High Planned Day in The UK

[satellitedriver]

"I know you've never seen the area, but you'll know it after today."

I had to laugh at this.
It reminded me when I was a troubleshooter at a coal mine.
A $80 million drag line was malfunctioning. I had a general idea of where to start the diagnosis and requested the blueprints.
None could be found for that section.
The head engineer over the entire mine (West Point grad) pulled me aside and said, " By the time you take it apart and find the problem you will know how to put it back together."
I (with a ten man crew) took it apart and found the problem and put everything back to working order.
The man hour cost I was dealing with was $1,000.00 a minute.
Two days later the machine was running.
If I would have had a blueprint, I could have had it up and running in one 12hr shift.
So, when I came to UPS and was sent out blind, with no maps, as a rookie swing driver, I always thought about Capt. West's advice on problem solving.

 

[CBUK]

Jetset

Sounds like the UK management are all in cahoots. That sounds like the sort of thing my management say to me all the time.

I can recall a few years ago having a massive row with my sup and at one point told him, " this I'm going home. I've had enough of this".

His reply to me was.

"Well, if you're going that way can you take these 5 stops instead you'll really be helping us out" and he handed me 5 deliveries in the village where I lived at the time.

It lightened the mood slightly and I got on with my day and made it round. Its often hard to explain to them how things can go wrong every now and again. I reckon they think there is some sort of parting of the waves when we go out on road.

 

[jetset]

cbuk,
Great to see other people from the uk jumping on the board.
how about a thread about the uk.
hows intagration gone in your centre.
I hear rumours your centre is overmanned.
any truth in them rumours.

 

[CBUK]

Integration started in September o7 and I was unlucky enough to be one of the test routes for the integration team.

Imagine my surprise when I arrived on the first day to find a pallet truck on my van. It wasn't for me. It was a package for me to deliver!!!!!

When I started at UPS in 98 we were trying to lose customers that shipped crap freight. We now seem to be welcoming them all back with open arms(or should that be ass cheeks).

We are now fully integrated and that has resulted in losing large delivery areas. I am not high enough up the pecking order to reel off stats and facts to anyone but I beleive we were running nearly 60 routes before integration and are now only running 30. We do seem to have an awful lot of spare drivers and I have been told that we are now officially over staffed and our current manager has been told that he cannot replace any drivers that leave.

This was backed up for me by a friend who left last year to work for Parcelnet (a rival firm). He was told that he would be welcome back if things didn't work out. He has now been told there are no jobs available.

Presumably our Ctr Manager will have targets set by his management. I have in the past been sent out with 100 delivery stops daily but at the moment I am delivering 60-80 and not really struggling.

My personal opinion is that the centre has been relooped to increase plan days on paper when the reality is that I could do another 10-15 stops if I wasn't covering such a large area. I am not the only driver that thinks our current loops are verging on the ridiculous.

We have had a few time study teams at our centre in the past but I would be embaressed to go out with one at the moment.

I dont relish the old struggle when we were obviously undermanned but I bet my old manager is pretty well pissed that he didnt get any help form upper management when we were all crying out for it.

What centre are you based at Jetset?

Is integration good or bad for you?

I think this is whats known as a period of transition. I am an old boy at my centre and the new starters probably dont realise how good they have it. That could have serious repercussions in the future.

 

[jetset]

CBUK

We are also fully intragrated and like you are overstaffed.
I think management got such a kicking and were so under staffed in the past they are all making sure they have to many staff.
Whats union activity like at your place at ours its really quite.
Notice John Boddle is amember of brown cafe i think hes a jimmy hoffa and is selling us up the river.

Jetset

 

[CBUK]

We have a few union members at my centre but I dont get involved with it myself.

They are all mouth and no action. I dont think they will ever be happy.


They are responsible for me earning less now than I was 5 years ago. Still, its fairer for everyone now that we dont have bonus related pay.

 

[John Arnold]

CBUK, spoke with Labour Manager today concerning steward's report that Bury was over-manned. He said that you were one driver under manned??
Selling us up the river??
Have you guys tried uniteatups.org.uk? We've only just kicked it off but we are hoping that it will develop. Let us know what you think about union in UK and what you want to see. We are really struggling with integration, Tamworth and OSP issues. But please remember the union is not just a few guys trying to do a difficult job it's a bit more than that.

 

[A concerned UK Employee]

John,
Total stops divided by target Stops equals driver on road requirement.
Add 15 percent to cover sickness and holidays equals driver head count.
Long serving drivers who USED to get bonus know how to read the companies
reports. There are several centres overmanned.
Yet You have to check with the companies Labour manager!!
Your out of touch with your members.
When did you last sit for election?
The union is doing nothing ,
When did you last attend a meeting held by a shop steward?
The union is doing nothing.

 

[CBUK]

I never said I thought I was being sold up the river and my comment on pay was not aimed as an insult to anybody at UPS or the Union.

I have worked under 5 managers and one acting manager in my time at UPS and have never ever felt that I could not approach any of them if I had a problem at work. Therefore I have never seen the need to be a member of the Union.

The job that I do puts me under pressure and sometimes I feel that maybe my immediate supervisor may have sold me short with the organisation on the preload. I have little time in my AM time to make an issue of it and over the years I have learnt to channel my aggression into getting the job done and getting a fair days pay for a fair days work.

I believe that I work as hard as the next man and my stats back up my opinion.

I have struggled of late learning a new round but I have been backed up with support if I have asked for it and this has always been the case.

The Union has a few members and The last time they had a push for new members I attended the meeting which in my opinion used scare tactics to sign up people like myself.

It took a step back from me to see that I don't really need union assistance when I have management that keep an open door policy with its staff. A lot of drivers I speak to feel hard done by every day of the week but they keep coming back to work every day. Its always good to have a bitch and moan about your day in the canteen over a coffee and its better to do it with someone who can relate to what you are talking about.

I only see UPS through my own eyes and I cant comment on the company nationally. Can somebody explain the merits of me joining the Union? I dont want to discount it but I have faith in my own ability to compete with whatever comes my way.

 

[John Arnold]

It was Jetset who referred to selling up or down the river.
My response concerning understaffed at Bury was to demonstrate what contradictory statements you can get from UPS. You said that a friend was told there were no vacancies, yet UPS Labour Manager says that there is!! (this question was raised concerning a completely different issue which is of a confidential nature but does show to me that UPS will give different answers to meet different situations)

Reasons for joining a union....
It has taken years of negotiations to achieve the levels of pay we have at UPS. UPS now believe that those rates are way above the market rate and are trying to remedy that by introducing OSPs. You will not find an OSP paying rates anywhere near UPS rates. Germany was in exactly the same situation in 1995. In 1995 it was a 100% Brown operation, then they began to introduce OSPs (Outside Service Providers or sub-contractors) there is now a 50:50 split between Brown and OSPs. This could not happen in the US, although UPS would dearly like to use sub-contractors like their competitors, because of the strength of the Teamsters and their agreements. We are trying to get an agreement in the UK to control OSPs but because of our weak position this is proving to be difficult. If you value your T&Cs at UPS this is one reason to join the union and help us to protect them, because they are clearly under threat from the spread of sub-contracting. But of course you are free to continue as a freeloader and accept whatever benefits come your way from union negotiations. They do not fall out of the sky and UPS are not a philanthropic organisation.

 

[John Arnold]

John,
Total stops divided by target Stops equals driver on road requirement.
Add 15 percent to cover sickness and holidays equals driver head count.
Long serving drivers who USED to get bonus know how to read the companies
reports. There are several centres overmanned.
Yet You have to check with the companies Labour manager!!
Your out of touch with your members.
When did you last sit for election?
The union is doing nothing ,
When did you last attend a meeting held by a shop steward?
The union is doing nothing.

I am elected every two years under Union rule. I am prepared to attend a meeting anywhere at any time. The union is not some thing "out there", it can only be as strong as its membership allows. Are you a union member? If so go and look at the forums there.

 

[david cassin]

we have the cwu (communications workers union) here in ireland and i have to say they are a good union they are in 10 years and we given ups a run for their money from time to time..i have seen many uk managers/district managers come and go .
of course not everyone is in it,you get the licks that sit on the fence.
best thing we ever did was join and we are 10 years plus going,i am on committee from the start..of course ups did everything in its power to stop its..has the uk holiday allowance gone up to 27 days can ye let me know please..thanks david

 

[None union member]

. But of course you are free to continue as a freeloader and accept whatever benefits come your way from union negotiations. They do not fall out of the sky and UPS are not a philanthropic organisation.

What free to continue being paid less than I was 6 years ago because the union negotiated to scrap bonus, hardly free loading.
The union is weak not because of lack of membership but because of lack of leadership.

Shop stewards are happy to disapear to attend union meetings offsite but unwilling to call meeting in their own branch. No doubt using the excuse of lack of attendees. Well stand at the gate , walk the belts, talk to the people drum up support.
Find a cause instead of banging the same old drum,
what is a reasonable working day?
why do we not have a 8.5 hour greivance procedure like the US?
When is a warehouse to cold to work a preload?
Why are Preloaders paid so low?


You say you are happy to attend any meetings, when did you last attend one?
How many have you been asked to attend in the last 6 months?
Can you tell us the dates of the last 5 branches that have held meetings in the UK?

I also remember the scaremongering mentioned by CBUK I prefer to call it doing something.

we need leadership , we need action , we need it now.

 

[jetset]

It was Jetset who referred to selling up or down the river.

Let me start with an apology, John it is my belief that the union needs to do more. Born out of frustration I made a claim that you were selling us up the river. A claim that I cannot back with any evidence, for this comment I appologise.

I am no longer a union member, not because I wish to freeload, in this regard I agree with other posters the union do not push forward with my best interest at heart. (Our bonus was lost to gain a better rate for feeder drivers.).

The rate to join the union is too high. The benefits so few.

Membership needs to be reviewed. If membership is to increase, the cost to steward twenty members can not cost that much more than it does to steward one, so perhaps a sliding scale at each centre for membership. We don't submit sales leads because we get nothing from it, I would encourage others to join the union if my monthly dues reduced as membership grew.

Leadership is weak.

The union need to meet with members and find the leader of the pack, many shop stewards are not able to fill the role, many could pick an argument in an empty room, but lack the common sense to put forward an argument of any worth.
A shop steward will argue why a member of staff shouldn't receive warnings for continued absence without consideration as to the impact of that continued absence on other members of staff (some of who will be union members) yet ignore unsafe practice within an operation.
Rush to the aid of the driver facing action for refusing to complete a collection yet arrving back at 1630, a collection no doubt covered by another driver (who is also a union member) yet ignore poor working conditions.
Many Shop Stewards are just in it for the perks to them (as mentioned by a previous poster).

The union have lost touch.

When did you last spend time doing the role or are all your opinions now third hand. Have you or the shop stewards ever worked a sort to gain an insight to the roles. To gain the trust of the sort staff.

The union needs to be worth the membership , I have to trust my shop steward and I have to believe my best interests are being addressed.
None of this criteria is currently met.
Visiting the website you mentioned I see nothing to relight my fire.

This is the first real thread with real meat , it is obvious more people than I feel let down by the union but feel little point in signing up.

UPS will now be looking for the cost savings brought about by purchasing Lynx, the next few months should be intresting.

 

[believer]

as a management person i went out yesterday in a town i had never delivered before followed the methods and achieved 10 stops per hour - easy - do as you are taught not as you think

 

[CBUK]

But of course you are free to continue as a freeloader and accept whatever benefits come your way from union negotiations. They do not fall out of the sky and UPS are not a philanthropic organisation.

Accept the benefits that come my way? I am still waiting for them. That is exactly the same line used by the Union Rep that visited our centre. His line in fact suggested that the Union was looking to vote towards offering a higher pay rate to union members and they were researching that as a possibility. A good way to frighten people into signing up but something that has never come to fruition.

Its interesting to read the comments of others on here and proof indeed that the union is weak. It looks like I need to keep hold of that £10 a month. I reckon I need every penny of my wages.

 

[CBUK]

as a management person i went out yesterday in a town i had never delivered before followed the methods and achieved 10 stops per hour - easy - do as you are taught not as you think

Is this relavant? 10 stops an hour at our centre and they would be asking you why you cant do 15.

 

[jetset]

as a management person i went out yesterday in a town i had never delivered before followed the methods and achieved 10 stops per hour - easy - do as you are taught not as you think

And your point is....
10 SPH in a city centre . big deal.
I can type 95 words a minute, read, write and bully people if required
does that qualify me to do your job or am I missing some skills.
its arrogant pr**ks like yourself who make me want to give less and less everyday.

 

[John Arnold]

Hi David,

Yes, we got the 27 days for 10 years service in 2005.
Glad to hear that the CWU is giving UPS a hard time. They will walk all over you if you let them; unfortunately that appears to be the situation in the Uk at the moment.
John

 

[John Arnold]

Yes, then do something about it!