FedEx Home wins round in Unionization efforts

[MrFedEx]

Didn't understand it? LOL - Because it is not one! It was such a bad example I was hoping someone else would chime in. I was disappointed. RE Brokers & salespeople are under a Broker / Licensee agreement, State-mandated relationship. It is truly an apples to bullfrogs comparison.

If you are either a RE Broker or licensee placing his shingle in the office of same, you already know this.

Sigh. It's apples to bullfrogs because it's a different relationship. Please tell me how delivering pkgs and real estate are similar? As a realtor, I am independent, except in the legal broker/licensee relationship you describe. If FedEx Ground IC's were truly independent, it would operate the same way, but it doesn't, because FedEx has an employer/employee relationship with it's "contractors", at least on the single vehicle operator level.

While I am held to the legal bounds of the broker/licensee relationship, I have enormous freedom to set my own hours, select my own clients, drive the type of car I choose, and on and on. If I don't feel like working for 3 weeks, I don't. Could I do that at FedEx Ground as a single vehicle operator? NO,I COULD NOT!! That's why FedEx has moved away from the single IC model to the multiple plan. How can a single vehicle Ground operator behave as anything but an employee given all the rules and regulations he/she must follow? Under the new plan, you may have a point. When you can designate someone else to do your work as a sub-contractor, then it IS possible to be an IC.

At FedEx Ground, it's all spelled-out, and besides having an employer/contractor relationship, the "IC" also has the additional quota of
stringent FedEx rules and regulations that apply to "employees". Sure, they're "independent", but they're also an "employee"? Sorry Fedex, you cannot have your cake and eat it too, which is exactly the way Fred S expects to do business and has for years. He gets his own special set of rules because he is the almighty Smith.

We're going to have to agree to disagree, OK?

 

[bbsam]

i would like to reiterate the point that the climate at ground here in the midwest looks nothing like what mrfedex tries to imply. people seem to have the mistaken idea that ic's are at the complete mercy of the company. that the contract is restrictive and draconian. example: one of my drivers does not come to work until 9:30 am. doesn't leave the terminal until 10:30--10:45 but continues year after year to get the job done. The company is in no position to do anything about it. as long as 99% servic is attained, they say nothing, and even if service falls, little is done. in my 15 years i have yet to see a contract terminated. i have yet to see a contractor leave to work for express, ups, or dhl. i have seen routes sold for $100,000. so when you her ground contractors are getting the shaft consider he source and whether he or she knows what they are talking about.

 

[MrFedEx]

i would like to reiterate the point that the climate at ground here in the midwest looks nothing like what mrfedex tries to imply. people seem to have the mistaken idea that ic's are at the complete mercy of the company. that the contract is restrictive and draconian. example: one of my drivers does not come to work until 9:30 am. doesn't leave the terminal until 10:30--10:45 but continues year after year to get the job done. The company is in no position to do anything about it. as long as 99% servic is attained, they say nothing, and even if service falls, little is done. in my 15 years i have yet to see a contract terminated. i have yet to see a contractor leave to work for express, ups, or dhl. i have seen routes sold for $100,000. so when you her ground contractors are getting the shaft consider he source and whether he or she knows what they are talking about.

We've argued on here before and I'll grant you two things. First, you pay better than most Ground operators, and second, how do we know you are a representative example of the average Ground contractor? You have multiple routes, and have said you do quite well on the deal. Good for you.

But what about the single-vehicle operators? I've seen plenty of ads in the paper, on Craigslist, and the internet....all trying to dump routes and/or vehicles, often at bargain prices. Why would you sell a highly profitable route or take a substantial loss on a specialized vehicle? The answer is obvious.

 

[evilleace]

I have a question for those that ACTUALLY WORK FOR FED-EX do you think that they would vote in a union if allowed? If not why do you think this.

 

[Catatonic]

But what about the single-vehicle operators? I've seen plenty of ads in the paper, on Craigslist, and the internet....all trying to dump routes and/or vehicles, often at bargain prices. Why would you sell a highly profitable route or take a substantial loss on a specialized vehicle? The answer is obvious.

They made so much money they bought an island in the Caribbean and they are retiring?

 

[Livin the Dream?]

I was saying Real Estate is a poor example to compare to an IC. You appear to have an agenda. I simply feel there is a definition of ICs that few people understand.

Main point by far is, UPS & Teamsters are the ones pushing it, NOBODY else.

We agree to disagree.

MrFedEx - Serious, non-confrontational question; What is your position at FedEx? Do you actually even work there?

 

[JimJimmyJames]

bbsam, some questions: do your drivers have health care benefits, vacations, sick days and a pension? Do they make almost $30.00 and hour? If they don't, would they accept these things if they could?

 

[Catatonic]

I was saying Real Estate is a poor example to compare to an IC. You appear to have an agenda. I simply feel there is a definition of ICs that few people understand.

Main point by far is, UPS & Teamsters are the ones pushing it, NOBODY else.

We agree to disagree.

Those FedEx ICs are just like UPS Part-timers.
They never stand up for their rights ... somebody has to!

 

[Livin the Dream?]

bbsam, some questions: do your drivers have health care benefits, vacations, sick days and a pension? Do they make almost $30.00 and hour? If they don't, would they accept these things if they could?

Don't forget to add that the way they would have to work, the hours, the amount of work, would change drastically. More like, say, the fun way UPS works.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

Agreed. There is no way that FedEx Ground drivers are working at the same intense level as UPS drivers for the compensation FedEx Ground drivers receive.

 

[trplnkl]

Agreed. There is no way that FedEx Ground drivers are working at the same intense level as UPS drivers for the compensation FedEx Ground drivers receive.

That's only because they don't have the same volume UPS drivers have. As far as FeDex Ground is concerned they don't care how many routes are on the road, the cost of getting X amount of packages delivered is that same. The route owner would probably love to have 200 stops and 300 packages to deliver every day.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

The route owner yes. But what of the person who just drives for the route owner?

 

[Livin the Dream?]

The route owner yes. But what of the person who just drives for the route owner?

Probably unemployment

 

[MrFedEx]

I was saying Real Estate is a poor example to compare to an IC. You appear to have an agenda. I simply feel there is a definition of ICs that few people understand.

Main point by far is, UPS & Teamsters are the ones pushing it, NOBODY else.

We agree to disagree.

MrFedEx - Serious, non-confrontational question; What is your position at FedEx? Do you actually even work there?

Serious, non-confrontational answer. Over 25 years at FedEx Express in a variety of positions. My "agenda" is that I think most single-vehicle IC's at Ground are getting treated badly. The ones who really get screwed are the drivers who work for the multiple-vehicle IC's. Low pay, no benefits, and often on salary, which means that 60 hrs a week gets flat-rated at $600-$700. bbsam, for example, is a multiple-vehicle IC, so he's got a good deal going. I doubt his drivers can say the same thing about their situation. He skims the profits, the drivers work for peanuts, service sucks, and FedEx Ground undercuts UPS on rates because UPS has to pay a living wage (and benefits).

The low cost structure at Ground also costs us work on the Express side, which you probably are not aware of. Smith has already shifted RTD (feeder) work from Express over to Ground, and he is likely planning to shift our 2 and 3 day services over to Ground, especially if Express goes union. Since you don't work for FedEx, you have no idea what a scheming and steaming pile of feces Fred S is. If you did, you'd understand why a lot of his employees in all divisions of the company hate him and what a lousy company FedEx has become.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

If in that you mean that the lowly non-route owning driver up and quits because he will not deliver 200 stops a day for $15.00 an hour, then yes, I agree .

 

[Livin the Dream?]

If in that you mean that the lowly non-route owning driver up and quits because he will not deliver 200 stops a day for $15.00 an hour, then yes, I agree .

That too, but I meant that, as a (now) employee of FedEx, the route owner will become the route driver, and the actual drivers will be, well, nothing. An employee of FedEx would not be authorized to hire someone to do the driving, I would assume.

Take this for whatever you want - If I was offered $15.00/hour to deliver packages, paid OT to do so? I'd take the job in 5 seconds. Less if I could talk faster.

 

[bbsam]

no, there are no benefits, they make far less than $30 per hour. but then again, i'm not here trying to recruit ups drivers to work for ground. i've never done a time study and never plan to. things are very relaxed and as long as the work gets done (55 to 110 stops, pick up and delivery) they are free to do as they wish. and though many here will scoff at the $14 and hour they make, ups isn't hiring around here. would they vote in a union? i honestly don't know. there were a few rps terminals that were unionized at one time and the company crushed them. maybe with the introduction of a union i would have to begin time studies, strict disciplinary codes and become a big brown nazi wannabe. more likely i'd sell off a bunch of routes and just keep one or two. although working for me may not be ideal, apparently there are worse situations to be in. just hired back a guy who went to a union factory just 3 months before they started laying people off. i guess i'm marginally better than unemployment

 

[705red]

i would like to reiterate the point that the climate at ground here in the midwest looks nothing like what mrfedex tries to imply. people seem to have the mistaken idea that ic's are at the complete mercy of the company. that the contract is restrictive and draconian. example: one of my drivers does not come to work until 9:30 am. doesn't leave the terminal until 10:30--10:45 but continues year after year to get the job done. The company is in no position to do anything about it. as long as 99% servic is attained, they say nothing, and even if service falls, little is done. in my 15 years i have yet to see a contract terminated. i have yet to see a contractor leave to work for express, ups, or dhl. i have seen routes sold for $100,000. so when you her ground contractors are getting the shaft consider he source and whether he or she knows what they are talking about.

What about contractors that come back from fighting in Iraq only to be shown the door is this fair? Do a little research and see that what Fred is doing is not right. If the route sold for $100,000 how much did the "ic" pay for it originally?

 

[JimJimmyJames]

no, there are no benefits, they make far less than $30 per hour. but then again, i'm not here trying to recruit ups drivers to work for ground. i've never done a time study and never plan to. things are very relaxed and as long as the work gets done (55 to 110 stops, pick up and delivery) they are free to do as they wish. and though many here will scoff at the $14 and hour they make, ups isn't hiring around here. would they vote in a union? i honestly don't know. there were a few rps terminals that were unionized at one time and the company crushed them. maybe with the introduction of a union i would have to begin time studies, strict disciplinary codes and become a big brown nazi wannabe. more likely i'd sell off a bunch of routes and just keep one or two. although working for me may not be ideal, apparently there are worse situations to be in. just hired back a guy who went to a union factory just 3 months before they started laying people off. i guess i'm marginally better than unemployment

Doesn't sound like a bad deal, if you are young and live in an area of the country where the cost of living is low. Now, if you live in the northeast and are middle aged with a family... then not so good.

Everything is relative .

 

[bbsam]

Doesn't sound like a bad deal, if you are young and live in an area of the country where the cost of living is low. Now, if you live in the northeast and are middle aged with a family... then not so good.

Everything is relative .

agreed. everything is relative. and i believe here in the iowa midwest cost of living is relatively low and relatively speaking being a driver for ups is probably better than being a driver for fedex ground, but better than driving for dhl. but also i'd choose being a contractor over either.