FedEx Truck Kills 2 Kids in MS.

[Mr. 7]

With telematics,we are not allowed to even turn on the diad while the truck is in motion(not in park),
they call it recording while idling.The only good thing about this is that when you're on the highway on
the way back to the building,you have to ignore it when they message you.
According to ups,the push in production should have no bearing
on a professional driver if he follows all the rhetoric in the 5 seeing habits and the 10 point commentary.
To be honest,other than obvious unavoidable accidents,this should be true.
Being human,ofttimes our sense of urgency overrides our training,and we become complacent.OK I was not going to talk about this but I feel like I have to now.
I'm ashamed to admit it,but I friend'd up last week. I did a resi on a quiet side street.See #9 of the 10 point,
L signal L shoulder L mirror ....forgot about the right mirror and the slight tailswing hit the knob of a fire hydrant which I parked about 3 feet behind.
Did about $1000 damage to a brand new workhorse.Got taken out of service for the day,and had a safety ride the next.
My 7th accident in 21 years,5 deemed avoidable.My center manager pointed out that I cost them $2500 for a tier 1 accident,about $200 for the 2 drivers that had to
finish my route,plus the $1000 damage I did to the package car.
An old newfie told me once awhile ago when I told him I've been coming her 20 years and I've never hit anything.
He said,I've been across Newfoundland 5 times and never hit a moose,but that don't mean it could never happen.
OK sorry for the rant...
Fedex,ups...whatever...be careful,

Good post.
Rear swing-out is a big issue. Especially with you UPS'ers that are typically driving what "we" consider the larger version of our "package cars" (Grumman 900 is larger than what most of us drive, a Grumman 700)

I am always hyper-aware of how/where I park my truck for pulling out to compensate for rear swing-out.

 

[Catatonic]

Seems to me like you should read the whole thread before responding.

I did before my last post and I did again.

This thread does very little to comfort the family of the 2 kids that were killed.

It is mostly about blaming push for productivity as the reason for accidents occurring.

Maybe you should read again and try thinking.

 

[MrFedEx]

I see your point Dave but it was obvious with OP original post that the OP did not care anything about the people killed but was just using the story to grind his axe. That sort of disgusted me and I reacted to that. I think the rest of the posts in this thread backs up my surmising of the intent of the original post.

PS - I did not see posts 2, 3 and 4 before posting my response to Post 1.

I can grind my axe and still feel compassion for the tremendous loss suffered by that family. Are you God? How do you know what I feel? You don't, so your reply is nonsense. One of the big reasons that I hate FedEx is that they are truly a money machine without a soul. They are already analyzing this accident to minimize exposure and losses. They care nothing for the kids or family. Of course, they will say all the right things and offer a generous settlement, carefully calculated to be less than they would payout in court. Perhaps they will spill everything over onto the ISP contractor. I know how they work, from many years of experience and through associations with people at the top of the heap that I know from when they were hourlies.

I have small kids, and something like this makes me sick. I'm just doing what I can to expose them and stop more of the same from happening. Your response disgusts me.

 

[DS]

Mr fedex,get real.they care nothing about the family? Get a grip.They are as human as you or I.
In my former post I guess I seemed insensitive to it as well.The fact that kids were killed should be the focus
of the thread,and Hoax is right.
You have so much hate wrapped up in working there,you can't see that cutbacks are happening everywhere,
some stupid fedex driver rammed a saturn and killed 2 kids,it's not fedexes fault.

 

[MrFedEx]

Mr fedex,get real.they care nothing about the family? Get a grip.They are as human as you or I.
In my former post I guess I seemed insensitive to it as well.The fact that kids were killed should be the focus
of the thread,and Hoax is right.
You have so much hate wrapped up in working there,you can't see that cutbacks are happening everywhere,
some stupid fedex driver rammed a saturn and killed 2 kids,it's not fedexes fault.

It may have been the driver's fault, but my issue is the unprecedented push for productivity. Sure, it's everywhere, but they have taken it to ridiculous extremes over here. That's my objection. And no, they aren't as human as you or I are. Therein lies the big difference. We should also have a cutout system on the PowerPad, but we don't. Why? So the drivers can look at it on the road. It would have been simple to engineer into the unit, but they didn't do it. The newest version doesn't have a cutout either. The old DADS units automatically went blank once your vehicle was in motion. Couriers used to disable them routinely by yanking a wire, but at least there was a form of safeguard to avoid reading it while in motion.

Who knows, maybe this guy just fell asleep or made some other stupid mistake. I don't know. But I do know how hard they are pushing right now, and it isn't worth driving like a maniac just to keep your job. It's gone that far, and that's wrong. This kind of accident is going to happen again. I've seen our guys driving 50 mph through residential areas where the limiit is 25 because they are scared for their jobs. That isn't right.

Your commentary on Safe Driving Habits is right on the money. We use the Smith System, which is similar. I don't know what Ground uses, but it's probably something close to ours. Obviously, this driver wasn't being professional, but too much pressure can cause even seasoned professionals to cut corners.

 

[quadro]

It may have been the driver's fault, but my issue is the unprecedented push for productivity. Sure, it's everywhere, but they have taken it to ridiculous extremes over here. That's my objection. And no, they aren't as human as you or I are. Therein lies the big difference. We should also have a cutout system on the PowerPad, but we don't. Why? So the drivers can look at it on the road. It would have been simple to engineer into the unit, but they didn't do it. The newest version doesn't have a cutout either. The old DADS units automatically went blank once your vehicle was in motion. Couriers used to disable them routinely by yanking a wire, but at least there was a form of safeguard to avoid reading it while in motion.

Who knows, maybe this guy just fell asleep or made some other stupid mistake. I don't know. But I do know how hard they are pushing right now, and it isn't worth driving like a maniac just to keep your job. It's gone that far, and that's wrong. This kind of accident is going to happen again. I've seen our guys driving 50 mph through residential areas where the limiit is 25 because they are scared for their jobs. That isn't right.

Your commentary on Safe Driving Habits is right on the money. We use the Smith System, which is similar. I don't know what Ground uses, but it's probably something close to ours. Obviously, this driver wasn't being professional, but too much pressure can cause even seasoned professionals to cut corners.

The wire that blanked the DADS was connected in some way to the transmission. That's how the DADS blanked when the vehicle was moving. Seeing as you know "it would have been simple to engineer into the unit" why don't you tell us how you can blank out a powerpad that doesn't even know it is in a vehicle, let alone if the vehicle is moving.

What's even simpler is just to make stuff up. It's also pretty insulting of you to constantly claim that so many employees at FedEx value their jobs over their lives. You keep saying how people are so afraid of not making their numbers or losing their job that they repeatedly risk their lives and the lives of others. Yes, there are people that do stupid things like this but most people aren't like that even though you want everyone to think that FedEx makes them that way.

 

[LTFedExer]

With telematics,we are not allowed to even turn on the diad while the truck is in motion(not in park),
they call it recording while idling.The only good thing about this is that when you're on the highway on
the way back to the building,you have to ignore it when they message you.
I'm ashamed to admit it,but I friend'd up last week. I did a resi on a quiet side street.See #9 of the 10 point,
L signal L shoulder L mirror ....forgot about the right mirror and the slight tailswing hit the knob of a fire hydrant which I parked about 3 feet behind.

The way I understand it, FedEx tinkered with the idea of (what UPS calls) telematics. They deemed it to expensive to implement. However, they do go into a powersaver mode and blankout after about 90 seconds of inactivity.
I had an accident back in NY much like yours. Pulled up to a loading dock that had scaffolding up for building repairs. A guy was blocking the dock and I asked if he could move. When I was backing up, I was looking at the RIGHT mirror as to not hit the scaffolding. Little did I notice the guy did not move up enough (on my left) and my tail hit his bumper. Dumb mistake. You can bet a majority of accidents are due to a moment of stupidity.

Seeing as you know "it would have been simple to engineer into the unit" why don't you tell us how you can blank out a powerpad that doesn't even know it is in a vehicle, let alone if the vehicle is moving.

Um, UPS did it. Well, not exactly blank out. But, management would know if you turned it on while your truck wasn't in park.

 

[abadgti]

There was a Ground employee who killed himself when he rear ended another car a few weeks ago in Suffolk, VA

 

[MrFedEx]

The wire that blanked the DADS was connected in some way to the transmission. That's how the DADS blanked when the vehicle was moving. Seeing as you know "it would have been simple to engineer into the unit" why don't you tell us how you can blank out a powerpad that doesn't even know it is in a vehicle, let alone if the vehicle is moving.

What's even simpler is just to make stuff up. It's also pretty insulting of you to constantly claim that so many employees at FedEx value their jobs over their lives. You keep saying how people are so afraid of not making their numbers or losing their job that they repeatedly risk their lives and the lives of others. Yes, there are people that do stupid things like this but most people aren't like that even though you want everyone to think that FedEx makes them that way.

Just about the response I would expect from you. As I said, I'm not an electronics expert, but there are already systems out there that monitor everything that a vehicle does during the course of a day. My friends at AGFS who are RTD's tell me that their new electronic logbook system monitors everything they do, and that several have been warned because the unit informed management that they were exceeding the corporate speed limit of 65 mph. I don't think it would be that difficult to develop a lockout system for the PowerPad. FedEx probably didn't want to spend the money. As LTFedExer said, UPS managed to do it.

If you were to drive into another car and be injured or worse, FedEx might be concerned about you, but their bigger concern would be their costs and liability. I think they've more than shown in recent years that it's all about the money, and nothing else. They might decide to just terminate you, and maybe you could get your job back, or maybe not. I'm sure you've read about the courier who was struck in the side of his walk-in by another vehicle, and basically lost the use of his foot. End result? Terminated. Not his fault, but he had become a liability instead of an asset.

And yes, I think that there are plenty of couriers out there who are so concerned about making goal that it overrides common sense and basic safety. It's pretty easy to get overcome when you're behind, have too many pickups or deliveries, and are constantly being hounded by management to do more in less time. Many do risk their lives and the lives of others by driving too fast, looking at the PowerPad while driving, or trying to make a light. I didn't say "all", and I didn't say "most", but a lot do take risks under mounting pressure. I watch management collapse routes every day that don't need to be collapsed, just to pump-up the numbers and cut hours. Do you think that maybe that pushes people to do things they might not otherwise do if they weren't overloaded?

I'm just saying that it isn't worth it, and that FedEx could and should take measures to ensure that it's impossible to access the PowerPad while in motion. The insane push to reach that 10% profit margin is compromising safety. That's a fact.

 

[quadro]

As I said, I'm not an electronics expert

but you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night?

but there are already systems out there that monitor everything that a vehicle does during the course of a day. My friends at AGFS who are RTD's tell me that their new electronic logbook system monitors everything they do, and that several have been warned because the unit informed management that they were exceeding the corporate speed limit of 65 mph. I don't think it would be that difficult to develop a lockout system for the PowerPad. FedEx probably didn't want to spend the money. As LTFedExer said, UPS managed to do it.

Which is all fine and good except we are talking about the powerpad, not the vehicle. Vehicle monitoring, as you've noted, is easy. Perhaps LTFedExer or another UPS driver can clarify but I'm pretty sure that the telematic device plugs into a base unit in the vehicle much like our trackers used to do. As the powerpad is in no way linked to the vehicle how would the powerpad know that it is even in the vehicle, let alone that the vehicle is moving?

I'm sure you've read about the courier who was struck in the side of his walk-in by another vehicle, and basically lost the use of his foot. End result? Terminated. Not his fault, but he had become a liability instead of an asset.

No I haven't heard about that but I've seen similar situations where a driver loses their DOT qualification. The only ones that I've seen lose their job are the ones that refuse to do anything else. All of them were offered other positions that they could do and most of them chose one of those jobs. If someone loses their DOT qualification or cannot do the courier job for some other medical/physical reason, then they can't do the job. It's not like FedEx can say "we feel bad for you so we'll let you do the job anyway".

I'm just saying that it isn't worth it, and that FedEx could and should take measures to ensure that it's impossible to access the PowerPad while in motion. The insane push to reach that 10% profit margin is compromising safety. That's a fact.

I'm pretty sure that the only way to do this is to have a base unit in the vehicle but that's easy to bypass so even that's not foolproof. And it's not a fact, it's your opinion. No matter how much you'd like people to believe it to be a fact, saying it is doesn't make it so.

 

[MrFedEx]

but you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night?

Which is all fine and good except we are talking about the powerpad, not the vehicle. Vehicle monitoring, as you've noted, is easy. Perhaps LTFedExer or another UPS driver can clarify but I'm pretty sure that the telematic device plugs into a base unit in the vehicle much like our trackers used to do. As the powerpad is in no way linked to the vehicle how would the powerpad know that it is even in the vehicle, let alone that the vehicle is moving?


No I haven't heard about that but I've seen similar situations where a driver loses their DOT qualification. The only ones that I've seen lose their job are the ones that refuse to do anything else. All of them were offered other positions that they could do and most of them chose one of those jobs. If someone loses their DOT qualification or cannot do the courier job for some other medical/physical reason, then they can't do the job. It's not like FedEx can say "we feel bad for you so we'll let you do the job anyway".


I'm pretty sure that the only way to do this is to have a base unit in the vehicle but that's easy to bypass so even that's not foolproof. And it's not a fact, it's your opinion. No matter how much you'd like people to believe it to be a fact, saying it is doesn't make it so.

I don't get the Holiday Inn reference. Enlighten me. On the Powerpad deal, if UPS did it, so can FedEx. The GPS in my smartphone "knows" where I am, and so does the PowerPad, if and when they enable the GPS. Perhaps someone who does know a lot about electronics can explain whether or not a motion sensor can easily be linked between a PowerPad and the vehicle.

You are obviously speculating about the feasibility of doing this, and that's fine. Speculate away....you're quite good at trying to create scenarios wherein FedEx has no liability. How about the push for productivity? Are you saying that safety isn't be compromised by overloading couriers and implicitly threatening their jobs if they don't "perform"? I know at Station 1, everything runs perfectly, but out here in the real world there are managers collapsing routes all the time, even if there is no need to do so. Do you deny that? If an employee (especially a new one) knows that an OLCC is waiting when they don't run at 100% or more, how are they going to react? Maybe they really need the job, so they push the safety envelope, which isn't very forgiving since they're so green. I know, you don't think it's fact, but it is. Perhaps you ought to come out into the field and see how stations really run.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Our pkg cars have a barcode that we scan with our DIAD. This links the DIAD to the car.

 

[quadro]

I don't get the Holiday Inn reference. Enlighten me. On the Powerpad deal, if UPS did it, so can FedEx. The GPS in my smartphone "knows" where I am, and so does the PowerPad, if and when they enable the GPS. Perhaps someone who does know a lot about electronics can explain whether or not a motion sensor can easily be linked between a PowerPad and the vehicle.

You are obviously speculating about the feasibility of doing this, and that's fine. Speculate away....you're quite good at trying to create scenarios wherein FedEx has no liability. How about the push for productivity? Are you saying that safety isn't be compromised by overloading couriers and implicitly threatening their jobs if they don't "perform"? I know at Station 1, everything runs perfectly, but out here in the real world there are managers collapsing routes all the time, even if there is no need to do so. Do you deny that? If an employee (especially a new one) knows that an OLCC is waiting when they don't run at 100% or more, how are they going to react? Maybe they really need the job, so they push the safety envelope, which isn't very forgiving since they're so green. I know, you don't think it's fact, but it is. Perhaps you ought to come out into the field and see how stations really run.

The Holiday Inn reference was a joke. I take it you don't watch much tv.

The GPS in your smartphone knows where you are relative to any other coordinate on earth. It doesn't know whether you are in a building, a car, etc. I would guess that if the GPS were active in the powerpad there may be a way to blank the screen if the powerpad detects that its relative position is changing at or above a predetermined rate. The downside to all this is exactly what you referenced earlier. Once the GPS is active, you can be tracked so employees are going to be mad about that. Either FedEx is the evil monster that tracks you or FedEx is the evil monster that doesn't care about safety because they don't track you.

Safety is only compromised when someone chooses to compromise it. I don't have a problem hitting my goal so if my manager gives me more stops I just get more hours. If my manager tries to give me too many stops I tell him ok but plan on having someone get my outbound as I won't be back in time to make the CTV. I don't compromise my safety end of story. Do some people take risks? Of course they do otherwise there wouldn't be accidents. To say that a lot of people take risks is again an opinion.

As for collapsing routes, sometimes it does make sense, sometimes it doesn't and some managers shouldn't be managers because they don't know how to manage. On that note, some couriers shouldn't be couriers because they don't know how to run a route. It doesn't make anyone a bad person, just not everyone is cut out for every job.

 

[quadro]

Our pkg cars have a barcode that we scan with our DIAD. This links the DIAD to the car.

Does the DIAD blank out while you are driving? If so, is it because the DIAD is inserted into a base in the vehicle?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Does the DIAD blank out while you are driving? If so, is it because the DIAD is inserted into a base in the vehicle?

The DIAD shuts off after 30 seconds of inactivity. It is inserted in to a base; however, there are no wires connected to that base--it shuts off to save the battery. All of our communications with the DIAD are wireless. We can look at the DIAD while driving but doing anything more than that will show up as a "recording while driving".

 

[bumped]

I see your point Dave but it was obvious with OP original post that the OP did not care anything about the people killed but was just using the story to grind his axe. That sort of disgusted me and I reacted to that. I think the rest of the posts in this thread backs up my surmising of the intent of the original post.

PS - I did not see posts 2, 3 and 4 before posting my response to Post 1.

Where is your original post? Why was it deleted?

 

[rocket man]

Very tragic. I cannot begin to imagine what the family is going through.

It was a Ground truck, not Express.

dose it really matter ? ground express what ever the results are. its bad no matter who or what it was. you guys and women go on this site and say oh there pushing us to the limit but then you still run like dogs( just keep talking )this site is getting to be a waist . it could happen to anyone .

 

[TUT]

This is a tragedy and an accident and somehow you go straight to Fred. Yes Fedex drivers, UPS drivers, drivers of all ages and creeds will unfortunately be in tragic accidents. I don't see the correlation of an evil corporation in this one. And I'm anti-corporation to many extents.

 

[Borderline 9.5]

The DIAD shuts off after 30 seconds of inactivity. It is inserted in to a base; however, there are no wires connected to that base--it shuts off to save the battery. All of our communications with the DIAD are wireless. We can look at the DIAD while driving but doing anything more than that will show up as a "recording while driving".

I thought that stop complete was the only thing that showed recording while driving. I'll have to check that.

 

[MrFedEx]

This is a tragedy and an accident and somehow you go straight to Fred. Yes Fedex drivers, UPS drivers, drivers of all ages and creeds will unfortunately be in tragic accidents. I don't see the correlation of an evil corporation in this one. And I'm anti-corporation to many extents.

I do, because it's Memphis driving the insanity with the push for a 10% profit margin.That would be Fred. As you've stated, you're an "industry observer", so you've probably never had a day where your route is supposed to have a maximum of 75 stops, and you have 105. It's raining,(or snowing) and you left the building 45 minutes late because the aircraft or CTV was late. Oh, and we have "Positive Pull" tonight, so you need to be back 30 minutes sooner than usual. You don't get it until you've done it. Nobody does. This particular accident involved a Ground truck, but we've had our share over at Express, and they have also been very serious. I suspect that Ground is also experiencing a push for much higher productivity, which will affect them more because there isn't the same investment in defensive driver training or scrutiny of employees as there is at Express.

And yes, there will always be tragic accidents, but the degree to which couriers are being pushed is contributing to a major decline in safety. Since you seem interested in the industry, do a little background research on Mr. Smith and tell me what you find, OK? You might be surprised. He isn't a good guy.