Wow, Itrain has connections...
going through grievance process fired!
- Thread starter ltrain29
- Start date
Wow, Itrain has connections...
MC4YOU2
Wherever I see Trump, it smells like he's Putin.
ltrain29, there must be a lot more here. Every day we all have open packages in our loads that need tape. This one was planted with tamper detecting pink dust and photographed prior to dispatch. It was a sting. How often have I heard of this? Never. Why was this done anyway? What brought us to this point? What alleged prior behavior on your part led up to this? What alleged prior behavior by management led up to this? What particular related tensions existed between you and your management team prior to this incident?
I'll even go so far as to say that I could imagine a scenario where the pink dust might prove intent, if it weren't in a package car where it was subject to to vibration and possibly even falling off a shelf or rolling around so it weren't possible to handle without risking contamination.
What happened to innocent til proven guilty?I had the set up pkg. o.k. i admited that.Now did company see me tamper with pkg.?NO!Was anything missing?NO!Has there been alot of theft on our belt?Absolutely!I know I'm beating a dead horse here but come on no proof.I am innocent and really don't care what anyone say's and the truth will come out!
NHDRVR
Well-Known Member
Not that it works perfectly all of the time but I take a picture on my cell phone (the quality is quite good) and I simply mention it to a Sup when I can. I know it all depends on whether you work for cretens or not but it works for me...
stevetheupsguy
sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
So just by stating this, you're innocent? You're getting upset about us asking questions. Questions can prove you innocent or guilty. You getting upset about these questions gives me the idea that you're not being totally honest. It may just be me, but I sense something going on here, and I don't even have all of the facts in front of me. I would love to hear their side of the story.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Have you gone and filed charges with the NLBR or DOL? This is your nexy step, if your grievance was denied at panel you will have to file charges against UPS and the Teamsters. Get a good attorney that knows labor law, not some fly by night do it all attorney. That is if you are innocent as you say. If there was no proof than you should have at worst case had a deadlock, this is where the union agrees with your version.
Either the Union did not agree with you side, your leaving out a lot of details or you my friend have just been traded like a baseball card. This is where the union agrees to hold up your discipline in exchange for a grievance that they want to win. It happened here all the tie until we got sick of it and voted thise clowns out!
705red i believe your right,we recently had a steward fired for stealing an iphone.The idiot registered it in his name and the company traced it back to him.Now rumors are going around he might be back?Now this is what company is saying they have on me,some drivers were complaining that there pkgs. were not on there truck which were pharmaceuticals.The next day they would be on truck appearing to be taped up.Nothing was missing out of pkgs. but we have had a rash of theft of drugs on our belt.At that point the company started to put the salted pkgs. on the belt which one of them ended up on my truck.This is the pkg. that got damaged and taped up,so i guess the company figured since i had this pkg.which was taped up that i tamperd with the other alleged pkgs.Now the company did'nt have those pkgs. pictured or even review the drivers.So it was all hear say on the companies behalf.Now this was what the company has said,at the panel one union panel member was so confused by the allegations by the company but one was'nt which is why it did'nt dead lock i had 3 union for 1 agaisnt.I was even told by my B.A. if there was anyone i could give up?like snitch on someone to keep my job.DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU GUYS AND GALS?
This is a simple case.
The company suspected him of previous thefts, probably because of high claims, they decided to salt his truck with an "off area" to see if he would tamper with it.
He did, dye got him, he re-wrapped and tried to turn it in.
Anyone notice he DIDNT call the center when discovered to report the off area and dye??
Stupid is as stupid does.
It matters not what his "intention", he got caught.
Heres some advice for you in panel:
Cross your fingers.
The company suspected him of previous thefts, probably because of high claims, they decided to salt his truck with an "off area" to see if he would tamper with it.
He did, dye got him, he re-wrapped and tried to turn it in.
Anyone notice he DIDNT call the center when discovered to report the off area and dye??
Stupid is as stupid does.
It matters not what his "intention", he got caught.
Heres some advice for you in panel:
Cross your fingers.
The problem with your case is really simple. YOU ARE GUILTY.
You admit that you "KNEW" there was a rash of thefts on your belt, then you say, that other drivers were complaining that pkgs were missing, then reappearing taped up the next day.
Then, you see an "off area" pkg in your car, alledgedly damaged in your pkg car, then you get the pkg and begin to "retape" it shut, but the dye pack which is DESIGNED to blow once the "flaps" are completely lifted into the open position, goes off on you, then you simply continue to retape and move along in your day without MAKING CONTACT WITH THE CENTER to report the incident.
You then turn in the "retaped" pkg to the clerk at the end of the day and think you will walk away scott free. The fact that nothing was taken out of the pkg "means" nothing. Clearly, once you got hit with the dye, you wouldnt dare take anything out of it. There goes that part of your defense.
Why didnt you call the center IMMEDIATELY to notify them that a pkg. blew dye on your hands?? This alone shows that you "intended" to conceal your actions. Hazmat proceedures alone dictate that you notify the center should you come into contact with any material leaking from a pkg, yet you failed to follow proceedure. The question then is: WHY?
The company DOES NOT have to prove that you stole anything, despite your whinning about it. All they have to prove is that you "intended" to steal something and they set you up with the opportunity, the pkg and you have the evidence on your hands.
I dont have any sympathy for a thief. I am also unmoved by the fact that you have children. You should have followed proceedure and maintained the highest level of integrity.
Instead, you did the wrong thing. Who knows if your a thief or not but you. Some people do stupid things. Some think they got it all figured out when they dont. You did what most thieves do, they "attempt" to steal.
Its the rush thats the addiction. Your story makes no sense in the manner you told it on this board.
The company placed an "off area" salt in your pkg car, this is how it is done. The rational for it is simple, a thief will "think" they can steal the contents as no one will know its in your truck. If the pkg actually belonged to your route, you would not take the risk as it appears in your edd, but the salt wouldnt.
Why dont you enlighten all of us and tell us what the contents were in this particular pkg? I am sure they will be drugs.
Additionally, I am sure UPS isnt making the stretch that you are responsible for all the other thefts on the belt, but the only thing they have to prove is that you were "dishonest" in the way you handled it.
Based upon your explanations and my history with UPS (20years) and being involved with the Union at an executive level, I too disbelieve you.
I can be emotionless because I am unmoved by the emotions you are seeking. I seek facts and yours just dont add up.
If you know that you opened that pkg and it blew on your hands, you dont have to tell us, let it go, then go home, face your wife and tell her that you are guity and ask for her forgiveness. She is the one that matters, not us on this board.
Find a new job and find your integrity.
stevetheupsguy
sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
I've got to give it to you, TOS, you sure do speak your mind.The problem with your case is really simple. YOU ARE GUILTY.
You admit that you "KNEW" there was a rash of thefts on your belt, then you say, that other drivers were complaining that pkgs were missing, then reappearing taped up the next day.
Then, you see an "off area" pkg in your car, alledgedly damaged in your pkg car, then you get the pkg and begin to "retape" it shut, but the dye pack which is DESIGNED to blow once the "flaps" are completely lifted into the open position, goes off on you, then you simply continue to retape and move along in your day without MAKING CONTACT WITH THE CENTER to report the incident.
You then turn in the "retaped" pkg to the clerk at the end of the day and think you will walk away scott free. The fact that nothing was taken out of the pkg "means" nothing. Clearly, once you got hit with the dye, you wouldnt dare take anything out of it. There goes that part of your defense.
Why didnt you call the center IMMEDIATELY to notify them that a pkg. blew dye on your hands?? This alone shows that you "intended" to conceal your actions. Hazmat proceedures alone dictate that you notify the center should you come into contact with any material leaking from a pkg, yet you failed to follow proceedure. The question then is: WHY?
The company DOES NOT have to prove that you stole anything, despite your whinning about it. All they have to prove is that you "intended" to steal something and they set you up with the opportunity, the pkg and you have the evidence on your hands.
I dont have any sympathy for a thief. I am also unmoved by the fact that you have children. You should have followed proceedure and maintained the highest level of integrity.
Instead, you did the wrong thing. Who knows if your a thief or not but you. Some people do stupid things. Some think they got it all figured out when they dont. You did what most thieves do, they "attempt" to steal.
Its the rush thats the addiction. Your story makes no sense in the manner you told it on this board.
The company placed an "off area" salt in your pkg car, this is how it is done. The rational for it is simple, a thief will "think" they can steal the contents as no one will know its in your truck. If the pkg actually belonged to your route, you would not take the risk as it appears in your edd, but the salt wouldnt.
Why dont you enlighten all of us and tell us what the contents were in this particular pkg? I am sure they will be drugs.
Additionally, I am sure UPS isnt making the stretch that you are responsible for all the other thefts on the belt, but the only thing they have to prove is that you were "dishonest" in the way you handled it.
Based upon your explanations and my history with UPS (20years) and being involved with the Union at an executive level, I too disbelieve you.
I can be emotionless because I am unmoved by the emotions you are seeking. I seek facts and yours just dont add up.
If you know that you opened that pkg and it blew on your hands, you dont have to tell us, let it go, then go home, face your wife and tell her that you are guity and ask for her forgiveness. She is the one that matters, not us on this board.
Find a new job and find your integrity.
TOS the problem wit your assumptions is i had no dye on me and i did call in pkgs.I even sheeted them up as missed like i was instucted.The fact of the matter is i was doing my job and really did'nt think much of the dye,as being there was not much to look at. And to call me a thief were i come from me and you would have problems tough guy
MC4YOU2
Wherever I see Trump, it smells like he's Putin.
One of the problems some of us have with understanding the situation you had is that each center handles misloads with a different twist. For instance here, they used to have us sheet them as missed, as you say you are instructed to, but they quit that way a long time ago. They then wanted us to sheet them as future after calling them in, and now we don't sheet them at all, just call them in and the pm clerk sheets them when we get in at night.
I myself am having doubts that you are so clearly guilty simply because if you did things the way you described above, it would be much the same as the way I would have handled it.
I have seen a new culture of UPS mgmt that believes in terminations as a way of keeping the rest of the crew in line. I'm with Red in thinking there may have been a trade or something of that nature. Your shop steward who stole the iphone sure does not deserve to come back. I would stay in touch with any close friend you have there to see what happens next - like does the iphone stealer get rehired, or does the package pilfering continue after they let you go and so forth. I advise you to contact your state and federal labor authorities and fight this! The evidence as you describe it is very flimsy, and if you were sold out by your union reps, they deserve to be exposed for that as well.
Please keep us posted.
ITRAIN,
Ya ya ya, another wonder boy just doing his "job".
Whether or not you had dye on you or the fact that you point out nothing was missing from the pkg doesnt get you off the hook. So many things are out of order in your story.
You admit "seeing" a dye coming out of the pkg, this would be close to impossible with a standard dye pack. You must have a clear understanding of how the dye packs work. If a pkg is smashed downward, the dye pack will NOT go off. The flaps would have to be opened for this to occur.
Second, when the company places a "salt" in the load, it doesnt place them under pkgs. They are in plain view on a shelf, usually shelf 1 or 2 where the driver can get a first opportunity early in the AM. You want us to believe you were salted with the pkg under a heavier pkg (125lbs) and that just begs the question:
How did the salt pkg get under a 125lb package? If it fell off a shelf onto the pkg car floor, how did the 125lb pkg become airborne then fall onto the salt? The company security makes sure that NO DAMAGE is possible to the pkg when placed into a pkg car. They go to extreme efforts to make the pkg visible so the suspected thief gets a good look at it.
The salts are always placed upfront and not in the rear where they can become damaged.
Once you see the "dye" coming out of the pkg, why didnt you report it as a hazmat? That is our training. You want us to believe that you SEE the DYE and merely place tape over it and let it continue on its path back into the UPS system where it could harm another employee should it be hazardous?
Come on, a 10 year driver and you want to act like this is your first day on the job? Sorry, I dont buy it.
You acknowledge that you know of "thefts" off your belt, and knowledge of other drivers complaining about retaped pkgs, yet, instead of protecting yourself and reporting the pkg with dye coming out, you merely place tape on it, alledgedly record it as missed and send it to the PM Clerk.
Doing your job? Where is it our job to retape pkgs with a foreign substance oozing out of it and sending it along its merry way onto the belt system?
Give me a break.
Do me a favor and dont try to mix words with me, been around too long for the song and dance. You said you called them in? Really, called them in as what? Leaking? or just off areas...after you tried to repair the mess you created.
Too many holes in your story mate. This isnt an original story, its one that unfortunately gets played out in every hub in every state. Someone who loses his integrity long enough to get caught up in a salty ending.
...and before you begin with the fisticuffs, understand that I communicate to you without emotion. I am looking for facts, I am looking and gauging your responses. The truth comes out mostly "between" the lines.
A lie can only walk so far before the truth comes up running behind it.
You first wrote:
"as of three weeks i got walked off they said i tamperd with the intent.i had a fixed up pkg made by security it was misloaded on truck they took pics of pkg early that morning well after an 9 hour day on my industrial route the said pkg got damaged so i taped it up and when i returned to building i put all misloads on belt i had five know i'm going to panel any advice please help."
How do you know the intended Salt was meant for another truck?
"as of three weeks i got walked off they said i tamperd with the intent.i had a fixed up pkg made by security it was misloaded on truck they took pics of pkg early that morning well after an 9 hour day on my industrial route the said pkg got damaged so i taped it up and when i returned to building i put all misloads on belt i had five know i'm going to panel any advice please help."
This is good, for UPS that is. They always take a picture of the location placement and then match that up with the story the driver tells. The photo documents the placement in the am (as you suggest) and I AM POSITIVE its not under a 125 lb pkg as you claim.
"as of three weeks i got walked off they said i tamperd with the intent.i had a fixed up pkg made by security it was misloaded on truck they took pics of pkg early that morning well after an 9 hour day on my industrial route the said pkg got damaged so i taped it up and when i returned to building i put all misloads on belt i had five know i'm going to panel any advice please help."
Really? exactly how did this happen? How did a 125lb pkg end up on this smaller pkg containing drugs? Does gravity cease to exist on your route?
"as of three weeks i got walked off they said i tamperd with the intent.i had a fixed up pkg made by security it was misloaded on truck they took pics of pkg early that morning well after an 9 hour day on my industrial route the said pkg got damaged so i taped it up and when i returned to building i put all misloads on belt i had five know i'm going to panel any advice please help."
This particular pkg you acknowledge had a dye coming out of it, why didnt you take this one pkg into the office and advise a supervisor? You clearly thought you could "hide" it back onto the belt system where no one could trace it back to you, however, being a salt, they knew it was on your truck.
oops, i guess you have to go to plan b., or should I say plan b.s.
Seen dozens of cases like yours. At the end of the day, they were always guilty, some came back, some didnt. Just a matter of sitting quietly in an executive session with the division manager and speaking the truth and asking for a second chance.
All the advice about getting a lawyer and the like will get you nowhere, unless you have 10 grand to put down on a retainer win or lose.
In arbitration, you will go down faster than President Bush's approval ratings.
The company "suspected" you of theft, they documented their efforts and sent you on your way. At the end of the day, the dye pack was "compromised" mysteriously and you merely placed tape on it and placed it back onto the belt system.
Chock this one up to ignorance. You are the reason the company has dye packs in the first place.
When you say you "did your job", think that one over again. Doing your job would have been leaving the pkg alone, calling the center, reporting the dye and taking it into the office in the PM without trying to conceal it.
As for no dye on your hands, well, you had 9 hours to use acetone and remove any trace of the dye long before you got back to the building.
You got caught. Its your intention that is dishonest. Its still a cardinal infraction.
Apologize to your wife and kids and move on. NOBODY traded you for anything, your story just doesnt hold water.
"And to call me a thief were i come from me and you would have problems tough guy" ...Trust me, I would personally walk you out if you were in my building.
klein
Für Meno :)
Actually, in a all fairness, missloaded packages barely went along with me, unless they were hidden in with the bulkstops, such as Walmart. Every driver in our center started 15 - 45 minutes prior off the clock, check, and resort thier load.
I know, we shouldn't be doing that. But, a great presort, makes a great successful run.
If I ever had "salted" parcels, they surely came off my truck, before I even left.
Wish you luck Itrain, it's not the end of the world or your life. Just a job.
I know, we shouldn't be doing that. But, a great presort, makes a great successful run.
If I ever had "salted" parcels, they surely came off my truck, before I even left.
Wish you luck Itrain, it's not the end of the world or your life. Just a job.
grgrcr88
No It's not green grocer!
MC4YOU2
Wherever I see Trump, it smells like he's Putin.
When a driver takes an unauthorized side trip and break to pee or poop, yes, that's considered stealing time, and it's just like stealing a package. When drivers work off the clock or management handles packages in the load/unload, that's what they call teamwork.
