Driver Two-Tier Wage Pros & Cons??

[Coldworld]

The only reason I didnt vote "no" on it is because I was in junior high school at the time.....

what was given in return for havng the wages cut so dramatically, and this was when ups WAS expanding at a very fast rate and adding ground and air service nationwide. What was ups' excuse back then?

 

[Coldworld]

Ground has only been around since the mid-1980's. UPS has had a much longer time to build its network.

Why don't you let the corporate goons in Atlanta worry about FedEx ground instead of helping them give your younger brothers the shaft? Are you willing to take an $8/hour pay cut when the company posted $5 billion in profits in 2012?

But to be fair ups spent lots of time and money expanding the network, state by state and by the time rps came around they just about walked in to common carrier market..no court battles or dealing with the legal matters from the post office.

 

[Dracula]

It is fairly obvious to me that many of you cannot see beyond the zeroes on your inflated paychecks.

Ground is expanding on an almost daily basis. When is the last time you heard of a UPS expansion other than at Worldport?

Inflated paychecks? On what, inflated profits? If UPS wanted to expand they could and would. Nearly every center could expand with additional routes and additional package cars, but they CHOOSE not to; instead, they bury the drivers they have with extra work and longer hours. You seem to neglect the fact for nearly 80 years, UPS had a virtual monopoly on the small package industry. So when RPS comes along, and UPS couldn't crush them to pieces, they grew, even if their service was . Guess what? When you start from zero, you only get bigger. Hence, they grow. And when Fed-X buys RPS, they have bigger pockets to expand their facilities. Depending on the economy, if they stay in business, they will grow.

UPS has a complete network in this country. Because we aren't growing at the rate of a company that has a much smaller network, should we throw in the towel?

So, should we start selling off core assets because Fed-X is growing? Should we agree to have our wages cut because Fed-X ground is growing? Should we agree to two-tier wages because Fed-X ground is growing? Maybe we should agree to cut our benefits while you're at it too?

Sorry, UpstateNYUPSer, but I won't jump on your race to the bottom, because that's what agreeing to a two-tiered wage system is. I'll settle for my horrifying, inflated paycheck, with all of those zeros.

 

[Dracula]

Ground purchased all of the assets of RPS including their existing infrastructure.

It is scary to walk in on Monday mornings and see the 4-5 empty package cars in the line-up with none of the drivers on road going over 9.5

I don't know what kind of center you are in, but the centers I see, and the ones everyone here talks about has some of those empty package cars on Monday's, but the majority of the other drivers are way over 9.5. UPS cuts routes on Mondays regardless of the volume, and has for years now.

 

[orangeman]

Unfortunately, what we think really doesn't matter. The economics will win out. The job is no longer a smart job the way it used to be. Sure, we work hard. But we used to work hard AND smart. Now, the computer can do a good amount of the route set-up for you, and that will probably continue. When it gets to the point where a monkey can do this job, why on earth will the company continue to pay 10 dollars above what every other comparable worker is making? The answer is, they won't. While at one time, we may have been worth every penny, we no longer are. Game over boys. We're not selling out the next generation of drivers, because they will not have to do what we used to do. The job is worth ONLY what the job is worth.

 

[packageguy]

Although I know the topic of a two-tier wage system exists on this forum, I would like to have your input on the various pros and cons of a Two-Tier driving wage with this 2013 contract (grandfathered to exclude ALL existing employees waiting to go driving). I would like to keep emotion out of this topic so please remain civil if possible.

To Start... Pro 1) A two-tier system could benefit older drivers by better retirement

Con 1) Jealousy.
Con 2) Company attempting to get rid of older drivers through harassment, etc..

Don't about pay, pension and benefits are a concern,
we are young enough to still work, it's when you hit that age
we need security for pension and benefits.... Just saying

 

[purplesky]

Unfortunately, what we think really doesn't matter. The economics will win out. The job is no longer a smart job the way it used to be. Sure, we work hard. But we used to work hard AND smart. Now, the computer can do a good amount of the route set-up for you, and that will probably continue. When it gets to the point where a monkey can do this job, why on earth will the company continue to pay 10 dollars above what every other comparable worker is making? The answer is, they won't. While at one time, we may have been worth every penny, we no longer are. Game over boys. We're not selling out the next generation of drivers, because they will not have to do what we used to do. The job is worth ONLY what the job is worth.

There are only 2 players currently in the game. UPS and FDX. So is your comparable monkey worker a FDX contractor owner that employs more monkey FDX contractors in the FDX contractor ground scam?

Or are the monkey workers the Teamsters that have helped build UPS into what it is today? A cash cow? A steady eddie? A company that Wallstreet grades as rock solid moving forward?

Go to any large UPS hub and watch the monkeys limp to theirs cars because the job is so easy.

 

[bbsam]

Management only wants limp-free monkeys.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Unfortunately, what we think really doesn't matter. The economics will win out. The job is no longer a smart job the way it used to be. Sure, we work hard. But we used to work hard AND smart. Now, the computer can do a good amount of the route set-up for you, and that will probably continue. When it gets to the point where a monkey can do this job, why on earth will the company continue to pay 10 dollars above what every other comparable worker is making? The answer is, they won't. While at one time, we may have been worth every penny, we no longer are. Game over boys. We're not selling out the next generation of drivers, because they will not have to do what we used to do. The job is worth ONLY what the job is worth.

My Peak helper was a 20 something year old kid with little work experience. By the end of the first day he was delivering residentials by himself. By the end of the second day he was delivering both residentials and commercials by himself, including medical office suites. By the end of the third day he was delivering mulitple left ats. All the while he was following PAS/EDD and by the end of the week was very comfortable with both the DIAD and the delivery area. With just a little more training and a lightened work load he would have been able to deliver the area by himself. I asked him what his expectations would be as far as the wage for a FT driver and he told me between $20-25/hr.

 

[LongTimeComing]

I've stayed out of this thread for my particular lack of a clear understanding of how this effects everyone....

All I'm going to touch on is the subject of competitive advantage. I can't recall exact numbers, but a few years ago it costs UPS something like 5 cents a package MORE to ship the same package than it would FedEx....and this is primarily due to the fact that they don't have union drivers. The only way UPS can win here is by maintaining our market advantage. If FedEx Ground is dipping into our percentages, then there is a need for worry. If it was a level playing field, then it comes down to quality of service. We win that battle....but by how much in the public's perception?

Their labor law isn't making anything easier for us. RLA requires national approval to unionize. Good luck with that. UPS has tried countless times to have them reassigned to the NLRA....all in attempts to level the playing field. If this happened, there would be much less pressure on changing the driver's wages or implementing something like a two-tiered system. Their wages would get closer to what our drivers are paid. It would bring the cost advantage per package to a negligible amount. It's a crappy situation, but the reality is that we are behind them on a cost perspective....so our service has to be considerably better in order to compensate.

Do you buy store brand products even if they aren't quite as good as the name brand? I do. They cost less. They may not have the same total quality, but they're close enough. If there was a huge difference, I would stick with the name brand.

I cannot be surprised or caught off guard if UPS reacts to Ground's growth. I cannot be surprised that they are taking measures to shrink that cost-per-package difference. It's a matter of shrinking the competitive advantage.

Does anyone know of a current figure of cost per package difference between us and them?

 

[purplesky]

I've stayed out of this thread for my particular lack of a clear understanding of how this effects everyone....

All I'm going to touch on is the subject of competitive advantage. I can't recall exact numbers, but a few years ago it costs UPS something like 5 cents a package MORE to ship the same package than it would FedEx....and this is primarily due to the fact that they don't have union drivers. The only way UPS can win here is by maintaining our market advantage. If FedEx Ground is dipping into our percentages, then there is a need for worry. If it was a level playing field, then it comes down to quality of service. We win that battle....but by how much in the public's perception?

Their labor law isn't making anything easier for us. RLA requires national approval to unionize. Good luck with that. UPS has tried countless times to have them reassigned to the NLRA....all in attempts to level the playing field. If this happened, there would be much less pressure on changing the driver's wages or implementing something like a two-tiered system. Their wages would get closer to what our drivers are paid. It would bring the cost advantage per package to a negligible amount. It's a crappy situation, but the reality is that we are behind them on a cost perspective....so our service has to be considerably better in order to compensate.

Do you buy store brand products even if they aren't quite as good as the name brand? I do. They cost less. They may not have the same total quality, but they're close enough. If there was a huge difference, I would stick with the name brand.

I cannot be surprised or caught off guard if UPS reacts to Ground's growth. I cannot be surprised that they are taking measures to shrink that cost-per-package difference. It's a matter of shrinking the competitive advantage.

Does anyone know of a current figure of cost per package difference between us and them?

The real question is how much is FDX paying for their contractor model overall? We hear that ground drivers make $600 to $800 per week on average but how much are they paying the owners of the ground routes?

FDX isnt going to release that info so its VERY HARD TO DETERMINE THE ACTUAL COST DIFFERENCE PER PACKAGE between UPS and FDX.

Lets just cut the crap on this two-tier wage idea. INSTEAD DO A ACROSS THE BOARD PAY CUT($3hr to $5hr) FOR TOP SCALE DRIVERS ON THE STRICT CONDITION THAT THE SAVINGS IS IMMEDIATELY PASSED ON TO THE CUSTOMERS AND NOT TO SHAREHOLDERS.

I bet FDX ground would love to get in a shipping price war with UPS. Think about it. This would force the already really low wages down at FDX and put a $$ squeeze on that contractor scam between owners and drivers. Fred S DOES NOT WANT THIS.

I think its great that so many UPSERS on here are freaking out about the FDX ground threat but you need to relax. We are not currently in a critical stage or even close to being not profitable.

Besides if all else fails UPS can become the next Amazon and become an online retailer and partner and really change the retail industry. You never know.

 

[bbsam]

Purplesky, have you looked at the profits at Ground quarter by quarter? You don't have to know how much is spent per quarter per contractor, it's all put out there in quarterly reports. Nothing secret. Neither company wants a price war, but don't think for a moment that it would harm Grpund more.

 

[Dracula]

INSTEAD DO A ACROSS THE BOARD PAY CUT($3hr to $5hr) FOR TOP SCALE DRIVERS ON THE STRICT CONDITION THAT THE SAVINGS IS IMMEDIATELY PASSED ON TO THE CUSTOMERS AND NOT TO SHAREHOLDERS.

Are you high? With your kind of thinking, we never would be making the kind of money we are now. You are a managers wet dream. Unbelievable.

 

[purplesky]

Purplesky, have you looked at the profits at Ground quarter by quarter? You don't have to know how much is spent per quarter per contractor, it's all put out there in quarterly reports. Nothing secret. Neither company wants a price war, but don't think for a moment that it would harm Grpund more.

Those are FDX numbers for Wallstreet to manipulate the stock price. bbsam there is noway to really know what your costs are and what FDX is paying you.

FDX ground would be in a world of hurt if UPS got aggressive with shipping price cuts. I DONT SEE THIS HAPPENING. UPS AND FDX NEED EACH OTHER TO KEEP SHIPPING RATES UP.

 

[bbsam]

Manipulating stock price? Absolutely not. They wouldn't go posting a 20% profit margin to manipulate stock prices. That would have the SEC all over them. And we agree. Both parties want to keep rates high. Only one makes a higher margin off that price than the other.