Edison NJ

[island1fox]

I guess it could stay at the negotiating table it both parties were truly "negotiating" but if things are in a stalemate then sometimes a little "push" is needed. Maybe the "whole world" needs to be aware of some of these issues.




There are many grievances going on right now. (I'm sure the printer's business is up printing the forms.)
Management's thing seems to be to want to take EVERY greivance to arbitration. This waiting list is now over 2 yrs, meanwhile many of the grieved items are still ongoing.
One of the ploys seems to be to let the greivance get all the way to the arbitrator and then management say's, "we were wrong, we won't do it again".
Till the next time, without an arbitrator's ruling, the do it again, and start the whole process all over.

You can believe whatever the Union or the Business Agents tell you.
Two years --backed up --believe what you want. Right or wrong (I believe wrong--because of the perception} The vast majority of grievances are "cleaned up" at the end of the year. Right or wrong(I believe wrong --because of your belief) Also you have a very childish view of Abitrations ---you seem to feel that the union is right ALL the time --sorry to burst your bubble ---But as I stated --believe what you want.
If I filed a GRIEVANCE ----IF IT WAS NOT ANSWERED IN THE SPECIFIED TIME MY CONTRACT STATES --AND I AM UP TO DATE ON MY UNION DUES ---I WOULD TAKE ON THE UNION AND COMPANY !!!
Can anyone say "Labor Board" You may be shocked at what you learn !!!

 

[island1fox]

I agree with you on this for the most part, the exception being those part-timers hired during the early 80s who are making very close to FT driver wage today. We have a few of these in my center and they make $35-40K working part time.

Upstate NY,
Good point ! We don"t have to feel too sorry for the "red circled" part -timers --except that I would not have chosen to work that position my entire working career.
P.s. Hope you are a YANKEE fan !!! If you are ---Congrats !!!!

 

[tae111]

I agree. If your looking to become a full time employee than ups might be the better bet. Most of the drivers I know got their start by being a peak season drivers or were hired right off the street. Not many come from the part time ranks. I think we have around a 80% turnover rate here for part time. Some of the part timers I know that are career part timers have other jobs. They stay for the benefits. Not too many places you can work part time and get family benefits.

 

[feederdriver06]

Everyone seems to agee that things have changed ----Look at the average drivers wage --over 100,000 !!! I friend you want the partimers to be given more and drivers less --that is what contract negotiations are about. Ups was able to pay the p/t's well over the minimum because they could. With the increase in friend/t wages and demands for combo jobs along with Fed x and other competition ---including the post office protecting their people by unfair competition --one price -one box -anywhere --wake up !!

Lets pay all the partimers thirteen bucks an hour tomorrow with full benefits immediately !!!!
Sounds like a great idea -----within a matter of a few years ----400,000 more people out of work !!!!!

I don't know where you came up with 100 grand a year average drivers salary. This is way off from reality. I never said I wanted the part timers to be paid more and the drivers to be paid less. I am making a point that the part time starting wage has basically be ignored over the last 20 years. Other positions within the company have all seen their starting rates increase. UPS making 2 billion a year and at the same time possibly crying the blues about the point I'm trying to make is unacceptable. Once the minimum wage eclipses the part time starting rate ,UPS will more than likely see a drop off in people coming in the door filling out apps. Getting benefits a year down the road wont be incentive enough to kill yourself loading trailers for minimum wage when you can work the McDonalds drive thru for the same money.

 

[island1fox]

I agree. If your looking to become a full time employee than ups might be the better bet. Most of the drivers I know got their start by being a peak season drivers or were hired right off the street. Not many come from the part time ranks. I think we have around a 80% turnover rate here for part time. Some of the part timers I know that are career part timers have other jobs. They stay for the benefits. Not too many places you can work part time and get family benefits.

tae111
I believe you make very valid points in this post. Ups is not growing in Package delivery they way it was in the 70's and 80's. When RPS --now Fedx ground --the post office and many other competitors poped up --the growth was split. Now with this economy --and the spending our politicians are doing --I believe there will be less and less full time opportunities at UPS. The only thing I see changing that is much more cooperation between the company and union and the real salespeople --the Drivers ---work to take volume off the competetion. But this will not happen ---argue, file grievances, air dirty laundry in public ---drive volume to the competition etc etc etc -----Fly around in Planes --Making sure some p/t supervisor does not touch a package when ten union p/ts did not show up for work is so so so much more important than finding ways to develop volume ---protect and create jobs. Keep sweating the "small" things and everyone will lose the big ones .
Both Scott Davis and J. Hoffa should be ashamed of themselves for allowing the post office to use revenue from the monopoly first class mail --to lower parcel rates and provide --one box -one flat rate .
This is just one example of how union and company could Lobby and work together to produve full time union jobs. Instead ---Union"SUPERVISORS WORKING" --Company "UnionP/t attendance " --Never ending B.S.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

Once the minimum wage eclipses the part time starting rate ,UPS will more than likely see a drop off in people coming in the door filling out apps.

And with the high part timer turn over rate, the argument that part time is just a gateway is debatable.

I would argue that nowadays it is a gateway out the door to another job for most people.

If in '87 the company did not offer such a high starting salary for p/t work, I would not be working here today.

 

[island1fox]

I don't know where you came up with 100 grand a year average drivers salary. This is way off from reality. I never said I wanted the part timers to be paid more and the drivers to be paid less. I am making a point that the part time starting wage has basically be ignored over the last 20 years. Other positions within the company have all seen their starting rates increase. UPS making 2 billion a year and at the same time possibly crying the blues about the point I'm trying to make is unacceptable. Once the minimum wage eclipses the part time starting rate ,UPS will more than likely see a drop off in people coming in the door filling out apps. Getting benefits a year down the road wont be incentive enough to kill yourself loading trailers for minimum wage when you can work the McDonalds drive thru for the same money.

We will have to agee to disagree --I have already exlained the total driver wage and benefit package cost --100,000 is a good number -fact --sorry if you cannot understand that.

I could take this from alot of different angles ---but I will make this statement --based on a "private citizen" --not management nor union --because thats what I am ---As a private "Shareowner" of Ups stock --I can tell you that in the past nine years --YOUR --company has not lived up to my expectations on return of investment. YOUR company seems to be doing very little to improve volume and revenue levels ---cost control only goes so far . If I decide along with every other shareholder to "completely diversify" from Ups ---Do you realize ---The Company no longer exists !!!

 

[JimJimmyJames]

Unreasonable expectations of return on investment is part and parcel (no pun intended) of why this country is in it's current predicament.

If I wanted to maximize my return I would sell off all my UPS stock and invest in companies who only consider the shareholder important. Like FedEx.

If you believe, like I do, that the health and well being of the employees is just as important, actually more important, as shareholder value, and that customers are even more important then either of the two, I would stick with UPS.

Not only do you make money, you invest in prosperity for all. Why is that important? Because if we don't take the big picture into account, we could be substituting short time gains for long term growth. For our whole nation.

A world of Walmart, FedEx, and the like leads to the destruction of the middle class and a third world economy for most of us.

(Boy, did I take this as off topic as I could go. Any moment PobreCarlos will be here to refute me. Or Klien will point out something about Canada. ).

 

[island1fox]

Unreasonable expectations of return on investment is part and parcel (no pun intended) of why this country is in it's current predicament.

If I wanted to maximize my return I would sell off all my UPS stock and invest in companies who only consider the shareholder important. Like FedEx.

If you believe, like I do, that the health and well being of the employees is just as important, actually more important, as shareholder value, and that customers are even more important then either of the two, I would stick with UPS.

Not only do you make money, you invest in prosperity for all. Why is that important? Because if we don't take the big picture into account, we could be substituting short time gains for long term growth. For our whole nation.

A world of Walmart, FedEx, and the like leads to the destruction of the middle class and a third world economy for most of us.

(Boy, did I take this as off topic as I could go. Any moment PobreCarlos will be here to refute me. Or Klien will point out something about Canada. ).

Jim,
Hate to burst your (housing) bubble ---the economy is in very small part where it is because of greed. It is mainly there because of Liberal social policies --from welfare, food stamps, free education---free healthcare up and including pushing banks to make risky homes to people that never should have been in homes ----People that want something for virtually nothing.
A REASONABLE return on a RISK investment of ones hard earned money is not greed. A stock price that is and has been under from where it was nine years ago is a serious concern. You seem not to live in the REAL --world ---Part time people that believe that their salaries should have increased along with the drivers rates are out of touch with their unions top negotiating team and reality.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

I am sorry but if a race to the bottom is reality, I will remain happily divorced from it.

But aside from that, I will agree that government handouts are a big cause of our current problems. Too bad we fail to realize that corporate welfare, in the form of support of the military/security complex, along with privatization schemes that increase costs, decrease service but give lucrative contracts to campaign contributors, are the main pigs at the public trough.

That is not even touching on the bailouts given to Wall Street, that bastion of capitalism...until they begin to fail. Then socialism suits them just fine.

Anyways...as to the actions of Local 177. I do support their cause, I am just not sure if taking it "out of house" is the best idea.

For reasons I am sure you would agree with Fox, in this economy, the public is definitely not going to be sympathetic to folks who are knocking on $30 an hour, or part timers who do have benefits, paid vacations/holidays, etc.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Hope you are a YANKEE fan !!! If you are ---Congrats !!!!

You don't come here very often, do you?

I am a huge Boston fan as I am from that area originally. Uncle Sam brought me to NY and I have chosen to stay as this is a great place to raise children. We'll see where I end up in 10 years.

 

[Dragon]

the Drivers ---work to take volume off the competetion. But this will not happen ---argue, file grievances, air dirty laundry in public ---drive volume to the competition etc etc etc -----Fly around in Planes --Making sure some p/t supervisor does not touch a package when ten union p/ts did not show up for work is so so so much more important than finding ways to develop volume ---protect and create jobs. Keep sweating the "small" things and everyone will lose the big ones .

Just in case anybody skipped this part of post. Island1fox you have my vote for president.

 

[PT Stewie]

the Drivers ---work to take volume off the competetion. But this will not happen ---argue, file grievances, air dirty laundry in public ---drive volume to the competition etc etc etc -----Fly around in Planes --Making sure some p/t supervisor does not touch a package when ten union p/ts did not show up for work is so so so much more important than finding ways to develop volume ---protect and create jobs. Keep sweating the "small" things and everyone will lose the big ones .

Just in case anybody skipped this part of post. Island1fox you have my vote for president.

How about the 10 pt's that show up every day and get sent home early while the sups finish their work.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

How about the 10 pt's that show up every day and get sent home early while the sups finish their work.

Touché!

 

[stevetheupsguy]

How about the 10 pt's that show up every day and get sent home early while the sups finish their work.

Touché!

Don't get island1fox to riled up. You may be charged with elder abuse.

 

[bluehdmc]

Jim,
Hate to burst your (housing) bubble ---the economy is in very small part where it is because of greed. It is mainly there because of Liberal social policies --from welfare, food stamps, free education---free healthcare up and including pushing banks to make risky homes to people that never should have been in homes ----People that want something for virtually nothing.
A REASONABLE return on a RISK investment of ones hard earned money is not greed. A stock price that is and has been under from where it was nine years ago is a serious concern. You seem not to live in the REAL --world ---Part time people that believe that their salaries should have increased along with the drivers rates are out of touch with their unions top negotiating team and reality.

Greed of bankers, aig, etc. had nothing to do with it?
Didn't they package up all those risky investmensts to make a profit for themselves?
"Creative Financing"
A realtor doesn't really care if they sell someone a house they can't afford. They get their commission from the original sale, then when it get's foreclosed on, they collect from the leinholder for cleaning, winterizing, and marketing the foreclosed property again.
Try reading this:http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877323,00.html
I don't see "free education, welfare, food stamps" or any of those items mentioned.
I see more names of people in charge of the SEC, Standard and Poor's, Lehman Brothers, banks etc.
Maybe a little greed on their part had something to do with it?
The "Liberal social policies" "pushed" banks into making questionable loans, or was it the fat commissions the bankers got from making the loans and selling them off?
I guess we'd be better off having people sell apples on the corner like during the depression than to have food stamps?
I'm not saying there aren't abuses in these programs, there is an article today about fraud in medicare. Which is better, 10% fraud and 90% of people getting healthcare or 0% fraud and 0% healthcare for the elderly etc?

 

[Anonymous 10]

177 is a hard ass local with alot of balls. Sometimes you have to think outside the box and they do. Good looking out.

 

[tieguy]

177 is a hard ass local with alot of balls. Sometimes you have to think outside the box and they do. Good looking out.

Its good to be able to brag about having balls but I'm not sure it gains them a lot in the long run. You now have a pissing contest. There's not a lot of sincere conversation taking place when you have a pissing contest. Members of 177 will make mistakes and lose their jobs when they would have gotten a break. When you embarass a region manager and possibly the CEO during an economic slowdown you are really taking chances. Hope 177 is prepared for the possible fall out.

 

[island1fox]

Greed of bankers, aig, etc. had nothing to do with it?
Didn't they package up all those risky investmensts to make a profit for themselves?
"Creative Financing"
A realtor doesn't really care if they sell someone a house they can't afford. They get their commission from the original sale, then when it get's foreclosed on, they collect from the leinholder for cleaning, winterizing, and marketing the foreclosed property again.
Try reading this:http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877323,00.html
I don't see "free education, welfare, food stamps" or any of those items mentioned.
I see more names of people in charge of the SEC, Standard and Poor's, Lehman Brothers, banks etc.
Maybe a little greed on their part had something to do with it?
The "Liberal social policies" "pushed" banks into making questionable loans, or was it the fat commissions the bankers got from making the loans and selling them off?
I guess we'd be better off having people sell apples on the corner like during the depression than to have food stamps?
I'm not saying there aren't abuses in these programs, there is an article today about fraud in medicare. Which is better, 10% fraud and 90% of people getting healthcare or 0% fraud and 0% healthcare for the elderly etc?

Blah, BLAH , BLAH,
Sure there was greed like Mr RAINES THE HEAD OF Fannie --also wall street ----AFTER ---WHAT part of AFTER --do you not understand.
If you do just a little research you will find out that the Community REinvestment Act of the great Jimmy Carter ----steamrolled into thr ninties when none only but BILL CLINTON had legislation passed that deregulated Fannie and funded Freddie. Also in the late eighties that great group ACORN --sued CITYBANK --using a lawfirm that our great President of today worked for {starting to open you eyes) the lawsuit was that Acorn accused Citybank of racism because they did not have enough minority loans. From there with Fannie AND Freddie with government backed guarantees -----no down payment house purchases without financial checks went through the roof. As loans were given to people that could not afford nor understand ARM's ----Homes were built ---bought with bad loans ---more Houses built --supply and demand ---drove a false "bubble" in home values.
When gas prices rose the summer of 08 along with ADJUSTABLE RATES INCREASING --THE BUBBLE BROKE.
Spin it any you like --live in LA LA land --facts are facts ----wall street greed took place after the stage was set by the dopey politicians -
Believe what you want ----this is making me tired !!!!

p.s. I guess you-also believe the "stimulous " has saved and will create jobs?
I guess you also believe that in the next few years with millions of baby boomers being added to medicare ---the government will lower the cost by 500 billion --the fraud ??? Obama has been in almost a year ---has not identified nor saved one penny in fraud !!! One of two things will happen ----these programs will be bankrupt or --most likely ---not just the "rich"
all federal tax rates will be well over the 5o% mark.

 

[Dragon]

How about the 10 pt's that show up every day and get sent home early while the sups finish their work. [/

PT Stewie - get your people to do the work - Don't send EVERYONE home, keep a couple to close out your area. Last tip and I will leave you alone - stand up to your ft supervisor or manager (I know what your thinking, easy to say hard to do). You do not get paid to load/unload you get paid to supervise.