help needed with lazy co-worker

[705red]

I'm not against unions at all but this situation is one of the negatives that comes with the territory. In most companies a lazy and unproductive (those two words tend to be married to each other) would be shown the door early on. I wish our union would be one of the few to fight this. I worked for a union company before I started at UPS and they didn't tolerate people like that. That union was replaced a few years ago by the Teamsters but the company still doesn't have to tolerate dead beats. Why is it that UPS does?

Whats the average wage for this other company? Im pretty sure its not $8.50 an hour and here lies the problem. You pay better than above average and you will get better than above employees. You pay low wages and its to be expected.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Whats the average wage for this other company? Im pretty sure its not $8.50 an hour and here lies the problem. You pay better than above average and you will get better than above employees. You pay low wages and its to be expected.

Average? Not sure but I know that if I had stayed I'd be making around $17.50/hr by now. I quit there to work at UPS and go to college so that was about 10 years ago. That's actually a pretty good wage around here considering it's a factory job. A new employee there starts out at around $9.00/hr now. That's what I heard anyway. It was much less 10 years ago. I see your point but $8.50-$9.00/hr for a 4 hour job with full-time benefits and college reimbursement should be enough to attract better employees, which it does, but there are plenty of worthless people here none the less. And it seems that we are stuck with them. I think that is the point of this thread.

 

[BrownShark]

Mike Hawk,

you wrote:

Fair days work for a fair days pay mean anything to you?
First you tell him to let nature take its course and do nothing, then you call him stupid for loading the extra truck, a result of him not doing anything. Hypocrisy at it's best. Tell me what would you do in that situation? Let nature take its course and load 5 trucks along with splitting the belt?

OP I would ask to be moved to another position, if you have the seniority you could bump someone off a preferred position. If you can't get moved there is not much you can do, other than sinking to his level and failing at your job.

I am not sure where you apply this logic, but lets address it anyway.

Fair days work for a fair days pay mean anything to you?

How do you apply this to the situation at hand? A fair days work principle is subjective to each individual employee. Performance is determined individually and not collectively.

If one preloader/splitter loads 4 cars and another loads 2 cars, how is this a violation of this principle?

By measurement individually, its the companies job to determine if an employees workpace meets the fair days work principle.

Merely having another employee exceeding anothers performance does not make conflict.

As I said before, this is a company issue, not an employee vs employee issue. The contract protects the employees and not the employees feelings.

While one employee may not like the pace of work of another, "its none of their business."

As I explained, the by-laws of the international and local unions, prohibit any employee from taking action against another union member that results in discipline.

Action then would, could and should be taken against ANY union member that goes out of his way to communicate to the company any information detrimental to another employee.

As for hypocrisy, there is none and I dont know what your referring to, but then again, I dont think you know either.

An employees responsibility is to manage themselves and not the other employees. "snitching" is not part of anyones job description.

If the employee in question is in fact not doing his job to the satisfaction of the company, then its the companies job to make that determination.

Reading between the lines here, I see a conflict of a racial nature.

Using "only" the "syntax" of the original posters words, he is white and the employee he is snitching on is black.

I believe this to be the bigger issue at hand.

I find this more troubling.

In this day and age, race should play no part in the workplace, we are all union brothers and sisters. If the original poster feels that it is unfair to do more work, then the choice is his.

In package, I am able to run my route (a heavy p12) everyday and get done on time, yet, the utility drivers who cover while I am out or conducting union business do my route in 11.5 hours.

Should I run and scream to the managers about performance?

Its none of my business, thats a supervisors job to determine if the ultility drivers are doing a "fair days work", not mine.

You, or any other union member should not encourage this young man to do anything but his job. Focus on himself, if he wants to load 4,5 or 6 cars cause he can, then thats his business.

But if theres another employee loading 2, then its not his position to worry about it, whether he's singing and dancing or not.

If its black people he is concerned with, well get over it, its 2008 people.

Peace

 

[cheryl]

Hey Brown Shark, tone it down. Calling other members names like maroon or little B*tch is not okay. That goes for you and everyone else in this community.

Please review the house rules and TOS. If you need further info or have any questions contact me directly.

 

[randallj]

Brown Shark,
Don't misconstrue the playing off the "race card". I'm not the one who uses it any time the man is confronted. I was just looking for some answers and its hard to give answers without all the information.

 

[BrownShark]

Brown Shark,
Don't misconstrue the playing off the "race card". I'm not the one who uses it any time the man is confronted. I was just looking for some answers and its hard to give answers without all the information.

Randall,

Again, thanks for confirming I was right on the money. Dont think youre being tricky with your words..."syntax" is a way of deciphering ones inner thoughts.

You said:

but I have a co-worker that gets away with murder and a sup that is scared to act for racial reasons.

This sez it all.

These are your thoughts to be deciphered by the readers. I have.

Theres a bigger issue for you than you want to lead on, but I got ya.

Someone else had the brains to post this picking up on your lead:

1)This P.O.S. will eventually get caught with a supervisor/manager that has the BALLS to take him on. What they do here if the old race card gets pulled, is assign an appropriately colored management member to that person.

This was your real intention here and I know it.

Confirming your racial animus was what you were looking for and you got it with this quote.

Does UPS want to acknowledge using this persons quote, that it "assigns" supervisors by color to manage other similar colored persons?

The EEOC would like to hear about this.

Lets end this thread by simply saying that you should mind your own business, and next time you want to make a derogatory thread about a minority, just have the sack to be honest in the first place.

Others may share your views about this man and his race, but its not wise to search for those views on a public forum.

People like me can read guys like you from a hundred miles away.

Peace

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Hopefully this won't come off to whinny, but I have a co-worker that gets away with murder and a sup that is scared to act for racial reasons. I've spoke with the sup with little or no action taking place and are union rep appears to be on his side although i haven't had the oppertunity to speak with her.

Today I nearly lost it as I was informed I got to load one of his trucks. I work the front of the line splitting the belt and already load 4 trucks of my own. Now stuck the 5th truck I am forced to watch him dance and sing while I contemplate murder. What can I do to help him have a speedy departure from the company before I have my ticket?

This is very typical UPS for you.

You have the quandry of whether or not it's acceptable to bring yourself "down" to anothers level, or to confront the situation.

Remember, you set the bar. It isn't the guy next to you that determines how much work, at what difficulty, and how consistent YOU are.

Confronting the slowbie is not going to help. He/she isn't going to change unless they haven't entirely adapted to the UPS regime. I doubt the person in question is a new-hire.

The best thing to do ...chill out and not be unhappy with this person, but see that they aren't foolish to do more work than what the average or even above employee is expected/ contributes and not recieve a generous wage for doing such. =)

 

[1989]

Tell the guy he should get a job he can do...Tell the sup, if you are doing his job, send the guy home. It becomes your business when it affects you.

 

[sx2700]

We had a guy that didn't show up or call for work for 12 working days and still has a job. Why? Because the manager didn't want to do the paper work and have a meeting with his boss.

 

[Storm723]

We have loaders that show up drunk and say it, tell the sup's and mgmnt to off, go to jail for months on end.....

oh and they all still have jobs.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

When an employee isn't doing their share of the work it affects their co-workers and could eventually affect customers. I think its pretty safe to say that when this is happening it is EVERYONE'S business.

 

[Mike Hawk]

Mike Hawk,

you wrote:


I am not sure where you apply this logic, but lets address it anyway.



How do you apply this to the situation at hand? A fair days work principle is subjective to each individual employee. Performance is determined individually and not collectively.
If he is singing and dancing he is not doing work while the guy ahead of him is doing triple the work he is. The guy that is dancing is deliberately not doing his job so this guy has to pick up his slack. NOT FAIR
If one preloader/splitter loads 4 cars and another loads 2 cars, how is this a violation of this principle?
Singing and dancing while loading 2 trucks while someone else busts their ass to load 5 trucks and split the belt for the same money is NOT fair.
By measurement individually, its the companies job to determine if an employees workpace meets the fair days work principle.
Spending your day singing and dancing means you are not working at your capacity.
Merely having another employee exceeding anothers performance does not make conflict.
Exceed is a little bit of an understatement, he is loading 2.5x the trucks AND splitting the belt.
As I said before, this is a company issue, not an employee vs employee issue. The contract protects the employees and not the employees feelings.

While one employee may not like the pace of work of another, "its none of their business."

As I explained, the by-laws of the international and local unions, prohibit any employee from taking action against another union member that results in discipline.

Action then would, could and should be taken against ANY union member that goes out of his way to communicate to the company any information detrimental to another employee.

As for hypocrisy, there is none and I dont know what your referring to, but then again, I dont think you know either.
The blue text is you, telling him to do nothing, then calling him stupid for doing nothing.
Let nature take its course. Your productivity and someone elses is of no significance to anyone, definately not me.

Its of no importance to anyone how many trucks you load, you still get paid by the hour, and if youre dumb enough to tackle extra trucks for the same money as someone doing 25% less, then you get the certificate of stupidity for the week.

An employees responsibility is to manage themselves and not the other employees. "snitching" is not part of anyones job description.

If the employee in question is in fact not doing his job to the satisfaction of the company, then its the companies job to make that determination.

Reading between the lines here, I see a conflict of a racial nature.

Using "only" the "syntax" of the original posters words, he is white and the employee he is snitching on is black.

I believe this to be the bigger issue at hand.

I find this more troubling.

In this day and age, race should play no part in the workplace, we are all union brothers and sisters. If the original poster feels that it is unfair to do more work, then the choice is his.

In package, I am able to run my route (a heavy p12) everyday and get done on time, yet, the utility drivers who cover while I am out or conducting union business do my route in 11.5 hours.
If the driver on the loop next to you did 1/3 the work you do while you were out for 12 hours a day, and got paid the same as you would that be fair? Would you be happy with that situation and work 12 hour days content with letting it slide?
Should I run and scream to the managers about performance?
Is their performance affecting you? Do you have to pick up their slack and not get paid for it?
Its none of my business, thats a supervisors job to determine if the ultility drivers are doing a "fair days work", not mine.

You, or any other union member should not encourage this young man to do anything but his job. Focus on himself, if he wants to load 4,5 or 6 cars cause he can, then thats his business.

But if theres another employee loading 2, then its not his position to worry about it, whether he's singing and dancing or not.

If its black people he is concerned with, well get over it, its 2008 people.

Peace

 

[BrownShark]

Mike Hawk,

Thanks for chimining in on this thread. Lets see if i can reach you with some simple facts, cause' as i read your posts, I see they have escaped your common sense.

Originally Posted by BrownShark
Mike Hawk,

you wrote:


I am not sure where you apply this logic, but lets address it anyway.



How do you apply this to the situation at hand? A fair days work principle is subjective to each individual employee. Performance is determined individually and not collectively.
If he is singing and dancing he is not doing work while the guy ahead of him is doing triple the work he is. The guy that is dancing is deliberately not doing his job so this guy has to pick up his slack. NOT FAIR

Mike, show me in the contract where there is a Article or Addendum defined as the FAIR section??

If one preloader/splitter loads 4 cars and another loads 2 cars, how is this a violation of this principle?
Singing and dancing while loading 2 trucks while someone else busts their ass to load 5 trucks and split the belt for the same money is NOT fair.

Again Mike, please demonstrate to us all, the language that pertains to FAIRNESS to dispatched work?? Also, show me where in the contract where it sez that ANY employee has to "BUST HIS ASS" in the performance of his/her duties??

By measurement individually, its the companies job to determine if an employees workpace meets the fair days work principle.
Spending your day singing and dancing means you are not working at your capacity.

Demonstrate in the contract where it confines an employee or precludes an employee from "being happy while he works"?? How do you measure this employees capacity cause hes singing? The job requires his feet and hands, not his mouth.

Merely having another employee exceeding anothers performance does not make conflict.
Exceed is a little bit of an understatement, he is loading 2.5x the trucks AND splitting the belt.

Show me in the contract where there is an Article or Addendum that specifically states that one employee must meet another employees production standard??

Where is it agreed, that if one employee demonstrates an ability to do more work, than ALL the rest of the employees must now take that on as the new standard for working at UPS or they are just considered slackers??

As for hypocrisy, there is none and I dont know what your referring to, but then again, I dont think you know either.
The blue text is you, telling him to do nothing, then calling him stupid for doing nothing.
Let nature take its course. Your productivity and someone elses is of no significance to anyone, definately not me.

Maybe I need to break this down to 3rd grade level for you and anyone else who doesnt get it?? Letting nature take its course, means to let the company do ITS JOB, if in fact this employee is underperforming, then ITS THE COMPANIES job to figure it out, not some guy with a racial animus for a co-worker?? Measuring one employees performance against another is NOT a standard recognized by the UNION or any ARBITOR and in fact, not even the COMPANY tries to use this argument. The standard is A FAIR DAYS WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS PAY and this is an individual standard, you may not like it, but this is the rule that is agreed to by the UNION and the COMPANY.
Its of no importance to anyone how many trucks you load, you still get paid by the hour, and if youre dumb enough to tackle extra trucks for the same money as someone doing 25% less, then you get the certificate of stupidity for the week.

MIKE, i am not sure what level of intelligence you want me to assertain from your thoughts on this paragraph, but its a really simple one. We all get paid the same money per hour per classification, There is an old saying in this business..."NOT ALL THAT IS FAIR IS EQUAL".

There are many intangibles at UPS, maybe in this case, the guy in questions loads 2 cars that are pure bulk and he has to brick load these cars and they may be P12's whereas the white superman crybaby is loading 4 P7's with pure residential low bulk cars...

In this scenario, there would be a time difference in completion of work.

Dont be so quick to get your 'AH HA" moment on limited information from some white kid with an attitude towards a black kid.

You MUST factor in all intangibles that the original poster left out of his original post. I believe I got to the bottom line of his complaint already, maybe you missed the point?


An employees responsibility is to manage themselves and not the other employees. "snitching" is not part of anyones job description.

If the employee in question is in fact not doing his job to the satisfaction of the company, then its the companies job to make that determination.

Reading between the lines here, I see a conflict of a racial nature.

Using "only" the "syntax" of the original posters words, he is white and the employee he is snitching on is black.

I believe this to be the bigger issue at hand.

I find this more troubling.

In this day and age, race should play no part in the workplace, we are all union brothers and sisters. If the original poster feels that it is unfair to do more work, then the choice is his.

In package, I am able to run my route (a heavy p12) everyday and get done on time, yet, the utility drivers who cover while I am out or conducting union business do my route in 11.5 hours.
If the driver on the loop next to you did 1/3 the work you do while you were out for 12 hours a day, and got paid the same as you would that be fair? Would you be happy with that situation and work 12 hour days content with letting it slide?

Well, again, a simple concept here, 1/3rd the work wouldnt be an 8 hour day, and seeing that I get paid $28.81 an hour and $43.21 in OT, Ill take the 12 hours and mind my own business. It is no concern of mine what the guy next to me does during his business day. Every route is different.

I rely on the contract to keep "my" dispatch honest and concerning myself with anothers dispatch is foolish and stupid. Lending yourself to this logic is a bad habit to start.

Should I run and scream to the managers about performance?
Is their performance affecting you? Do you have to pick up their slack and not get paid for it?

Mike, at this point, I am not sure if you understand the concept at UPS?? Let me try to clue you in a little better, the contract has protections and agreements in it.

The contract protects an Employees Rights and not an Employees EMOTIONS. Everything you posted was EMOTION. "its not fair, its not fair, its not fair" is all you said over and over. As I asked you MIKE, show me the FAIR section of the contract.

Youre starting to sound like a jealous 8yr old girl running down the hallway cause' her brother got an ice cream and she didnt.

Mike, this job is difficult and hard, everyone knows this, but we cant complicate the job by doing the work of the supervisors. Its the supervisors at UPS who are the only ones who can determine whether an employee is doing the job as agreed. If the company has in place WEAK managers and we know they have them (tieguy) and they allow employees to underperform and it affects the company, then the COMPANY has to remove the manager.

The employees are not allowed to supplement the management of the center.

The contract has a specific agreement in it (National) that sez: "at no time shall an hourly employee monitor another hourly employee".

This is clear, your emotions are not.

Let me suggest you get a kleenex and pick up a good book, how about the contract?

The overall point of the original poster was to "lash out" at a minority co-worker and your encouragement of it doesnt lend itself to teaching this young man a bigger lesson.

Let me teach you a lesson and ask that YOU should mind your own business and put your emotions back into the tearducts and GET THE BIGGER PICTURE.


Peace

 

[sx2700]

Wow Brownshark, nice double standard you got going there. You keep squawking about the contract, then you say it is the company's responsibility to do something about the slackers, but the minute they do you'll be wanting the union to do everything they possibly can to make sure the dead weight keeps it's job. I'm one of those guys that goes in and works to get done so I can get out of there to spend time with my family while others take advantage and do the very minimum, and it irritates me, not because they are stealing time from the company but because they are stealing my time. But I go in and do my job and keep my mouth shut, because like you said it isn't my job to make them do their job and if management isn't going to fix the problems then all I can do is come on here and vent. And before you get all hot and bothered, just remember that other people have their opinions just like you have yours.

 

[BrownShark]

Wow Brownshark, nice double standard you got going there. You keep squawking about the contract, then you say it is the company's responsibility to do something about the slackers, but the minute they do you'll be wanting the union to do everything they possibly can to make sure the dead weight keeps it's job. I'm one of those guys that goes in and works to get done so I can get out of there to spend time with my family while others take advantage and do the very minimum, and it irritates me, not because they are stealing time from the company but because they are stealing my time. But I go in and do my job and keep my mouth shut, because like you said it isn't my job to make them do their job and if management isn't going to fix the problems then all I can do is come on here and vent. And before you get all hot and bothered, just remember that other people have their opinions just like you have yours.

SX2700,

Again, the simple word is DYNAMIC.

No matter how it turns out, the Dynamic is for the company to take action to remove underperforming employees, and the Union to prove otherwise.

There is no hypocrisy here, this is the DYNAMIC that we ALL have to work under.

The difference SX2700, is that no matter what happens, we all need to mind our own business.

But this is not the case in this thread.

There was a hidden agenda involved. This agenda is the issue here.

There is no double standard involved here. This is the way business is conducted at UPS.

Take whatever shot you want at me, the reality remains the same as the contract is the contract.

Peace

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

This could all be settled if the union would stop protecting losers. In the end I think we'd have a stronger union. When a co-worker purposely slacks off on the job isn't that a slap in the face to his fellow Teamster "brother?" I think yes. Ratting them out she be done only after a face to face first. If the employee still slacks off then go ahead and move up the chain of command because at that point it would seem that the whole union brotherhood thing doesn't mean squat to the lazy employee anyway.

 

[tieguy]

Im pretty sure you wouldnt fire the steward for violence in the work place, right tie?

You supervise a feeder department, what about 50 guys each doing 2 to 5 stops a day. Go manage a package center with 50 drivers doing at least 150 stops a piece per day then talk to me about pride in workmanship.

now red you couldn't cut it in feeders so who should be telling whom?

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Bottom line, a fair days work at a fair days pay is only subject to ones capacity. Everyone has their own niche, own personality and own pace and it is no one's business to rat someone else out or to tell someone to hurry up. Mind your own business and work as directed. Joke about it with coworkers. Complain to a steward. It's your peroggative if you load 5 trucks, not the slacker next to you.

 

[tieguy]

Bottom line, a fair days work at a fair days pay is only subject to ones capacity. Everyone has their own niche, own personality and own pace and it is no one's business to rat someone else out or to tell someone to hurry up. Mind your own business and work as directed. Joke about it with coworkers. Complain to a steward. It's your peroggative if you load 5 trucks, not the slacker next to you.

I love these type of discussions. You keep telling people to mind their own business and you have done everything as a union you can to avoid being held to performance standards. Your union provides labor to businesses. Your teamsters should market the best labor available and pride in workmanship but it does not. If it did you could actually market yourself into more members . And thus union membership continues to decline. There is no pride in workmanship with the teamsters union. You don't tell your people to pick each other up to make teamster labor look good. You tell your people tough , performance is the bosses problem. The stewards should be pulling the slackers off to the side and telling them to stop making the teamsters look so bad. You don't see it. You see the stewards file harrassment grievances for the slug instead.

 

[sx2700]

I love these type of discussions. You keep telling people to mind their own business and you have done everything as a union you can to avoid being held to performance standards. Your union provides labor to businesses. Your teamsters should market the best labor available and pride in workmanship but it does not. If it did you could actually market yourself into more members . And thus union membership continues to decline. There is no pride in workmanship with the teamsters union. You don't tell your people to pick each other up to make teamster labor look good. You tell your people tough , performance is the bosses problem. The stewards should be pulling the slackers off to the side and telling them to stop making the teamsters look so bad. You don't see it. You see the stewards file harrassment grievances for the slug instead.

Well said Tie. I pay my membership dues just like the slacker next to me but he'll be protect by what ever means it takes while I get more work piled on me because I want to get done and get home rather than milk the clock.