Driver Terminated

sx2700

Banned
And the debate goes on......Management and hourly employees will never see eye to eye. Everything is Black or White to management. This scenario could have played out a 1000 different ways but to you there is only one solution. How can you justify potentially ruining a guys life on "what if"? Because all that matters is some numbers on paper and the bottom line. Who cares about one individual? Somebody else will certainly step right up and take his place and the job will get done.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
And the debate goes on......Management and hourly employees will never see eye to eye. Everything is Black or White to management. This scenario could have played out a 1000 different ways but to you there is only one solution. How can you justify potentially ruining a guys life on "what if"? Because all that matters is some numbers on paper and the bottom line. Who cares about one individual? Somebody else will certainly step right up and take his place and the job will get done.

Nice diatribe. Does not really further the debate or answer my question, but nice never the less.

When did I ever say there was only one possible solution? I offered one, that I thought was a good one, I never said that was the only one. Now, I do admit, I only offered one possible solution. But I will point out, that is one more than you have yet offered.

I have no desire to ruin anyone’s life. And again, as a member of management and stock holder I hope this 20 year, highly skilled and motivated employee returns to work. Someone with that level of experience cannot just be replaced by the next guy to step up. However, as a member of management I have a responsibility to the company, its other employee’s and the public not to allow unsafe behavior. The more unsafe the behavior, the greater the response needs to be to correct that behavior.

Letting a package car go rolling on down the road with no one at the wheel is an extremely unsafe behavior. Perhaps we could at least agree on that?

So let me ask you, hypothetically, if you were this drivers boss, what would you consider to be an appropriate discipline for this behavior?
 

sx2700

Banned
Thank you for the condescension. You are right diatribe is a more fitting term than debate seeing as how there is no debating with management. The best answer I can give you as to what I would do is: I would fill out the accident report and have a conversation with the guy to get a better grasp of his state of mind and the circumstances involved then come up with a reasonable solution. But then what do I know? After all I am just a peon and my opinion certainly doesn't mean anything to anybody but me. BTW I just started this thread to get some information on the issue. I surely could have used a more proper term than "chicken***t" in my original post and for that I apologize. But I still think the termination was an extreme reaction to this particular situation, again just my opinion on the matter.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
You are correct; my opening in my last post was condescending in tone. That was not really my intent. I was shooting just for a bit of humorous sarcasm. I hate condescension, bothers me no end when it is done to me, so it is only worse when I catch myself doing it. I apologize, and I appreciate you calling me on it.

As far as debating with management; All I can say is, managers are people like everybody else. They have a job to do, responsibilities, and constraints placed on them. Some are so hard headed they cannot be reasoned with. Most are not.
Remember, however, just because someone in management does not immediately agree with you does not mean they are unreasonable. I will give you an example from my own personal experience. I was working one peak as a helper coordinator, and I needed to assign a helper to a driver who had not yet hit heavy peak levels of volume. The reason I needed to do this, was that I was having helpers quit left and right. I also knew that in about a week the entire center was going to explode with volume. I would need helpers readily available, and with experience so they would actually be a help, not a hindrance to their drivers. I told the driver he would get a helper, and just to use the kid for a couple hours. The driver explained he did not need a helper, and did not want one. I tried explaining the need to get them hours and experience so they would stay. The debate went on until I ran out of time before start time and I had to pull the work as directed card. Now, in this drivers mind, I was totally unreasonable and would not listen to him just another insensitive management person.

Thanks for your reply to my question. I actually do like your approach to this situation, and, it might be the one I would use were I running my own business or perhaps working in a non-union company. That said, the trouble with taking these sorts of incidents on a case by case basis is that it leaves the management person open to charges of favoritism. The rigidity in management/hourly relations created by the contract is a double edged sword, and has positives and negatives for both. No, I am not a mindless union basher, I am well aware the positives for hourly predominate. One of the negatives though, is that it gives management no leeway in dealing less severely with someone we know is a good employee that just messed up than with an employee who just doesn’t care, given the same behavior.

In any event, as has been said, in many cases like these the firing does not stick and the driver does indeed get his job back. Based on the information you have provided, I would guess that is what will happen with your friend, and I hope for his sake that is what happens.
 

scratch

Least Best Moderator
Staff member
We had a driver in my work group who had a roll away. He parked in a McDonalds and went in to eat lunch. The P7 rolled out into a six lane intersection and hit a car driven by a pregnant woman. Luckily, she wasn't hurt. He was fired but got his job back when it went to Panel. Shortly after, he had to enter a Rehab Program because he would drink at least a twelve pack after work every night. He would come to work in the morning with beer on his breath. Roll Aways are serious and should be treated as such. I have had my Car start rolling away twice on me over the years. I was able to stop it both times. Its a terrible feeling to see that thing start rolling with nobody in it. I never knew I could run that fast!:dissapointed:
 

sx2700

Banned
@Brownie: I must apologize, I forget that UPS is a HUGE company with thousands of employees and there needs to be rules. I come from a small town and a small center where everyone knows and respects each other (including management). Unfortunately the people that are making decisions for us don't know us and most likely don't care to know us. The good news is the driver will most likely get his job back as there is no proof that he was responsible, could have been any one of 25 people that were there that night. So now I will get down off my soapbox and let the chips fall where they will.
 

Gman24

Well-Known Member
A rollaway falls under article 52 in the Southern States contract. It is considered one of the 7 "CARDINAL SINS". Our union local REP says he hasn't seen ANYONE in our area WIN their job back for a rollaway in several years. Kinda sucks because I know 2 people at my center that have had rollaways in the past and got their job back. Guys this could happen to any of us, that's scary!!!!!
 

feeder53

ADKtrails
It is very unfortunate that someone loose their job, but I am responsible for the safe operation of my vehicle and my workplace....I would not try to point the blame on someone else. Lets hope that that driver gets another try at it and he learns his lesson. What if the vehicle rolled away into someones yard and killed a toddler?....I do not think I could live with myself....
 

trickpony1

Well-Known Member
you mean you current sup had a rollaway in the past?

It's not uncommon for the company to promote PC drivers who have had incidents.
Years ago, my PC supe was a PC driver. He backed into a lady's ornamental brick wall knocking it completely over. He was a supe shortly thereafter.

I knew another PC driver that left his keys in the PC while he ran in real quick to make a delivery. When he came out the PC was gone. When they found it it was half empty. He got fired but hired right back in an administrative position.

"Why does this happen?", you ask. Because no one else wants to fill the vacant position so they railroad the fired PC driver into that position.

Makes ya wonder?
 

The-UK-Guy

Tea anyone ?
Its my opinion that unless there was a mechanical failure, this guy should lose his job. I don't care what kind of past history he has. He failed to properly secure his vehicle in the parking state and the consequence should be termination. I'm sure I'll take flak for this.....-Rocky

C'mon Rocky , people make mistakes, we are not perfect. I realise this is a BIG mistake to make but no one deserves to lose their job for 1 mistake , especialy if there were no injurys involved. Im sure this driver will never let it happen again and has learned his lesson.
 

xkingx

Well-Known Member
C'mon Rocky , people make mistakes, we are not perfect. I realise this is a BIG mistake to make but no one deserves to lose their job for 1 mistake , especialy if there were no injurys involved. Im sure this driver will never let it happen again and has learned his lesson.


ITA all it takes is one roll away..be it hitting something or one catching it in time b4 the hit...you'll always recheck...
 

Service Failure

Well-Known Member
Here in San Francisco we had a guy who had two roll aways and was offered a full-time inside job instead of being terminated. I don't think someone should lose their job at UPS for it but to be allowed to be able to keep driving after the incident is a different story. I, personally still think he should be able to drive but if it were to happen twice then there shouldn't be any leniency in the disciplinary action they take. I don't hear it happen too often but here in San Francisco just about everywhere you park is a huge risk for a roll away haha. Anyways first post.
 

edd_tv

Cardboard picker upper
we had a driver with a roll away thru a fence. Was gaonna be fired right afterward but then that was turned into a 3 day suspension.
 

Bad Gas!

Well-Known Member
A few years back our center had four rollaways..yes four!..They were treated differently.The first guy was suspended for a week or so..he had a perfect run and gun help the company record...The second guy was fired (no-one hurt in any of these) and nevr got his job back.He had a terrible, rocky record and they were waiting for an excuse on him....The third guy was a cover driver and was sent back to the hub for 1 year..he is back driving now...#4 driver got his job back ..I believe it went to panel....Don't let your job rollaway...2 of these were automatics......On another note, I've had that truck lurching due to a old park brake-pretty scary!
 

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
C'mon Rocky , people make mistakes, we are not perfect. I realise this is a BIG mistake to make but no one deserves to lose their job for 1 mistake , especialy if there were no injurys involved. Im sure this driver will never let it happen again and has learned his lesson.

True, we are human. However, as far as I'm concerned THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR LETTING A PACKAGE CAR ROLL!!! As I said, if there was a mechanical failure, I'd be singing a very different tune. In fact....I'd be the first one to walk up to that driver the day he came back, shake his hand and say, "I'm sorry. We screwed up." And that.....you won't see 99% of managers do.

ITA all it takes is one roll away..be it hitting something or one catching it in time b4 the hit...you'll always recheck...

I had one vehicle--a van--start rolling on me when I was on a learner's permit. I hadn't shifted the van into park before removing my foot from the brake. It rolled about 10 feet with my mother clutching the door handle AND holding my year old brother :ashamed:. Never did that again:sad-very::sad-very:. And every time from that point forward, I made sure the car was in park and wasn't going BUDGE before I took my foot off the brakes! -Rocky
 

The-UK-Guy

Tea anyone ?
True, we are human. However, as far as I'm concerned THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR LETTING A PACKAGE CAR ROLL!!! As I said, if there was a mechanical failure, I'd be singing a very different tune. In fact....I'd be the first one to walk up to that driver the day he came back, shake his hand and say, "I'm sorry. We screwed up." And that.....you won't see 99% of managers do.



I had one vehicle--a van--start rolling on me when I was on a learner's permit. I hadn't shifted the van into park before removing my foot from the brake. It rolled about 10 feet with my mother clutching the door handle AND holding my year old brother :ashamed:. Never did that again:sad-very::sad-very:. And every time from that point forward, I made sure the car was in park and wasn't going BUDGE before I took my foot off the brakes! -Rocky

I can think of many excuses your car may roll away, for one , how about you dropped your can of budweiser out the door while backing up a ramp and it was the last of the 12 pack you had before lunch. there would be no time to put the brake on you would HAVE to jump out of the truck immediatly so you didnt spill any of the amber nectar.
 

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
I can think of many excuses your car may roll away, for one , how about you dropped your can of budweiser out the door while backing up a ramp and it was the last of the 12 pack you had before lunch. there would be no time to put the brake on you would HAVE to jump out of the truck immediatly so you didnt spill any of the amber nectar.

LOL, UK-Guy. That might be a legit excuse....IF I lived in the rural South (which I don't) and drink and drive (which I'll kill somebody for doing if they hurt one of my loved ones while driving drunk). And I've NEVER abandoned my seat. If I'm responsible for the car, I don't leave it til its secure. I made that mistake once. I won't make it again. And for your information, I was 17 at the time of the incident I described above, had NEVER had a drink AND had been up for 15 hours straight, driving for about 7 of those hours. No....it was a case of driver fatigue and inexperience. -Rocky
 
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