From Open shop/closed shop to orphans...

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
You have the right to refuse to join a union, even in a closed shop state. All you have to do...is not apply for work at a union shop. Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Taco Bell and virtually all gas stations and convenience stores offer people the opportunities to reap the benefits of a non-union work enviornment

sober

that my dear friend is the essence of discrimination. you cant have or even apply for the job because ....(fill in the blank).

as to the relationship between abortion and adoption, there is none. women that get and abortion dont want some stranger adopting their child, so they kill it off. remember solomon, the two mothers and the single baby?

so those that get an abortion would not give up the baby in the first place. even after some of the botched abortion babies survive, the right of the mother not to have the baby supersedes the right to life of the now born baby, so life support can be withheld from the baby, "allowing" it to die.

ever seen one of these "babies" laying in the bottom of a commode after being so severely "salted" that the "mother" expels them out? and the nursing staff is instructed to take the patient back to the bed and take all the time needed to make her comfortable before going back to empty out the toilet?

on to adoption, something i do know a lot about.

the problem with there not being many to adopt is simple. most newborns in foster care are are well on their way to being teenagers before adoption is available. and not too many people are interested in adopting a 7-12 year old that has been bounced around their whole life.

reason? the feds think that all women that have children care deeply about their offspring, and if given help, will turn their lives around and once again care for their kids. and the whole foster care system is geared to the focus of family preservation, instead of making sure the children get a stable family to live in.

so typically, a child is removed, placed into foster care. as long as the parent shows up for a couple visits a year, typically 20 minutes on the kids birthday, and about that long for christmas, the state can not nor will they proceed with termination proceedings. and even when they do, it usually takes many years to get it finalized, all the time the child is bounced around the system with no roots to hold them anywhere.

the big reason for the problems to is funding. the state gets money from the federal gooberment, therefor having to abide by their rules. after a child reaches 7 years of age, the child is considered a special needs child/adoption, and the state gets a ton more money, and gets that money until the child turns 18, or 23 if still in school. if they adopt the child out before the child turns 7, the state gets nothing. so the emphasis is not the welfare of the child, but instead extra funding for the department and themselves.

that is why, in tennessee, the number of foster children has gone up from 6000 to last i heard, 24000+ in foster care. a great many are multiple siblings and older children, and children with "issues".

so yeah, it is a lot easier to go overseas where a mother living in abject poverty wants more for her child, even if it means giving the child up and never seeing it again.

arnt you sorry you got me started?

d
 

some1else

Banned
now please explain a little more, what new found roles?

here we agree red; they moved from traditional maternal roles (found in almost all cultures in one form or another) to what? it seems that they trying to fill a bastardized version of a western male role-- minus the paternal aspect. and in order to be in the workplace, and to exercise "sexual freedom" (promiscuity) they need to have abortion available or they will be pregnant half the time.
 

sx2700

Banned
here we agree red; they moved from traditional maternal roles (found in almost all cultures in one form or another) to what? it seems that they trying to fill a bastardized version of a western male role-- minus the paternal aspect. and in order to be in the workplace, and to exercise "sexual freedom" (promiscuity) they need to have abortion available or they will be pregnant half the time.

I think you need to find a new church. Are you going to be drinking the kool-aid next week or are you waiting for the spaceship/comet to come pick you up?
 

some1else

Banned
I think you need to find a new church. Are you going to be drinking the kool-aid next week or are you waiting for the spaceship/comet to come pick you up?

i havent been to church since i was about 10; you dont need to be religious to think that killing babies is bad :)
 

upsgrunt

Well-Known Member
Going to church does not make you a Christian anymore than standing in your garage makes you a car, but going to Church and worshiping with other believers, with your heart, is a great step. There are fine lines for everything.
 

sx2700

Banned
i havent been to church since i was about 10; you dont need to be religious to think that killing babies is bad :)

Who's killing babies? They are aborting fetuses, which are not babies. Don't talk down to other people for using tired dialogue when yours is as tired as the rest. What it boils down to is that you have no respect for unions, women, religion, politics, your job, and probably 1000 other things. Later dude........have fun in la la land.
 

rod

Retired 22 years
Jesse Ventura had the best line when some religious zelots where coming down hard on him for saying that religion is just a rubber crutch for weak minded people. He told them if they were truly Christians "they would forgive him". Classic:wink2:
 

sortaisle

Livin the cardboard dream
OK, this thread has gone to ridiculous lengths to prove that people on both sides talk out of their :censored2: on things we have NO personal experience in (us guys anyway). I've seen abortion videos and it is a disgusting practice in general I believe. However there is a place for them I believe. Rape, incest, and the mother/baby survival factor. Abortion as a means of birth control is disgusting in the extreme. Third term abortion is the most ridiculous thing in the world. A babies survival is almost guaranteed these days beyond the third term. So the question becomes when does a fetus become a child? Without a doubt, 99% of all fetuses become babies unless their still born, then it's a corpse.
Does a government have a constitutional right to legislate abortion or life? I think that depends on the country. We have both sides here in our free country. Our voting system is based on majority rules. If you don't like the majority rules system, get more than 50% of the voting population to agree with you and get it legislated. And if you can't do it, and you just can't bear to live with it, go somewhere else.
I don't think in any way shape or form a government can make people abort or keep a child. A government however can make people educated on how abortion works, what their fetuses actually are (a simple it's just a piece of tissue doesn't cut it, it has a heartbeat really early in the first term) and to give the broad range and scope of the options available. A response made out of fear is not a thoroughly made choice. It should be a very conscious decision made with thought.
It's obvious where I stand. I don't have the right to tell people what to do with their bodies, but in good conscious, if I believe they are terminating life for the reason of "it's my body and I'll do what I want with it" I think that the life point of view needs to be said. If they're doing it because of a well rationalized decision is made, then to each their own.

Oh yeah by the way, union shop in Wa.
 

some1else

Banned
What it boils down to is that you have no respect for unions, women, religion, politics, your job, and probably 1000 other things. Later dude........have fun in la la land.

read the thread; i have no issue with unions as far as collective bargaining and representation. its FORCED dues, and then spending much of those dues on unrelated political causes that i have a problem with. i think if the teamsters have a vote tomorrow asking each member
1. get X% of your dues refunded that would have gone to political crap
2. let the union gives those dues to the DNC

which do you think would win?

how about the teamsters give each member the %% back and let them decide which political party or whatever they donate it to (you could give it to orphans since you guys seem so worried about them)

last edit; if the union had RESPECT for its members it would trust them to make the decision of what party/causes are in the best interest and would not force dues collection and decide for them.
 
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dannyboy

From the promised LAND
Who's killing babies? They are aborting fetuses, which are not babies
dude

i guess you have never seen one, or the aftermath of one?

does it make you feel better to give the babies a non human term? so you dont have to deal with reality?

get a grip. go watch one. then post back they are not babies

d
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
here we agree red; they moved from traditional maternal roles (found in almost all cultures in one form or another) to what? it seems that they trying to fill a bastardized version of a western male role-- minus the paternal aspect. and in order to be in the workplace, and to exercise "sexual freedom" (promiscuity) they need to have abortion available or they will be pregnant half the time.
Wow I dont agree with any of what you have said! And to sit there at your compauter and bash woman as you are is totally uncalled for.

Have you ever been with a woman? I sure hope with your strong beliefs that you are waiting for marriage as what the good book preaches.

I on the other hand want to take my wife for a test spin before marriage, you know make sure the glove fits right. See how she handled the curves at high speeds, and make sure whe could back that thing up!
 

some1else

Banned
Wow I dont agree with any of what you have said! And to sit there at your compauter and bash woman as you are is totally uncalled for.
I on the other hand want to take my wife for a test spin before marriage, you know make sure the glove fits right.

nice in less than a page no less :)

btw criticizing the "womens rights" movement and women in general are 2 very different things. many women share the same views as me.

and since you guys cant seem to get over your obsession with my personal life; i will tell you my wife (that i married at 18; yes she was pregnant) shares my views. i would never, ever ask her to go out into the workforce and abandon our child in a "daycare" and she would never do it :happy2:
 
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