handshake agreement with 705

[tieguy]

It is my understanding:

air drivers can be used for "execption", such as ground/3 day in drop boxes and pickups IF the regular driver has already passed the business by on his/her route.

This is bull, because I.E. can bend these rules by having large business earlier on routes and the regular driver does not go by there after 5pm. This leaves the PM air driver to arrive at 7pm, awaiting 100 ground packages, when the business is closing and management saying "well the regular driver was already there at 3!"

This is one of those issues that seems to fit the having your cake and not eating it scenario. I would think the company and union could hammer out some language where p/t drivers could be used to help shorten the work day of the full time driver.

I guess the union sees a threat here to having a p/t air driver handle ground packages they find in drop boxes but I think its overstated.

 

[705red]

This is one of those issues that seems to fit the having your cake and not eating it scenario. I would think the company and union could hammer out some language where p/t drivers could be used to help shorten the work day of the full time driver.

I guess the union sees a threat here to having a p/t air driver handle ground packages they find in drop boxes but I think its overstated.

Tie the only reason ups does this is because its cheaper to have an air driver at $10.50 compared to a package driver at $28. You bust out a regular route and send that driver home then replace him with cheaper labor. We have the language now, use a ftimer for ftime work.

 

[tieguy]

Tie the only reason ups does this is because its cheaper to have an air driver at $10.50 compared to a package driver at $28. You bust out a regular route and send that driver home then replace him with cheaper labor. We have the language now, use a ftimer for ftime work.

Yep you do and you have the language if the guy works over 9.5. And we keep hearing from all the drivers that are tired of working the big days and yet I don't see any flexibility on the unions part when these jobs could be structured to help our drivers who want the 8 hour days actually get them.

 

[705red]

Yep you do and you have the language if the guy works over 9.5. And we keep hearing from all the drivers that are tired of working the big days and yet I don't see any flexibility on the unions part when these jobs could be structured to help our drivers who want the 8 hour days actually get them.

Its simple hire more drivers, put in more routes, service the customers, you do remember what the s in ups stands for...right?

 

[palatinefred]

What about the grounds in letterboxes? I see A.R.S. and R.S. grounds, labels customers print out and ground shipping document packages in the boxes. It doesn't seem like its only a few customers.

I work as a pm air driver and most routes I have been on there are shippers that close down around 6:30 and have airs and grounds that the air drivers take when they make their air pickup. This is after a FT driver makes a pickup around 3.

I've talked to guys from other centers and they have a lot of grounds and I see other drivers throwing a lot on the bottom belt. I talked to my boss and they talked to theirs and the management say that we're supposed to service the customer and take whatever the shipper has going out.

 

[Bloodybrown]

Its simple hire more drivers, put in more routes, service the customers, you do remember what the s in ups stands for...right?

Red, the mentality of not having flexibility and just hire more drivers and put more routes on the street is what the problem is with your local. You are making the highest wages in the industry and the NON UNION lower paying competitors are eating our lunch do to their lower rates! UPS wants to work with the union to be competitive and take volume from the competition. The thought process you put forward will hurt the company and perhaps the company will be looking to cut wages next contract as well as pensions! If UPS does not make profits there will be little or nothing to offer the teamsters 5 years from now!

 

[705red]

What about the grounds in letterboxes? I see A.R.S. and R.S. grounds, labels customers print out and ground shipping document packages in the boxes. It doesn't seem like its only a few customers.
Ars packages you can pick up, if you have grounds from the same company notify management, if its different companies everyday notify management. They have to fix this problem or pay you $28.20 an hour for picking this up.
I work as a pm air driver and most routes I have been on there are shippers that close down around 6:30 and have airs and grounds that the air drivers take when they make their air pickup. This is after a FT driver makes a pickup around 3.

I've talked to guys from other centers and they have a lot of grounds and I see other drivers throwing a lot on the bottom belt. I talked to my boss and they talked to theirs and the management say that we're supposed to service the customer and take whatever the shipper has going out.

If you are a pm air driver in palatine than you know who i am and you have seen me several times checking your trucks when you came in at night. We have pending grievance for alot of you in palatine that should be resolved real soon. I would call manageent when you arrive at a stop that has grounds and let them tell you to pick up or leave them, than they cant say that they had no knowlege. I will see you monday night docks 2 and 3.

 

[705red]

Red, the mentality of not having flexibility and just hire more drivers and put more routes on the street is what the problem is with your local. You are making the highest wages in the industry and the NON UNION lower paying competitors are eating our lunch do to their lower rates! UPS wants to work with the union to be competitive and take volume from the competition. The thought process you put forward will hurt the company and perhaps the company will be looking to cut wages next contract as well as pensions! If UPS does not make profits there will be little or nothing to offer the teamsters 5 years from now!

I disagree! I file more 9.5 grievances than any other grievances. When you are paying roughly 10 drivers double time every week as we do in my center its cheaper to put on another driver at straight time.

If we allow ptimers to do ftime work where will it stop?

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

This is one of those issues that seems to fit the having your cake and not eating it scenario. I would think the company and union could hammer out some language where p/t drivers could be used to help shorten the work day of the full time driver.

I guess the union sees a threat here to having a p/t air driver handle ground packages they find in drop boxes but I think its overstated.

actually, I was referring to FT combo or air drivers as well as P/T PM.

At the center I worked ( metro Boston area), they use the combo and have them shag misloads (grounds, anything) and deliver them. This is breaking the contract, period. even though the manager lied about it to my face (quite vehemently) every steward and a BA agreed he was lying and having friend/T combo air driver pick up and deliver misloads is NOT exception work.

Also, these same FT air combos go out for their PM pickups (also P/T too) and are picking up grounds in letter boxes and from businesses.

What you say, Tie, has some truth. I cannot deny that (although I've never had a FT driving route) alot of them work too many hours, file 9.5, and want to get done earlier than what they are currently seeing.

Conversely, UPS finding holes in the language and exposing them (thus making air drivers really just regular drivers in reality) a low blow to those workers who's job is cut and dry but the language isn't.

 

[Bloodybrown]

I disagree! I file more 9.5 grievances than any other grievances. When you are paying roughly 10 drivers double time every week as we do in my center its cheaper to put on another driver at straight time.

If we allow ptimers to do ftime work where will it stop?

Red, If the 9.5 grievences are do to over dispatch than you are correct in filing as long as the employee does not want the overtime. I hope your not filing on behalf of the employee just to file are you?? If it's not the dispatch, its the methods!!

I am not going to talk about over and under allowed but a 3 day methods ride will identify if the person is taking advantage of UPS or not. I know that spending to much time in the back of the car and excessive customer contact is a big problem.

If a driver is taking advantage of UPS than that's a problem. I will not tolerate that in my operation. I will not accept someone that files a 9.5 grievence, is obsereved puting on 10-15 additional miles driving up his planned day.

Those people don't work for UPS anymore. You know its funny because the Union alway's want me to give them a break, but the company is suppose to pay evertime they make a mistake, right Red??

You need to understand flexibility = a good relationship that is profitable and equitable for all of us.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Red, If the 9.5 grievences are do to over dispatch than you are correct in filing as long as the employee does not want the overtime. I hope your not filing on behalf of the employee just to file are you?? If it's not the dispatch, its the methods!!

I am not going to talk about over and under allowed but a 3 day methods ride will identify if the person is taking advantage of UPS or not. I know that spending to much time in the back of the car and excessive customer contact is a big problem.

If a driver is taking advantage of UPS than that's a problem. I will not tolerate that in my operation. I will not accept someone that files a 9.5 grievence, is obsereved puting on 10-15 additional miles driving up his planned day.

Those people don't work for UPS anymore. You know its funny because the Union alway's want me to give them a break, but the company is suppose to pay evertime they make a mistake, right Red??

You need to understand flexibility = a good relationship that is profitable and equitable for all of us.

Majority of over 9.5 hours are good, hard working employees that file because they're getting porked with far more work than 8 hours if not 10.

Give readers the benefit of the doubt here, you're sporting an argument that there is no way, if you're a hard-working union guy or gal, like the 90%, you can possibly support. Playing the devils advocate is legitimate, but this is an issue where playing that role simply does not make sense.

You can believe that people filing on the 9.5 most likely are not dogging it and are fed up with UPS abusing them. Take it to the bank.

 

[tieguy]

I disagree! I file morce 9.5 grievances than any other grievances. When you are paying roughly 10 drivers double time every week as we do in my center its cheaper to put on another driver at straight time.

If we allow ptimers to do ftime work where will it stop?

package cars are pretty cheap are they?

 

[Bloodybrown]

Majority of over 9.5 hours are good, hard working employees that file because they're getting porked with far more work than 8 hours if not 10.

Give readers the benefit of the doubt here, you're sporting an argument that there is no way, if you're a hard-working union guy or gal, like the 90%, you can possibly support. Playing the devils advocate is legitimate, but this is an issue where playing that role simply does not make sense.

You can believe that people filing on the 9.5 most likely are not dogging it and are fed up with UPS abusing them. Take it to the bank.

Look I said I have no problem with someone filing if there dispatch is over 9.5 in violation of the contract ( no more than 3 in 5 ) I know, I have many good hard working drivers that work for me. I respect them, they work hard and we work together. I also know some that beg for the o/t. I also know that some minipulate the system. I have been around way to long. I know that when someone files, it's my responsiblity to make sure its legitimate. I have found that a number of drivers don't follow the proper methods causing them to work over 9.5. I have had drivers thanks me for retraining them on the proper methods, so they work smarter not harder. I have also had the dishonest employee's some with a few years of service and some with many. If it is a dispatch problem its my job to fix it or suffer the consequeces of paying ther grievence.

 

[705red]

Red, If the 9.5 grievences are do to over dispatch than you are correct in filing as long as the employee does not want the overtime. I hope your not filing on behalf of the employee just to file are you?? If it's not the dispatch, its the methods!!

I do not union file for 9.5s i do need a grievant for these. Ups gives the bonus to those that they want, everyone knows that. Ask any swing driver, they do toms route and take an hour lunch and make 2 hours of bonus. When they do my route they dont stop moving and wind up 2 hours over. Im not a fan of bonus i believe in a fair days work for a fair days pay, but i will not have a vote taken on it in my center because as you have said some like it.

I am not going to talk about over and under allowed but a 3 day methods ride will identify if the person is taking advantage of UPS or not. I know that spending to much time in the back of the car and excessive customer contact is a big problem.

The problem with 3 day rides as i have seen, is if you ride with the employee and cant find were hes losing time you dont get him a new time study to adjust or even an apology for brow beating him for doing his job right.

If a driver is taking advantage of UPS than that's a problem. I will not tolerate that in my operation. I will not accept someone that files a 9.5 grievence, is obsereved puting on 10-15 additional miles driving up his planned day.

Those people don't work for UPS anymore. You know its funny because the Union alway's want me to give them a break, but the company is suppose to pay evertime they make a mistake, right Red??

If you ride with him and you think hes padding miles do you ask him if this is how he does it everyday? Do you suggest a different way on doing his route? Is he following pas/edd? No you cannot fire him for this without first attempting to correct the problem. He honestly might not know that hes doing anything wrong.
You need to understand flexibility = a good relationship that is profitable and equitable for all of us.

I totally agree but on the other hand you will not profit at the expense of another union employee, as in busting out his route and using an air driver.

 

[705red]

package cars are pretty cheap are they?

Tie this was obvious but i dont know how you missed my point so i will explain it to you. When you a ups manager busts out a route and sends home a driver this means his truck is sitting there empty.

 

[Bloodybrown]

I totally agree but on the other hand you will not profit at the expense of another union employee, as in busting out his route and using an air driver.

I'm please you only file at the request of a grievant and not your glory!

I have got new time studies for certain drivers after they have been rode with. If I can't, I accept his over allowed and dispatch accordingly


When I find someone padding miles it's through an observation. They know if they are guilty. Its easy to prove. Do you think its ok to pad miles??....do you not see how it increases the planned day? ...Do you you understand how upset a management person can get after a driver files a 9.5 and than they are caught padding miles?...... That's dishonest 17(A ) is the article correct?

You know the contract works both ways. I will use an air driver to deliver 30 stops of air off the regular driver to keep him delivering in trace or start him late like 10:00 am to accomadate our customers for late pick ups. Do you think I'm violating the contract when I do that??

I don't use air drivers to bust routes, I use them to do the right thing!!

 

[tourists24]

If someone is purposely padding miles, warn them,,, if that dont work, then fire them

 

[705red]

I'm please you only file at the request of a grievant and not your glory!

I have got new time studies for certain drivers after they have been rode with. If I can't, I accept his over allowed and dispatch accordingly


When I find someone padding miles it's through an observation. They know if they are guilty. Its easy to prove. Do you think its ok to pad miles??....do you not see how it increases the planned day? ...Do you you understand how upset a management person can get after a driver files a 9.5 and than they are caught padding miles?...... That's dishonest 17(A ) is the article correct?

You know the contract works both ways. I will use an air driver to deliver 30 stops of air off the regular driver to keep him delivering in trace or start him late like 10:00 am to accomadate our customers for late pick ups. Do you think I'm violating the contract when I do that??

Absolutely i believe thats a contract violation. If those air stops were on his bid route and you gave that work to a part time air driver i would file on his behalf.
I don't use air drivers to bust routes, I use them to do the right thing!!

Your definition of right is not the same as mine according to the contract.

 

[tieguy]

Tie this was obvious but i dont know how you missed my point so i will explain it to you. When you a ups manager busts out a route and sends home a driver this means his truck is sitting there empty.

Duh uh da okie dokie. So if the manager does not split out routes then its ok to use part time air drivers to pickup and deliver packages.

Back to point one Red. Try to keep up

 

[tieguy]

Your definition of right is not the same as mine according to the contract.

notice Red did not answer the question about a driver padding miles