How about a 40.0 list instead of a 9.5 list...

[no_map_needed]

In reality it would have to be a 45 hour list but in reality would actually have to be a 55 hour list in reality

 

[MyTripisCut]

Everyone complaining about 8.5 hour days and that you make enough money sends a bad message to the company that you already make enough and don’t need raises or pension contributions. This isn’t rocket science. It’s not always black and white, like I want 40 hours a week for $85K. We bargain for our wage, saying you make enough is just not smart.

 

[noril]

Everyone complaining about 8.5 hour days and that you make enough money sends a bad message to the company that you already make enough and don’t need raises or pension contributions. This isn’t rocket science. It’s not always black and white, like I want 40 hours a week for $85K. We bargain for our wage, saying you make enough is just not smart.

You bring up some interesting points, but let it be known that I have also saved some of the money I have made. UPSers who live more fugally and save are the more "dangerous" ones who need to be especially "feared" because we can easily handle going without a few paychecks if a strike should occur. Anyway, I may have digressed...

Now raises are needed just to keep up with inflation and the increasing cost of living... so the adequate 85K of 2023 will not be the same adequate 85K of 2028.

 

[noril]

Eight hours has indeed always been what most consider a normal work week.

But anybody who came to this job thinking ever going to work just 8 hours, was definitely not pay attention.

I think everyone is aware that they are getting into a more than 40 hour job. The dollar signs overrule the hesitation in the beginning & up to the point where a decision has to be made on what is more important, money or family/self.

The family/ self people are advocating for 8 hour days, knowing it will probably never happen. They like the job & want to stick around but will leave in the end.

I don't think one should be so pessimistic in the middle of contract negotiations.

Instead, and, I believe I have been mistakenly accused at times of being a "company man" for my approach, we should make the case for why reducing overtime is good for the company in addition to the workers who don't want the overtime. The best argument in my mind is the cost of paying overworked people who got injured for therapy and to sit at home hoping to recover rather than be on the road picking up and delivering packages. If the company sees that 40 hour weeks are a good business decision that saves money, that should be very persuasive.

I recognize driving for UPS can't be a 9 to guaranteed out the door at 5 job, and I accept there will be spikes in volume where people have to put in overtime, but I firmly believe there can be far better work-life balance protections for full timers than what exists now with the current 9.5 protections.

 

[Thebrownblob]

I don't think one should be so pessimistic in the middle of contract negotiations.

Instead, and, I believe I have been mistakenly accused at times of being a "company man" for my approach, we should make the case for why reducing overtime is good for the company in addition to the workers who don't want the overtime. The best argument in my mind is the cost of paying overworked people who got injured for therapy and to sit at home hoping to recover rather than be on the road picking up and delivering packages.

If the company sees that 40 hour weeks are a good business decision that saves money, that should be very persuasive.

Except for the large amount of people that don’t want just 40 hours. Like I just explain to you many are getting just slightly over 40 taking days off and getting code 5, and are starting to panic and volunteering for Saturday like they never did before. Those boats, big trucks, and house payments must be adding up.

 

[Wilson1397]

Except for the large amount of people that don’t want just 40 hours. Like I just explain to you many are getting just slightly over 40 taking days off and getting code 5, and are starting to panic and volunteering for Saturday like they never did before. Those boats, big trucks, and house payments must be adding up.

Too many people base their spending on 50 hour weeks instead of budgeting for 40 or less.

 

[Thebrownblob]

You bring up some interesting points, but let it be known that I have also saved some of the money I have made. UPSers who live more fugally and save are the more "dangerous" ones who need to be especially "feared" because we can easily handle going without a few paychecks if a strike should occur. Anyway, I may have digressed...

Now raises are needed just to keep up with inflation and the increasing cost of living... so the adequate 85K of 2023 will not be the same adequate 85K of 2028.

Sadly, I’m going to guess those of us who have saved dangerously are the minority.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Too many people base their spending on 50 hour weeks instead of budgeting for 40 or less.

You are preaching to the choir I have always lived off my 40. Almost everything over that has been saved or invested as well as every raise. No car payments since 2006 a house with less than 24 months left to pay on it and a very large strike fund that I save at the start of every contract.

 

[Wilson1397]

You are preaching to the choir I have always lived off my 40. Almost everything over that has been saved or invested as well as every raise. No car payments since 2006 a house with less than 24 months left to pay on it and a very large strike fund that I save at the start of every contract.

We sound very familiar in that aspect except my house was built in 2004 and paid off in 2013.

 

[noril]

Except for the large amount of people that don’t want just 40 hours. Like I just explain to you many are getting just slightly over 40 taking days off and getting code 5, and are starting to panic and volunteering for Saturday like they never did before. Those boats, big trucks, and house payments must be adding up.

That's why I figure on my proposed 40.0 list being completely optional. If someone CHOOSES to try to get 59.5 hours on the clock every week, I have no problem with that.

Package volume may have dipped some at the moment, but we should also keep in mind what things will look like when it recovers.

 

[FromOffTheStreets]

Well, I’m privy to everybody’s hours in my center there is no one working over 95 more than a couple times a week. Matter fact now people are starting to volunteer for Saturday because they’re not getting any hours.
And I will reiterate, with the rare exception, the people who leave and go to Feeders have absolutely no problem working 11 or 12 hours every day. They love it. There is no eight hour days. There is no 95 in feeders.
What are boils down to is people don’t like the kind of work they’re doing most likely because they’re running their nuts off and are too afraid to actually follow the methods and stick it back in Managements face.

Followed me last week and did a safety audit and DR audit on me. They were agitated they couldn’t find anything wrong with either because I follow the methods a lot of those packages went to the back door because there was no safe place to DR.

I would have so much fun if they put 200 stops on me they would be pulling their hair out.

We're arguing for an 8 hour day, not a 9.4 or a 9 or even an 8.5.
It's funny all the new people including myself (8 years in now) would go as fast as possible to get off @ 5ish....until they realized that doing so only earned them more work. After that the trailer gets hitched up & they wonder why you aren't going fast anymore. Haha

Like I've always told fellow upsers, if I got home by 530 every night I'd stay here til retirement time. Knowing that will never happen, I've got about 5 more years until it's time to get out

 

[FromOffTheStreets]

I don't drink beer. I work 50-55 hours a week on average and I never stated I wanted a part time job. My father is quite masculine and not gay, he has a son. I'm a bit perplexed I had to explain these things to you.

See original statement. You need to get laid. I can feel the tension through the text.

I'm guessing the guy is about 5'8", abused roids most of his life & is thrice divorced. Just in seeing how he interacts with people

 

[MyTripisCut]

We're arguing for an 8 hour day, not a 9.4 or a 9 or even an 8.5.
It's funny all the new people including myself (8 years in now) would go as fast as possible to get off @ 5ish....until they realized that doing so only earned them more work. After that the trailer gets hitched up & they wonder why you aren't going fast anymore. Haha

Like I've always told fellow upsers, if I got home by 530 every night I'd stay here til retirement time. Knowing that will never happen, I've got about 5 more years until it's time to get out

Thanks for 13 the years of pension contributions!

 

[HavenoEDD]

Just curious, was there some benefit to keeping people just under as opposed to a bit over 40 hours per week?

I am not one to make an issue of 39.5 hours versus 40.5 hours in some week, personally.

Benefits and pension contributions started at 40 hours. Worked less than that and you were considered part time and lost all the perks of a thankless job. The company saved a ton based on policies, overhead etc making shareholders very rich…hence how Tome was a calculated hire at UPS. Has used the same blueprint and would have gotten away with so much more if she could.

 

[Fido]

Just curious, was there some benefit to keeping people just under as opposed to a bit over 40 hours per week?

I am not one to make an issue of 39.5 hours versus 40.5 hours in some week, personally.

30-32+ hours is considered a full time work position.

 

[Wally]

As I understand things, one of the big issues in these current contract negotiations is excessive overtime, and that is something many drivers have had as a big complaint about for at least the past 23 years which have been my time at UPS. I like the slogan "work to live, not live to work." I don't sense the 9.5 list has been effective enough in reducing this unwanted overtime. People keep filing grievances and UPS keeps paying out, but I figure that getting some extra cash is really not what a person who is seeking a better work-life balance truly wants...

A solution that I am informally proposing here is to create a new 40.0 list which is something you would sign on to as a full time driver if you want to work right around 40 hours per week, but instead of being paid extra money the way one is when winning a 9.5 grievance, filing a grievance for over 40.0 would instead earn one an extra, unpaid day off once the amount of overtime you have worked adds up to over 8 hours. A certain reasonable amount of time would be given to the company to schedule the extra day off, so as to not mess up the operation for UPS. Just like the 9.5 list is suspended for peak season, it would be the same with this 40.0 list...and maybe a few additional times as well, such as the days leading up to Valentines Day and Mothers' Day where there is some spike in volume that we need "all hands on deck" and shouldn't blame UPS for the momentary worker shortage.

To address right away some objections people may have to my idea, I have heard it argued that it is less costly for UPS to pay overtime and even overtime grievances than it is to hire additional drivers because of the value of the benefits that are given over and above the wages. However, one reason this thinking never made much sense to me is because UPS has a huge number of part-timers who are receiving a benefits package beyond their wages that is not much less than that of full-timers. If a big goal should be keeping the number of people who are getting benefits as low as possible, then why isn't UPS trying to minimize the number of part-timers by encouraging people to voluntarily work 2 split shifts and reduce the overall head count and thereby benefits paid?

Additionally and more importantly, I strongly suspect that driver injury, which is also costly as well as dreadful for the injured, occurs at the level it does as a result of all the overtime full time package car drivers have typically had to put in all throughout the year. I believe that when people are fatigued and stretched beyond their healthy limits is when injuries are far more likely to occur despite all the best training on safety and proper work methods. As best I remember from recently looking at the package car driver rosters at the hub out of which I work, approximately 10% of the people on the lists are out longer term due to some injury. So even if hiring more drivers means there will be significant extra costs with the additional benefits that have to be paid, in addition to doing the right thing ethically, if I was a gambling man, I would wager that UPS management would be pleasantly surprised by a net financial savings that would come about through reduced employee injury and fewer disability payments as a result of getting full-timers working right around the standard 40-hour work week made possible through the hiring of the additional drivers, and giving everyone the off time to rest and recover properly in order to stay safe and in good health.

I recognize that in some cases there are significant advantages to having someone work more than 8 hours on the typical day. Perhaps the best solution in such cases might be having someone work four, ten hour, not necessarily all consecutive days or some other schedule where one still works right around a 40-hour week.

As a disclaimer, with what I have proposed above, I speak for no one other than myself, but I do hope to win other people over like I tried to do with another thread I started not too long ago. That thread generated what I thought was some good discussion. I hope the same happens here, and ideally reaches some people who are involved in making the big decisions...

Overtime is a part of doing business at UPS, always has, always will. Just automatically pay double time past 9.5. Stop all the grievance bull sheetrock.

 

[FromOffTheStreets]

Thanks for 13 the years of pension contributions!

Your welcome man!

 

[noril]

Overtime is a part of doing business at UPS, always has, always will. Just automatically pay double time past 9.5. Stop all the grievance bull sheetrock.

While overtime for every full-timer, whether he wants it or not, might remain, I don't think it HAS to. That's in contrast to long haul truckers who will always HAVE to be away from home for days at a time due to the nature of the job. Time will tell what ends up happening at UPS...

 

[Over70irregs]

Just pension payments for all hours worked will take care of it. I thought we already agreed this was the “ONLY” way? Everything else is a distraction…….

 

[noril]

We're arguing for an 8 hour day, not a 9.4 or a 9 or even an 8.5.
It's funny all the new people including myself (8 years in now) would go as fast as possible to get off @ 5ish....until they realized that doing so only earned them more work. After that the trailer gets hitched up & they wonder why you aren't going fast anymore. Haha

Like I've always told fellow upsers, if I got home by 530 every night I'd stay here til retirement time. Knowing that will never happen, I've got about 5 more years until it's time to get out

I am sorry to read something like this because you seen like a decent man and a good worker who is perfectly willing to put in an honest days work for an honest days pay, but I believe I understand why you feel the way you do.

Your experience is a big part of why I have chosen to remain a part-time air driver. The hourly wage is $7.585 less and the part timer pension isn't as good, but I may have made a good trade off since I am planning to stay for at least a total of 30 years.