From The Chairman: Transition to Ground

[Cactus]

Yah, it's only been decades now.

Times change, things change.

You think Fred and his DC buddies are gonna’ live forever?

 

[MrFedEx]

Seriously? FedEx has what? 60%+ of the NDA market? And that was back when there were more competitors. Since UPS delivers more packages than FedEx by a wide margin daily how can the bulk of their packages not be trucked? Magic carpet? Do you know why there was a Railroad Labor Act passed? At that time the movement of freight was primarily by train. Wildcat strikes were greatly harming the system. The RLA was put in place to protect the integrity of the freight system because it was too important to national security. Because FedEx primarily transported time sensitive packages it was deemed also necessary to place it under the RLA. Of course Fred lobbied for that to protect his bottom line and he certainly abused the privilege. But you get caught up in the weeds of how freight is transported and by whom and does that disqualify FedEx from being under the RLA? But that's not the point of the RLA and FedEx can do things like letting contractors deliver freight because the importance of getting time sensitive freight delivered meets the RLA standard. And as long as lobbied Congressmen are satisfied it meets that standard, with nice campaign contributions to boot, nothing is going to change. It's how business gets done, and it's not a matter of shilling for a company, it's just the reality. Grow up already.

You're as bad as Dano. The RLA was originally intended to protect the US economy from a national railroad strike. This when the railroads were king and moved the vast majority of freight. It dates from 1934, when there was no such thing as Express air service.

Isn't it curious that Fred got his precious RLA Express Carrier Exemption exactly as the IBT was in the midst of an organization drive at Express? This was literally a last minute sweetheart deal inserted into the FAA Reauthorization Act to benefit one person and his company...FedEx.

The opposing argument to mine is that FedEx is an airline. One section of it certainly is, but the vast majority of FedEx employees have zero to do with the "airline". 90% see a CTV or a shuttle, not a plane. You (and Dano) would say that all Express employees are airline employees, so does that now include Ground? After all, "critical", time-sensitive packages need to be moved by airline employees, right? We can't sub them out because they are so vital to the economy.

The structure of Express has fundamentally changed, sir. Instead of having a package move entirely within the Express system, that package is now "subbed-out" to an opco that is also within the FedEx system integrator family of companies. It's an incestuous move that tries to dodge the fact that the RLA exemption is no longer warranted and is, and has always been, false, and a gift to Fred.

To use your flaccid logic, Fred should also be able to give those packages to FedEx Freight, and not lose the RLA shield of protection. In fact, he should be able to sub them out to anyone. But, wait, they are SO important and critical that they had better be handled exclusively by airline employees, right?

UPS duplicated the FedEx system. About the only operational difference is that their main hub is in Louisville, not Memphis. The size of their fleet has zero to do with the debate here, sir. Is a UPS NDA package any less critical than an Express P1 package? Based on your "logic", that time-sensitive package needs to be handled by an airline employee all the way (remember the original rationale for the exemption?).Yet, most NDA is delivered by a UPS Brown driver, along with all the rest of his/her largely trucked or railed freight. They have a few pure air drivers who do the UPS equivalent of FO.

So, I guess Ground now needs to be RLA, and Ground employees need to be re-classified as RLA. But wait!! They're "independent". Not, not at all.

Therein lies the problem. And even though you've left The Plantation, you're still an ideological slave to Fred. Grow up, sir.

 

[zeev]

Times change, things change.

You think Fred and his DC buddies are gonna’ live forever?

There’s a new sheriff in town Bezos is 20 times bigger than Freddy and Freddy has dished him. He owns a newspaper also.

 

[MrFedEx]

There’s a new sheriff in town Bezos is 20 times bigger than Freddy and Freddy has dished him. He owns a newspaper also.

I'd like to see Fred have to sell-out at a fire sale price to Amazon. Bezos isn't just lucky, he's smart. At his first job, after graduating from Princeton, he was charged with creating the algorithims that measured online purchases. Realizing the future potential, he left and created Amazon.

The Right hates Bezos, but he's much more of a self-made man than Fred (born rich) and is way more intelligent in terms of managing his business.

 

[vantexan]

You're as bad as Dano. The RLA was originally intended to protect the US economy from a national railroad strike. This when the railroads were king and moved the vast majority of freight. It dates from 1934, when there was no such thing as Express air service.

Isn't it curious that Fred got his precious RLA Express Carrier Exemption exactly as the IBT was in the midst of an organization drive at Express? This was literally a last minute sweetheart deal inserted into the FAA Reauthorization Act to benefit one person and his company...FedEx.

The opposing argument to mine is that FedEx is an airline. One section of it certainly is, but the vast majority of FedEx employees have zero to do with the "airline". 90% see a CTV or a shuttle, not a plane. You (and Dano) would say that all Express employees are airline employees, so does that now include Ground? After all, "critical", time-sensitive packages need to be moved by airline employees, right? We can't sub them out because they are so vital to the economy.

The structure of Express has fundamentally changed, sir. Instead of having a package move entirely within the Express system, that package is now "subbed-out" to an opco that is also within the FedEx system integrator family of companies. It's an incestuous move that tries to dodge the fact that the RLA exemption is no longer warranted and is, and has always been, false, and a gift to Fred.

To use your flaccid logic, Fred should also be able to give those packages to FedEx Freight, and not lose the RLA shield of protection. In fact, he should be able to sub them out to anyone. But, wait, they are SO important and critical that they had better be handled exclusively by airline employees, right?

UPS duplicated the FedEx system. About the only operational difference is that their main hub is in Louisville, not Memphis. The size of their fleet has zero to do with the debate here, sir. Is a UPS NDA package any less critical than an Express P1 package? Based on your "logic", that time-sensitive package needs to be handled by an airline employee all the way (remember the original rationale for the exemption?).Yet, most NDA is delivered by a UPS Brown driver, along with all the rest of his/her largely trucked or railed freight. They have a few pure air drivers who do the UPS equivalent of FO.

So, I guess Ground now needs to be RLA, and Ground employees need to be re-classified as RLA. But wait!! They're "independent". Not, not at all.

Therein lies the problem. And even though you've left The Plantation, you're still an ideological slave to Fred. Grow up, sir.

And you have it all wrong. The RLA was created to prevent wildcat strikes from local unions. Made it so there was one union that required a national vote. Not on a shop by shop basis.

And what you never seem to consider is it isn't just what Fred wanted. When the FAA bill in 2010 had the attachment to it taking us out of the RLA do you think business owners across the country didn't voice their displeasure with their local Congressman? The reason Bezos went in the direction he did was because shipping takes a real bite out of a company's bottom line. If you think they were rooting for the employees because they liked their local courier you're kidding yourself.

And I never said UPS NDA is less critical than what FedEx is shipping. But most of their freight is trucked, and a union is already in. Their volume allows, with trucking, them to pay considerably more than FedEx. It's why FedEx created a Ground division, more profit.

Just face it, you and I backed the wrong horse way back when. We fell for the propaganda. The difference is I've accepted it for the most part. You want revenge.

 

[MAKAVELI]

And you have it all wrong. The RLA was created to prevent wildcat strikes from local unions. Made it so there was one union that required a national vote. Not on a shop by shop basis.

And what you never seem to consider is it isn't just what Fred wanted. When the FAA bill in 2010 had the attachment to it taking us out of the RLA do you think business owners across the country didn't voice their displeasure with their local Congressman? The reason Bezos went in the direction he did was because shipping takes a real bite out of a company's bottom line. If you think they were rooting for the employees because they liked their local courier you're kidding yourself.

And I never said UPS NDA is less critical than what FedEx is shipping. But most of their freight is trucked, and a union is already in. Their volume allows, with trucking, them to pay considerably more than FedEx. It's why FedEx created a Ground division, more profit.

Just face it, you and I backed the wrong horse way back when. We fell for the propaganda. The difference is I've accepted it for the most part. You want revenge.

Volume wise, UPS isn't that far behind FedEx in Air shipments and because they have a combined system, Air is more profitable than ground for them.

 

[zeev]

Volume wise, UPS isn't that far behind FedEx in Air shipments and because they have a combined system, Air is more profitable than ground for them.

The Amazon move to UPS is a windfall for them their air numbers are way up. They also move air for Amazon that they never actually deliver this is to position freight in their warehouses.

 

[MrFedEx]

And you have it all wrong. The RLA was created to prevent wildcat strikes from local unions. Made it so there was one union that required a national vote. Not on a shop by shop basis.

And what you never seem to consider is it isn't just what Fred wanted. When the FAA bill in 2010 had the attachment to it taking us out of the RLA do you think business owners across the country didn't voice their displeasure with their local Congressman? The reason Bezos went in the direction he did was because shipping takes a real bite out of a company's bottom line. If you think they were rooting for the employees because they liked their local courier you're kidding yourself.

And I never said UPS NDA is less critical than what FedEx is shipping. But most of their freight is trucked, and a union is already in. Their volume allows, with trucking, them to pay considerably more than FedEx. It's why FedEx created a Ground division, more profit.

Just face it, you and I backed the wrong horse way back when. We fell for the propaganda. The difference is I've accepted it for the most part. You want revenge.

Wrong, sir. If your arguments were valid, UPS should also be RLA. Like I said before, the RLA dates from 1934, which is 39 years before Federal Express came into existence. The RAILWAY Labor Act was designed to keep the railroads running and has zero to do with Express. If FedEx stopped dead tomorrow, it would not be a huge hit on the economy. In the 1930's, the railroads moved almost everything, including the US Mail, and trucking was a small player. Air express was almost unheard of, and didn't exist on any sort of scale.

To take a law written in 1934, and morph it into a gift for Fred is some real political gamesmanship. It wasn't fair to the competition and gave Federal Express an illegal advantage. It always made me laugh to see the copy of the RLA hanging on the wall in the stations (it used to be in all of them) and realize what a dated, irrelevant piece of legislation it was.

Yes, I'll always hate Fred and his company.

 

[vantexan]

Wrong, sir. If your arguments were valid, UPS should also be RLA. Like I said before, the RLA dates from 1934, which is 39 years before Federal Express came into existence. The RAILWAY Labor Act was designed to keep the railroads running and has zero to do with Express. If FedEx stopped dead tomorrow, it would not be a huge hit on the economy. In the 1930's, the railroads moved almost everything, including the US Mail, and trucking was a small player. Air express was almost unheard of, and didn't exist on any sort of scale.

To take a law written in 1934, and morph it into a gift for Fred is some real political gamesmanship. It wasn't fair to the competition and gave Federal Express an illegal advantage. It always made me laugh to see the copy of the RLA hanging on the wall in the stations (it used to be in all of them) and realize what a dated, irrelevant piece of legislation it was.

Yes, I'll always hate Fred and his company.

What happened in 1934 doesn't mean the same law can't be applied to a modern company if the government seems it necessary. Your argument is with the government, especially the Dems who could have revoked the RLA status of FedEx. Blaming Fred for trying to save profits by using every tool at his disposal seems myopic on your part. He did what every CEO strives to do, increase profits to pay dividends to shareholders, thus driving up the value of their shares.

 

[bacha29]

Wrong, sir. If your arguments were valid, UPS should also be RLA. Like I said before, the RLA dates from 1934, which is 39 years before Federal Express came into existence. The RAILWAY Labor Act was designed to keep the railroads running and has zero to do with Express. If FedEx stopped dead tomorrow, it would not be a huge hit on the economy. In the 1930's, the railroads moved almost everything, including the US Mail, and trucking was a small player. Air express was almost unheard of, and didn't exist on any sort of scale.

To take a law written in 1934, and morph it into a gift for Fred is some real political gamesmanship. It wasn't fair to the competition and gave Federal Express an illegal advantage. It always made me laugh to see the copy of the RLA hanging on the wall in the stations (it used to be in all of them) and realize what a dated, irrelevant piece of legislation it was.

Yes, I'll always hate Fred and his company.

Good point. So the question going forward is:.....How long can a piece of steam locomotive Depression Era domestic transportation legislation remain applicable in an internet driven global economy?

 

[MrFedEx]

Good point. So the question going forward is:.....How long can a piece of steam locomotive Depression Era domestic transportation legislation remain applicable in an internet driven global economy?

Forever, apparently, of you're Dano, Fred, or vantexan. You've made an additional salient point in that it isn't really applicable to today's transportation market. The railroads of today (Class1's) are almost exclusively cross-country. They've sold off all but the most profitable branch lines and their business model is very different than that of 1934.

 

[MrFedEx]

What happened in 1934 doesn't mean the same law can't be applied to a modern company if the government seems it necessary. Your argument is with the government, especially the Dems who could have revoked the RLA status of FedEx. Blaming Fred for trying to save profits by using every tool at his disposal seems myopic on your part. He did what every CEO strives to do, increase profits to pay dividends to shareholders, thus driving up the value of their shares.

The government serves the 1% like Fred. As always, you blame the Democrats, but Fred gives equally to both sides, ensuring he owns enough of each party to get his way.

Fred has always done everything possible to extract profit from the employees instead of increasing revenue through smart business decisions.

As a conflicted Republican, that's just "good business", but you are a prime example of how Fred's anti-union, anti-employee policies hurt individuals. Yet, you still defend him.

 

[Nolimitz]

VanT was born 100yrs to late. he would have been a shotgun totting labor buster for Rockefeller, Carnegie, Ford, etc.... Oh forgot all the coal mining barons as well. He has zero grasp on history and how it is paying out today.

The government serves the 1% like Fred. As always, you blame the Democrats, but Fred gives equally to both sides, ensuring he owns enough of each party to get his way.

Fred has always done everything possible to extract profit from the employees instead of increasing revenue through smart business decisions.

As a conflicted Republican, that's just "good business", but you are a prime example of how Fred's anti-union, anti-employee policies hurt individuals. Yet, you still defend him.

 

[vantexan]

Volume wise, UPS isn't that far behind FedEx in Air shipments and because they have a combined system, Air is more profitable than ground for them.

Don't they have special drivers delivering air who make less?

 

[vantexan]

VanT was born 100yrs to late. he would have been a shotgun totting labor buster for Rockefeller, Carnegie, Ford, etc.... Oh forgot all the coal mining barons as well. He has zero grasp on history and how it is paying out today.

Actually I read a lot of history. And was for a FedEx union. But you guys only want to hear what you want to hear, don't want anyone pointing out the realities. If you can't be honest with yourselves and work around the obstacles instead of demanding that someone else remove them for you you'll never get ahead.

 

[vantexan]

The government serves the 1% like Fred. As always, you blame the Democrats, but Fred gives equally to both sides, ensuring he owns enough of each party to get his way.

Fred has always done everything possible to extract profit from the employees instead of increasing revenue through smart business decisions.

As a conflicted Republican, that's just "good business", but you are a prime example of how Fred's anti-union, anti-employee policies hurt individuals. Yet, you still defend him.

I'm not defending anyone, just pointing out the reality of the situation. And don't kid yourself, in 2010 the Dems controlled everything. We could have had a union if they chose to give us the right to vote locally for one. It was your party that deserted you. They're in the pocket of Wall Street just like the Republicans if not more so.

 

[MrFedEx]

Don't they have special drivers delivering air who make less?

Yes, they do. I mentioned that already. They drive small vans and mainly do the UPS equivalent of FO.

 

[MrFedEx]

I'm not defending anyone, just pointing out the reality of the situation. And don't kid yourself, in 2010 the Dems controlled everything. We could have had a union if they chose to give us the right to vote locally for one. It was your party that deserted you. They're in the pocket of Wall Street just like the Republicans if not more so.

I don't disagree that both parties are in the pocket of Wall Street. I was really upset when Obama called Fred a "great CEO", or something similar. I know you and other conservatives like to call Obama a Commie, but he was pure centrist with Wall Street.

President Biden will also be sucking up to Wall Street.

 

[Nolimitz]

Actually I read a lot of history. And was for a FedEx union. But you guys only want to hear what you want to hear, don't want anyone pointing out the realities. If you can't be honest with yourselves and work around the obstacles instead of demanding that someone else remove them for you you'll never get ahead.

yah keep rooting for Freddy and wall street. you may never get out of E. Europe at this rate.

 

[MAKAVELI]

Don't they have special drivers delivering air who make less?

They have some Air Drivers but most regular full time drivers del and pu both Air and Ground. And those air driver's are covered under the same Teamsters Contract.