risk that if they think they can get away with it. We make the mistake of thinking FedEx is unique in the ruthlessness department. I don't know of any company FedEx's size that demands so much from it's employees while lying to our faces for years as they strip away everything. But there are many, many companies where employees are pushed hard and given little in return. And there are companies that recognize people who are rewarded for their efforts are better employees that help them succeed. FedEx used to be one. But good luck finding a job at one of those places in this economy.

 

[bbsam]

Groundkills--



Where do you get your retention rates for Ground? I have never seen such numbers published so I suspect you are making them up.

 

[DontThrowPackages]

Groundkills--



Where do you get your retention rates for Ground? I have never seen such numbers published so I suspect you are making them up.

I will add, none of the original Ground drivers in my area are still with the company(or with the contractor I should say). The contractor is always in a truck making delivers where as in the past, he never stepped foot on road. The ground guys, in my area, are putting in 6 to 18 months and either quit or get bounce for some silly occurrences.

 

[Cactus]

Groundkills-- Where do you get your retention rates for Ground? I have never seen such numbers published so I suspect you are making them up.

That's the way you always feel when someone says something about Ground that isn't to your liking. You told me that once when I said Ground drivers were leaving valuable packages without signatures when I've witnessed it with my own eyes.

Wake up and smell the coffee not the Kool-Aid.